Would AQ take over Iraq if US troops left tomorrow?

[bamacre]

During tonight's debate, it was repeated by many of the Republican candidates that AQ would take over Iraq if we left tomorrow (I know it is not logistically possible, but you know what I mean).

How can anyone actually believe such a thing?

AQ has been kicked out of every country they've been in, even before they were AQ. From Egypt decades ago, all the way to just recently in Iraq, they have been sent running.

The ONLY exception was Afghanistan, and only because we helped.

Muslims don't even want to be ruled under a Muslim-based Theocracy. Even OBL was kicked out of Saudi Arabia. Qutb was killed Egypt, Al-Zawahiri was sent running to Afganistan before he was killed.

This fear of AQ taking over Iraq is completely unjustified, and totally insane. The Iraqi's don't want them, and who could blame them? I mean, their strategy is stupid, bomb people into supporting you? It is no surprise that people, that Muslims, don't like them, don't want anything to do with them, and don't even want them in their country, much less governing it.

It's just another excuse for staying there. And that list of excuses is rather long, and as soon as one gets scratched off the list, another one appears.

 

[xj0hnx]

I don't hear in of those tools talking about the fact the AQ has secured a nice plot of land in Pakistan, which has nukes, IMO that makes all ther ludicrous fearmongering null, and void.

 

[purplehippo]

Talk to a few service men and women stationed in the middle east and ask them if AQ is real or not? Walk through a few Veterans hospitals and ask men and women with no arms and legs if AQ is real or not. Talk to the almost 3000 people's families who had a loved one die on 9/11. The list goes on and on. Hundreds of attacks all around the world and thousands dead.
Muslim Theocracy? Are you kidding me. Do you understand the concept of what their religion teaches? History is replete with examples since before the Crusades to present day. They will gladly kill their own if their own disagrees with their faction of belief. We are infadels and according to their belief we must either join them in their belief or die. There are no other choices. Understanding what they believe is the key to defeating it. If we don't keep them over there - they will be here soon. The UK is experiencing that very problem now. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Lord help us all if we don't come together as a nation with some common sense. It's going to take more than just one man or woman to change this country. We are going to have to change it ourselves. We'll have to stop feeding our faces and quit whining to see the truth. The scarey part is it just may be too late.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by: purplehippo
Talk to a few service men and women stationed in the middle east and ask them if AQ is real or not? Walk through a few Veterans hospitals and ask men and women with no arms and legs if AQ is real or not. Talk to the almost 3000 people's families who had a loved one die on 9/11. The list goes on and on. Hundreds of attacks all around the world and thousands dead.

You're talking to one.

Muslim Theocracy? Are you kidding me. Do you understand the concept of what their religion teaches? History is replete with examples since before the Crusades to present day. They will gladly kill their own if their own disagrees with their faction of belief. We are infadels and according to their belief we must either join them in their belief or die. There are no other choices. Understanding what they believe is the key to defeating it. If we don't keep them over there - they will be here soon. The UK is experiencing that very problem now. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Lord help us all if we don't come together as a nation with some common sense. It's going to take more than just one man or woman to change this country. We are going to have to change it ourselves. We'll have to stop feeding our faces and quit whining to see the truth. The scarey part is it just may be too late.

There's approximately 1.6 billion muslims in countries around the world, only an extremely small percentage, take the teachings in the quran to mean what the extremist do, if the muslim majority thought and acted the way islamofascist do we would be in BIG trouble. The UK could put their foot down if they had the will, but their liberal mindset apparently is too loose to put a leash on their troubles.

 

[chucky2]

The sad thing is it could probably happen.

The only reason the Anbar province was won wasn't because the locals themselves went after a small amount of AQI, but rather the locals partnered with US forces to drive out/kill the AQI. Without US support and/or with a larger AQI demographic, who's to say that fight wouldn't still be going on, or, who the winner would really be if it was over?

Worse, AQI only has to learn from its mistake in coming on too harsh before having control not only at the top Leadership, but the middle Leadership as well.

