Would ID-supporters support a non-Christian teaching an intelligent design classes?

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judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
8,515
3
81
I think if they are going to teach any religion in school it should start with Brahma, Tloquenahuaque, Kuk, The Great Spirit, Gaia, Allah, Jehovah, hell even Zeus and Ve, and should be taught by an agnostic.
 

ShadesOfGrey

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2005
1,523
0
0
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
Again, you are trying to attack me for an argument I've never made.
Again, you are trying to duck a simple question by accusing me of attacking you. I did NOT attack you. I just asked if you if you knew the correct, scientific definition of the word, THEORY. It would help if you want anyone to understand what you mean.
I don't care if you want to teach evolution, it just always has to be taught in the proper context. Example being that in my public highschool it was taught as FACT not as theory.
And once again, your statement suggests you don't know the definition of the word. The more you dodge and BS, the more I'm beginning to suspect you don't know the meaning of the word, FACT, either. :p

Stop trying to duck the question. It isn't that hard to find. Clue -- Google is your friend. :laugh:

Again, you are trying to attack an argument I never made. It seems to be how you operate and I'm not going to play your little game.
Try reading what I have posted. If you do, you'll see that what you are trying to argue has nothing to do with my position or statements.

Seems to me your infatuation with "balls" has driven you NUTS! :laugh:
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
I think the biggest issue at play here is that evolution is presented as fact and no other theory is presented at all. I would image that most ID supporters would be happy with ID being offered along side evolution if they were both presented as theory. But I'm not on the ID wagon. I don't think another option has to be presented. I'd be happy if they would present evolution as a theory and note that there are alternative theories and that none have been proven.

Please give an example of ANY OTHER theory that can take the place of the theory of evolution, that is backed up by any observable, testable, and scientifically accepted evidence.

The whole theory of evolution that is being taught does not even fit that criteria. It is not ovservable, and it is not testable.

Now if you want to cut evolution into smaller pieces and talk about micro and macro and physical and psycological etc evolution in separate parts, then you can say that SOME of those are actually observable and testable. But the theory of evolution as a whole that is currently being debated is NOT observable or testable.
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
Originally posted by: Ronstang
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

I think you actually understand this one, based on your ID bandwagon comment, but a theory in science is not the same as a layman's theory, like ID, which would be better described as conjecture.

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

I wouldn't have a problem with another theory being presented, assuming it is an actual scientific theory. Not just creationism repackaged as a pseudo-science.

Exactly, Intelligent Design is nothing more then religious people trying to package their beliefs into someting resembling a scientific theory so it can be taught in school. Show me the science or keep your beliefs out of the schools....it really is that simple.

Why do you people say crap like that? You have no clue what Intelligent Design even is. You are just making assumptions. Get your facts straight before thinking that it is just creationism rebadged.
 

Ronstang

Lifer
Jul 8, 2000
12,493
18
81
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: Ronstang
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

I think you actually understand this one, based on your ID bandwagon comment, but a theory in science is not the same as a layman's theory, like ID, which would be better described as conjecture.

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

I wouldn't have a problem with another theory being presented, assuming it is an actual scientific theory. Not just creationism repackaged as a pseudo-science.

Exactly, Intelligent Design is nothing more then religious people trying to package their beliefs into someting resembling a scientific theory so it can be taught in school. Show me the science or keep your beliefs out of the schools....it really is that simple.

Why do you people say crap like that? You have no clue what Intelligent Design even is. You are just making assumptions. Get your facts straight before thinking that it is just creationism rebadged.

It is what it is. I don't care if you are religious as that is your right and causes me no problems but ID is in no way science. Show me any kind of scientific data that can be tested or observed and does not involve "blind faith" and I will be more than happy to incorporate the new knowledge into what I believe. Somehow I doubt you can do that. ID is a mixture of evolution and creationism and there is no verifiable proof of how creationism works except faith. I need a little more than faith to go on. I'm not insulting your beliefs or saying they are not true but there simply is no proof to justify creationism except faith and conjecture. If ID had any legs why is it something completely new that seems to pop up when religion is under attack on all fronts in this country(something which I don't agree with even though I am not personally religious)?

 

JustAnAverageGuy

Diamond Member
Aug 1, 2003
9,057
0
76
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Why do you people say crap like that? You have no clue what Intelligent Design even is. You are just making assumptions. Get your facts straight before thinking that it is just creationism rebadged.

Then do explain what the difference is.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,353
10,876
136
The funniest thing about this whole debate is that its a non-issue.. Darwin himself was very careful to note that the theory of evolution does not exclude any knowledge based on new scientific information which is somthing that is added almost daily... if somthing like ID was ever to have some evidence discovered to support it, it would defacto be incorporated into said theory, and wouldn't replace it at all.
Intelligent design as it exists today in the intellectual back-waters of this country is based on ignorance & a desire to see religion taught as "fact" in public schools... its fine to tell children that some people disagree with the theory of evolution based on their relegion, but teaching it as science is just wrong... also its potentially a
very "slippery slope" with a possibility of the law saying everyones religious beliefs take precedence over science being taught in schools.
 

Malfeas

Senior member
Apr 27, 2005
829
0
76
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
Again, you are trying to attack me for an argument I've never made.
Again, you are trying to duck a simple question by accusing me of attacking you. I did NOT attack you. I just asked if you if you knew the correct, scientific definition of the word, THEORY. It would help if you want anyone to understand what you mean.
I don't care if you want to teach evolution, it just always has to be taught in the proper context. Example being that in my public highschool it was taught as FACT not as theory.
And once again, your statement suggests you don't know the definition of the word. The more you dodge and BS, the more I'm beginning to suspect you don't know the meaning of the word, FACT, either. :p

Stop trying to duck the question. It isn't that hard to find. Clue -- Google is your friend. :laugh:

Again, you are trying to attack an argument I never made. It seems to be how you operate and I'm not going to play your little game.
Try reading what I have posted. If you do, you'll see that what you are trying to argue has nothing to do with my position or statements.

Seems to me your infatuation with "balls" has driven you NUTS! :laugh:


ShadesOfGrey: He is not attacking your arguement per se, but instead your apparent misuse of the words THEORY and FACT. The way you used them demonstrates your lack of their meaning, he was trying to correct that.

Here is a link to a website that gives a simple explanation for these words,

http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/factandtheory.html

and this one helps too:

www.dictionary.com

 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Why do you people say crap like that? You have no clue what Intelligent Design even is. You are just making assumptions. Get your facts straight before thinking that it is just creationism rebadged.

Then do explain what the difference is.

Creationism says that the world was created in essentially 6 days (I believe). It is not specified if those are actual earth days, but the point is that *POOF* there was deer. *POOF* there was swordfish. *POOF* there was man. *POOF* there were dinosaurs.

Intelligent Design says that evolution may be correct. But since there is so much complexity, yet so much harmony, there must be some sort of higher power at work. It does not say that this higher power is God necessarily, but it is a possibility. So some sort of higher power helped to organize the start of the universe and guide it to be what it is today. Of course the religious groups believe that the higher power is God, but God is not a fundamental part of Intelligent Design as an actaul theory. If it were taught in schools, God would not be a part of the theory. It mearly allows people to keep an open mind that evolution is not the only thing out there and evolution does not explain everything. There is still more.

As you can see, there is a HUGE difference between the two. Please keep this in mind when debating.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,058
70
91
ShadesOfGrey -- You don't seem to get it. I never attacked you or your so called "argument." I asked you to post what you understood the definition of THEORY was because your posts suggest you do not know. In fact, if you knew what a THEORY is, you'd probably change your own statements.

It's ridiculous that you didn't just take the time to look it up, but since you're google challenged, here it is:
the·o·ry

n. pl. the·o·ries

1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
It takes only one demonstrable contradiction to disprove a theory. It goes back to your statement:
It was not taught to me as a theory at the public highschool I went to, it and the "big bang" theory were taught as "fact".
It means that evolution and the "big bang" are currently the most credible explanations for their relative subjects, and there are no credible contradictions in either.

It also relates to the topic of this thread, ID, which, under the scientific definition, does NOT merit being considered as a THEORY because the concepts presented by "creationism," "creation science" or "intelligent design" are contradicted by the physical evidence of the history of this planet and the observed universe. They fail out of the gate as a scientific hypothesis or proposition.