So, Yeah, if you're talking macro scale where you just need to corrupt (in a highly corruptable or at minimum opportunistic society) at the top levels, and then have it carry down to the middle-top levels, you surely could have that happen.

Or you just have AQI F'ing with the country more like it's been doing (which admittadly isn't truly our problem, but since we're there, it is) and just causing instability, tension, and bad blood in a region that has way too much of that already.

We're going to be in the ME for a long while, or until the oil stops flowing....no one is going to change that, Period.

Chuck

 

[yllus]

Al Qaeda? No chance. Shiites bent on some payback with the backing of Iran? Much more probable.

 

[Oceandevi]

Originally posted by: yllus
Al Qaeda? No chance. Shiites bent on some payback with the backing of Iran? Much more probable.

bingo

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Oceandevi

Originally posted by: yllus
Al Qaeda? No chance. Shiites bent on some payback with the backing of Iran? Much more probable.

bingo

Which wouldn't necessarily be so bad if we had a better relationship with Iran. We're being too aggressive with Iran. Their people are mostly young, and pro-West. We would be wise to establish a less aggressive relationship with Iran now, and be patient. Wait for those old fuckers to die off, and then have a good friend in Iran, instead of another enemy.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by: yllus
Al Qaeda? No chance. Shiites bent on some payback with the backing of Iran? Much more probable.

This is the most likely scenerio.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: xj0hnx

Originally posted by: yllus
Al Qaeda? No chance. Shiites bent on some payback with the backing of Iran? Much more probable.

This is the most likely scenerio.

/agree

I think Al queda is just a buzzword people like to use to describe any anti-establishment, military-esque organized muslim group.

 

[fskimospy]

By our own estimates Al Qaeda is an EXCEEDINGLY small element in Iraq. As far as who is causing the casualties against our soldiers there, everything I have read says that AQ doesn't even register.

 

[jackschmittusa]

AQ is a boogyman (n. A terrifying specter; a hobgoblin.) par excellence.

 

[compuwiz1]

Originally posted by: purplehippo
Talk to a few service men and women stationed in the middle east and ask them if AQ is real or not? Walk through a few Veterans hospitals and ask men and women with no arms and legs if AQ is real or not. Talk to the almost 3000 people's families who had a loved one die on 9/11. The list goes on and on. Hundreds of attacks all around the world and thousands dead.
Muslim Theocracy? Are you kidding me. Do you understand the concept of what their religion teaches? History is replete with examples since before the Crusades to present day. They will gladly kill their own if their own disagrees with their faction of belief. We are infadels and according to their belief we must either join them in their belief or die. There are no other choices. Understanding what they believe is the key to defeating it. If we don't keep them over there - they will be here soon. The UK is experiencing that very problem now. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Lord help us all if we don't come together as a nation with some common sense. It's going to take more than just one man or woman to change this country. We are going to have to change it ourselves. We'll have to stop feeding our faces and quit whining to see the truth. The scarey part is it just may be too late.

So we must cut the roots here in America? Gotcha. Tomorrow we need to blow up all the 7-11's and Liquor stores in California, otherwise they are gonna get us here. :shocked:

Above was the humorous part.
I've been saying the next part for years. Stop Importing the Fuckers. They get here and they do not speak well of us.
I have a friend who does not look like he could speak Farsi, but he understands and speaks well. He comes up to me one day and says, if you could only hear what these guys say, even though they live here, you'd be apauled.

 

[maluckey]

AQ/AQIZ are real.

AQ/AQIZ are a very active element in some areas of Iraq.

AQ/AQIZ are fully capable of exerting their will to the extent that they could indeed take over large portions of Iraq, given half a chance. Not by sheer frontal assault, but through bribery and intimidation, coupled with attacks on small communities. Enough local leaders get intimidated, governments will change.

AQ/AQIZ are not an extreme minority. AQ/AQIZ and groups loyal to them, as well as sympathizers are more common than the run of the mill mobsters up north.

AQ/AQIZ are more a loose coalition of power-hungry extremists than a "members-only" group that most people think of. Think of a Bloods, Crips and MS-13 agreement hell-bent on politics and taking over the government instead of the streets an drug trade.