You can weasel and wriggle and squirm all you want. You can call me names to your heart's content. That still doesn't let you off the hook for addressing the fact that a lot of what you've said in this thread is meaningless in the context of the true definition of the word, THEORY. :roll:
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Originally posted by: XZeroII

Creationism says that the world was created in essentially 6 days (I believe). It is not specified if those are actual earth days, but the point is that *POOF* there was deer. *POOF* there was swordfish. *POOF* there was man. *POOF* there were dinosaurs.

Intelligent Design says that evolution may be correct. But since there is so much complexity, yet so much harmony, there must be some sort of higher power at work. It does not say that this higher power is God necessarily, but it is a possibility. So some sort of higher power helped to organize the start of the universe and guide it to be what it is today. Of course the religious groups believe that the higher power is God, but God is not a fundamental part of Intelligent Design as an actaul theory. If it were taught in schools, God would not be a part of the theory. It mearly allows people to keep an open mind that evolution is not the only thing out there and evolution does not explain everything. There is still more.

As you can see, there is a HUGE difference between the two. Please keep this in mind when debating.

But unfortunately, ID is not an "actual theory" in any way. It makes no testable predictions, and cannot therefore be subjected to any sort of testing.
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
Originally posted by: Captante
The funniest thing about this whole debate is that its a non-issue.. Darwin himself was very careful to note that the theory of evolution does not exclude any knowledge based on new scientific information which is somthing that is added almost daily... if somthing like ID was ever to have some evidence discovered to support it, it would defacto be incorporated into said theory, and wouldn't replace it at all.
Intelligent design as it exists today in the intellectual back-waters of this country is based on ignorance & a desire to see religion taught as "fact" in public schools... its fine to tell children that some people disagree with the theory of evolution based on their relegion, but teaching it as science is just wrong... also its potentially a
very "slippery slope" with a possibility of the law saying everyones religious beliefs take precedence over science being taught in schools.

Please read my explanation of ID. I think that you, just like 90% of the people here, don't even know what it is.
 

ShadesOfGrey

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2005
1,523
0
0
Originally posted by: Harvey
ShadesOfGrey -- You don't seem to get it. I never attacked you or your so called "arguement." I asked you to post what you understood the definition of THEORY was because your posts suggest you do not know. In fact, if you knew what a THEORY is, you'd probably change your own statements.

It's ridiculous that you didn't just take the time to look it up, but since you're google challenged, here it is:
n. pl. the·o·ries

1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
It takes only one demonstrable contradiction to disprove a theory. It goes back to your statement:
It was not taught to me as a theory at the public highschool I went to, it and the "big bang" theory were taught as "fact".
It means that evolution and the "big bang" are currently the most credible explanations for their relative subjects, and there are no credible contradictions in either.

It also relates to the topic of this thread, ID, which, under the scientific definition, does NOT merit being considered as a THEORY because the concepts presented by "creationism," "creation science" or "intelligent design" are contradicted by the physical evidence of the history of this planet and the observed universe. They fail out of the gate as a scientific hypothesis or proposition.

You can weasel and wriggle and squirm all you want. You can call me names to your heart's content. That still doesn't let you off the hook for addressing the fact that a lot of what you've said in this thread is meaningless in the context of the true definition of the word, THEORY. :roll:

Your post suggests you don't know the definition of a scientific theory. Do you?

Clue -- Evolution and the "big bang" meet the criteria. "Intelligent Design" does not.

Clue -- The correct answer shatters your argument.

If you don't know, just cop to it, and I'll give you the answer in a follow up post. :cool:

That was your original post to mine. It has nothing to do with what I posted. I never suggested ID met anything, nor did I say evolution did not. What I did say was that things need to be taught in their correct context because they were not in my school.

So again, take your overzealous attack attitude elsewhere because it's quite tiresome to have to deal with your twisted attacks over and over again. If you could stick to what is said instead of jumping to conclusions and trying to argue against things that weren't said then I wouldn't have a problem with you but it seems you enjoy trying to make a scene and explode into rediculous arguments.
 

Agnostos Insania

Golden Member
Oct 29, 2005
1,207
0
0
Originally posted by: XZeroII
As you can see, there is a HUGE difference between the two. Please keep this in mind when debating.

So basically they remove the word "God" and replace it with "Intelligent Designer", as EatSpam said earlier in the thread. Either way it's saying that the science we know is wrong because we don't understand all of it yet.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,058
70
91
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
Originally posted by: Harvey
ShadesOfGrey -- You don't seem to get it. I never attacked you or your so called "argument." I asked you to post what you understood the definition of THEORY was because your posts suggest you do not know. In fact, if you knew what a THEORY is, you'd probably change your own statements.

It's ridiculous that you didn't just take the time to look it up, but since you're google challenged, here it is:
n. pl. the·o·ries

1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
It takes only one demonstrable contradiction to disprove a theory. It goes back to your statement:
It was not taught to me as a theory at the public highschool I went to, it and the "big bang" theory were taught as "fact".
It means that evolution and the "big bang" are currently the most credible explanations for their relative subjects, and there are no credible contradictions in either.

It also relates to the topic of this thread, ID, which, under the scientific definition, does NOT merit being considered as a THEORY because the concepts presented by "creationism," "creation science" or "intelligent design" are contradicted by the physical evidence of the history of this planet and the observed universe. They fail out of the gate as a scientific hypothesis or proposition.

You can weasel and wriggle and squirm all you want. You can call me names to your heart's content. That still doesn't let you off the hook for addressing the fact that a lot of what you've said in this thread is meaningless in the context of the true definition of the word, THEORY. :roll:

Your post suggests you don't know the definition of a scientific theory. Do you?

Clue -- Evolution and the "big bang" meet the criteria. "Intelligent Design" does not.

Clue -- The correct answer shatters your argument.

If you don't know, just cop to it, and I'll give you the answer in a follow up post. :cool:

That was your original post to mine. It has nothing to do with what I posted. I never suggested ID met anything, nor did I say evolution did not. What I did say was that things need to be taught in their correct context because they were not in my school.

So again, take your overzealous attack attitude elsewhere because it's quite tiresome to have to deal with your twisted attacks over and over again. If you could stick to what is said instead of jumping to conclusions and trying to argue against things that weren't said then I wouldn't have a problem with you but it seems you enjoy trying to make a scene and explode into rediculous arguments.
Oh hell! Now, I have to include your entire ridiculous post just to keep the context. OK. Here goes...

That was NOT my original reply to your posts, and my initial reply to you has everything to do with two of your posts. You said:
I think the biggest issue at play here is that evolution is presented as fact and no other theory is presented at all. I would image that most ID supporters would be happy with ID being offered along side evolution if they were both presented as theory. But I'm not on the ID wagon. I don't think another option has to be presented. I'd be happy if they would present evolution as a theory and note that there are alternative theories and that none have been proven.
You also posted:
It was not taught to me as a theory at the public highschool I went to, it and the "big bang" theory were taught as "fact". But I did have a pretty freaky Bio teacher. My point is that it needs to be presented in a fashion that doesn't suggest it is "fact" or "proven".
My response to those statements was to question your understanding of the word, THEORY, and I asked what you meant by the word.

Since then, all you've done is dodge the issue and attack me, neither of which addresses the question or sheds any further light on what you mean by the word.

It's all getting way to repetitious, and by now, I'm sure you won't answer. You toss out neocon talking garbage and flames like they were Halloween candy, but it's just as obvious you never have facts to back them. All you can do is repeat your evasive weasel words and name calling. YOU'RE ALL MOUTH! :laugh:
 

ShadesOfGrey

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2005
1,523
0
0
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
Originally posted by: Harvey
ShadesOfGrey -- You don't seem to get it. I never attacked you or your so called "arguement." I asked you to post what you understood the definition of THEORY was because your posts suggest you do not know. In fact, if you knew what a THEORY is, you'd probably change your own statements.

It's ridiculous that you didn't just take the time to look it up, but since you're google challenged, here it is:
n. pl. the·o·ries

1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
It takes only one demonstrable contradiction to disprove a theory. It goes back to your statement:
It was not taught to me as a theory at the public highschool I went to, it and the "big bang" theory were taught as "fact".
It means that evolution and the "big bang" are currently the most credible explanations for their relative subjects, and there are no credible contradictions in either.

It also relates to the topic of this thread, ID, which, under the scientific definition, does NOT merit being considered as a THEORY because the concepts presented by "creationism," "creation science" or "intelligent design" are contradicted by the physical evidence of the history of this planet and the observed universe. They fail out of the gate as a scientific hypothesis or proposition.

You can weasel and wriggle and squirm all you want. You can call me names to your heart's content. That still doesn't let you off the hook for addressing the fact that a lot of what you've said in this thread is meaningless in the context of the true definition of the word, THEORY. :roll:

Your post suggests you don't know the definition of a scientific theory. Do you?

Clue -- Evolution and the "big bang" meet the criteria. "Intelligent Design" does not.

Clue -- The correct answer shatters your argument.

If you don't know, just cop to it, and I'll give you the answer in a follow up post. :cool:

That was your original post to mine. It has nothing to do with what I posted. I never suggested ID met anything, nor did I say evolution did not. What I did say was that things need to be taught in their correct context because they were not in my school.

So again, take your overzealous attack attitude elsewhere because it's quite tiresome to have to deal with your twisted attacks over and over again. If you could stick to what is said instead of jumping to conclusions and trying to argue against things that weren't said then I wouldn't have a problem with you but it seems you enjoy trying to make a scene and explode into rediculous arguments.
Oh hell! Now, I have to include your entire ridiculous post just to keep the context. OK. Here goes...

1. My initial reply to you has everything to do with two of your posts. You said:
I think the biggest issue at play here is that evolution is presented as fact and no other theory is presented at all. I would image that most ID supporters would be happy with ID being offered along side evolution if they were both presented as theory. But I'm not on the ID wagon. I don't think another option has to be presented. I'd be happy if they would present evolution as a theory and note that there are alternative theories and that none have been proven.
You also posted:
It was not taught to me as a theory at the public highschool I went to, it and the "big bang" theory were taught as "fact". But I did have a pretty freaky Bio teacher. My point is that it needs to be presented in a fashion that doesn't suggest it is "fact" or "proven".
My response to those statements was to question your understanding of the word, THEORY, and I asked what you meant by the word.

Since then, all you've done is dodge the issue and attack me, neither of which addresses the question or sheds any further light on what you mean by the word.

It's all getting way to repetitious, and by now, I'm sure you won't answer. You toss out neocon talking garbage and flames like they were Halloween candy, but it's just as obvious you never have facts to back them. All you can do is repeat your evasive weasle words and name calling. YOU'RE ALL MOUTH! :laugh:

And you obviously have trouble reading. Your post had nothing to do with what I put forward. I was not arguing about Evolution or ID. I said it needs to be taught the correct way, and the correct way is not presenting it as FACT. Big Bang is not a FACT. While broadly Evolution as a concept is fact, it is not FACT that we evolved from primordial
ooze like my teacher made us parrot(if we wanted a good grade). THAT is what my post was about. I did not say ID had to be taught or even that alternative theories need to be expressed but the way our school taught it, was as if everything was known and absolute fact.

Now again, take your overzealous argument routine and shove it. I have nothing to prove as your little argument has nothing to do with my position or posts.
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
Originally posted by: Agnostos Insania
Originally posted by: XZeroII
As you can see, there is a HUGE difference between the two. Please keep this in mind when debating.

So basically they remove the word "God" and replace it with "Intelligent Designer", as EatSpam said earlier in the thread. Either way it's saying that the science we know is wrong because we don't understand all of it yet.

Yes. And we shouldn't be teaching people that evolution IS THE WAY IT IS. When I was in HS, that is the way we were taught. No critical thinking.
 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
4,507
0
0
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
Originally posted by: Harvey
ShadesOfGrey -- You don't seem to get it. I never attacked you or your so called "arguement." I asked you to post what you understood the definition of THEORY was because your posts suggest you do not know. In fact, if you knew what a THEORY is, you'd probably change your own statements.

It's ridiculous that you didn't just take the time to look it up, but since you're google challenged, here it is:
n. pl. the·o·ries

1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
It takes only one demonstrable contradiction to disprove a theory. It goes back to your statement:
It was not taught to me as a theory at the public highschool I went to, it and the "big bang" theory were taught as "fact".
It means that evolution and the "big bang" are currently the most credible explanations for their relative subjects, and there are no credible contradictions in either.

It also relates to the topic of this thread, ID, which, under the scientific definition, does NOT merit being considered as a THEORY because the concepts presented by "creationism," "creation science" or "intelligent design" are contradicted by the physical evidence of the history of this planet and the observed universe. They fail out of the gate as a scientific hypothesis or proposition.

You can weasel and wriggle and squirm all you want. You can call me names to your heart's content. That still doesn't let you off the hook for addressing the fact that a lot of what you've said in this thread is meaningless in the context of the true definition of the word, THEORY. :roll:

Your post suggests you don't know the definition of a scientific theory. Do you?

Clue -- Evolution and the "big bang" meet the criteria. "Intelligent Design" does not.

Clue -- The correct answer shatters your argument.

If you don't know, just cop to it, and I'll give you the answer in a follow up post. :cool:

That was your original post to mine. It has nothing to do with what I posted. I never suggested ID met anything, nor did I say evolution did not. What I did say was that things need to be taught in their correct context because they were not in my school.

So again, take your overzealous attack attitude elsewhere because it's quite tiresome to have to deal with your twisted attacks over and over again. If you could stick to what is said instead of jumping to conclusions and trying to argue against things that weren't said then I wouldn't have a problem with you but it seems you enjoy trying to make a scene and explode into rediculous arguments.
Oh hell! Now, I have to include your entire ridiculous post just to keep the context. OK. Here goes...

1. My initial reply to you has everything to do with two of your posts. You said:
I think the biggest issue at play here is that evolution is presented as fact and no other theory is presented at all. I would image that most ID supporters would be happy with ID being offered along side evolution if they were both presented as theory. But I'm not on the ID wagon. I don't think another option has to be presented. I'd be happy if they would present evolution as a theory and note that there are alternative theories and that none have been proven.
You also posted:
It was not taught to me as a theory at the public highschool I went to, it and the "big bang" theory were taught as "fact". But I did have a pretty freaky Bio teacher. My point is that it needs to be presented in a fashion that doesn't suggest it is "fact" or "proven".
My response to those statements was to question your understanding of the word, THEORY, and I asked what you meant by the word.

Since then, all you've done is dodge the issue and attack me, neither of which addresses the question or sheds any further light on what you mean by the word.

It's all getting way to repetitious, and by now, I'm sure you won't answer. You toss out neocon talking garbage and flames like they were Halloween candy, but it's just as obvious you never have facts to back them. All you can do is repeat your evasive weasle words and name calling. YOU'RE ALL MOUTH! :laugh:

And you obviously have trouble reading. Your post had nothing to do with what I put forward. I was not arguing about Evolution or ID. I said it needs to be taught the correct way, and the correct way is not presenting it as FACT. Big Bang is not a FACT. While broadly Evolution as a concept is fact, it is not FACT that we evolved from primordial
ooze like my teacher made us parrot(if we wanted a good grade). THAT is what my post was about. I did not say ID had to be taught or even that alternative theories need to be expressed but the way our school taught it, was as if everything was known and absolute fact.

Now again, take your overzealous argument routine and shove it. I have nothing to prove as your little argument has nothing to do with my position or posts.

If you knew anything about a scientific theory you would know that to teach it as fact is the correct method. Unless we are talking about high level research work at the edge of a theory then it is the correct way to teach.
 

dannybin1742

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2002
2,335
0
0
I don't think another option has to be presented. I'd be happy if they would present evolution as a theory and note that there are alternative theories and that none have been proven

other theorys like?

and what hasn't been proven? you need to get you head out of the republican loud speaker and into a biology book. don't bs a response either i'm a biochemist
 

ShadesOfGrey

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2005
1,523
0
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Originally posted by: dannybin1742
I don't think another option has to be presented. I'd be happy if they would present evolution as a theory and note that there are alternative theories and that none have been proven

other theorys like?

and what hasn't been proven? you need to get you head out of the republican loud speaker and into a biology book. don't bs a response either i'm a biochemist

:roll: typical response from an ooze apologist. It doesn't matter what, it just matters that it is taught in the proper context. The Big Bang theory isn't the only theory about how things came to be, yet there are teachers who only teach that, and teach it as FACT.(that was the case in my school)
I don't give a rats @ss what you think you are, it doesn't mean anything in this discussion. You can claim that because you are a biochemist that the big bang theory is fact, but it doesn't make it so. Has something ever been created from nothing? and documented? No. So the Big Bang has not been proven and is not a FACT.

smack Down - no, teaching it as FACT is not the proper way because it is not proven. You have proof that everything came from nothing?

Again, my argument is not for or against teaching Evolution, ID, or anything else. I just want the "scientific" community to stop trying to claim things as "fact" when in reality it is not "FACT" or provable.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
And you obviously have trouble reading. Your post had nothing to do with what I put forward. I was not arguing about Evolution or ID. I said it needs to be taught the correct way, and the correct way is not presenting it as FACT. Big Bang is not a FACT. While broadly Evolution as a concept is fact, it is not FACT that we evolved from primordial
ooze like my teacher made us parrot(if we wanted a good grade). THAT is what my post was about. I did not say ID had to be taught or even that alternative theories need to be expressed but the way our school taught it, was as if everything was known and absolute fact.

Now again, take your overzealous argument routine and shove it. I have nothing to prove as your little argument has nothing to do with my position or posts.
< Ronald Reagan voice > ... There you go again! :laugh:

More of the same denial and name calling. If anyone is reading challenged, it's you. You even quoted my post relating my replies that were directly responsive to yours, and even after I gave you plenty of time to find it, I stll had to give you the scientific definition of a THEORY.

Then, even after I posted the correct definition, instead of being smart enough to accept the information and adjust your statement to that reality, you opened your fat mouth wide enough to insert both feet and repost your idiotic abuse of the word.

You're truly the poster child for the failure of our school systems. :p
 

Agnostos Insania

Golden Member
Oct 29, 2005
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Originally posted by: XZeroII
Yes. And we shouldn't be teaching people that evolution IS THE WAY IT IS. When I was in HS, that is the way we were taught. No critical thinking.

It's that way because there's no other credible scientifically-sound competition for evolution. Critical thinking is definitely good, but ID's "It's too complicated for science to explain" really has nothing to teach. Sure, if you could show that there was a written signature on DNA that said "Gorlak, Creator of Earth" on it then you could compete with evolution, but using humanity's ignorance is simply an excuse to promote religion.
 

ShadesOfGrey

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2005
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Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
And you obviously have trouble reading. Your post had nothing to do with what I put forward. I was not arguing about Evolution or ID. I said it needs to be taught the correct way, and the correct way is not presenting it as FACT. Big Bang is not a FACT. While broadly Evolution as a concept is fact, it is not FACT that we evolved from primordial
ooze like my teacher made us parrot(if we wanted a good grade). THAT is what my post was about. I did not say ID had to be taught or even that alternative theories need to be expressed but the way our school taught it, was as if everything was known and absolute fact.

Now again, take your overzealous argument routine and shove it. I have nothing to prove as your little argument has nothing to do with my position or posts.
< Ronald Reagan voice > ... There you go again! :laugh:

More of the same denial and name calling. If anyone is reading challenged, it's you. You even quoted my post relating my replies that were directly responsive to yours, and even after I gave you plenty of time to find it, I stll had to give you the scientific definition of a THEORY.

Then, even after I posted the correct definition, instead of being smart enough to accept the information and adjust your statement to that reality, you opened your fat mouth wide enough to insert both feet and repost your idiotic abuse of the word.

You're truly the poster child for the failure of our school systems. :p

Ah yes, the same old bluster from our resident attack dog.:roll: Again, nothing you have attacked me for is relevant. My definition of theory is no different than yours(most likely) but for some reason you seem to think that I'm wrong somehow. Ofcourse I'm wrong according to you, you want to make this into an evolution debate, something which I did not do. You can play your little "definition" games all you want but it doesn't change the fact that it is my opinion that the ID people would be more than satisfied if Evolution was taught in it's proper context. This includes the "big bang" theory of how things came to be.

If there is any poster child here, it you for the arrogant and delusional left. You are consistantly trying to attack based on things that aren't said or positions not taken.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
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The foolish and weak way of God is not compatible with the wise and strong ways of men.