 

[techs]

No.
/thread

 

[StageLeft]

I doubt it. These people are morons anyway. You listen to f**kabee, he's stuck in Feb/03 mentality. He is still sure Iraq has or had WMD and says that just because you didn't find the easter eggs doesn't mean they were planted. He hasn't been updated on intelligence in almost five years.

 

[purplehippo]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1

Originally posted by: purplehippo
Talk to a few service men and women stationed in the middle east and ask them if AQ is real or not? Walk through a few Veterans hospitals and ask men and women with no arms and legs if AQ is real or not. Talk to the almost 3000 people's families who had a loved one die on 9/11. The list goes on and on. Hundreds of attacks all around the world and thousands dead.
Muslim Theocracy? Are you kidding me. Do you understand the concept of what their religion teaches? History is replete with examples since before the Crusades to present day. They will gladly kill their own if their own disagrees with their faction of belief. We are infadels and according to their belief we must either join them in their belief or die. There are no other choices. Understanding what they believe is the key to defeating it. If we don't keep them over there - they will be here soon. The UK is experiencing that very problem now. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Lord help us all if we don't come together as a nation with some common sense. It's going to take more than just one man or woman to change this country. We are going to have to change it ourselves. We'll have to stop feeding our faces and quit whining to see the truth. The scarey part is it just may be too late.

So we must cut the roots here in America? Gotcha. Tomorrow we need to blow up all the 7-11's and Liquor stores in California, otherwise they are gonna get us here. :shocked:

Above was the humorous part.
I've been saying the next part for years. Stop Importing the Fuckers. They get here and they do not speak well of us.
I have a friend who does not look like he could speak Farsi, but he understands and speaks well. He comes up to me one day and says, if you could only hear what these guys say, even though they live here, you'd be apauled.

LOL - thanks for the humor

 

[BoberFett]

Topic Title: Would AQ take over Iraq if US troops left tomorrow?
Topic Summary: John McCain, Mitt Romney, and Rudy Guliani say "yes."

That's because they're a) stupid or b) pandering to the frightened little bed-wetters that make up most of the Republican party.

 

[piasabird]

I think a slow draw-down of troops is more likely. Pulling out too fast would cost a lot of money real fast. We have millions of tons of vehicles that have to be shipped out of there. It is a huge effort to move that much manpower and machinery. It might even be less expensive to leave some of the equipment there than to move it.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: purplehippo
Talk to a few service men and women stationed in the middle east and ask them if AQ is real or not? Walk through a few Veterans hospitals and ask men and women with no arms and legs if AQ is real or not. Talk to the almost 3000 people's families who had a loved one die on 9/11. The list goes on and on. Hundreds of attacks all around the world and thousands dead.
Muslim Theocracy? Are you kidding me. Do you understand the concept of what their religion teaches? History is replete with examples since before the Crusades to present day. They will gladly kill their own if their own disagrees with their faction of belief. We are infadels and according to their belief we must either join them in their belief or die. There are no other choices. Understanding what they believe is the key to defeating it. If we don't keep them over there - they will be here soon. The UK is experiencing that very problem now. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Lord help us all if we don't come together as a nation with some common sense. It's going to take more than just one man or woman to change this country. We are going to have to change it ourselves. We'll have to stop feeding our faces and quit whining to see the truth. The scarey part is it just may be too late.

LMAO, someone who has obviously never heard of Dearborn, Michigan. Total FUD post.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: bamacre
During tonight's debate, it was repeated by many of the Republican candidates that AQ would take over Iraq if we left tomorrow (I know it is not logistically possible, but you know what I mean).

How can anyone actually believe such a thing?

AQ has been kicked out of every country they've been in, even before they were AQ. From Egypt decades ago, all the way to just recently in Iraq, they have been sent running.

The ONLY exception was Afghanistan, and only because we helped.

Muslims don't even want to be ruled under a Muslim-based Theocracy. Even OBL was kicked out of Saudi Arabia. Qutb was killed Egypt, Al-Zawahiri was sent running to Afganistan before he was killed.

This fear of AQ taking over Iraq is completely unjustified, and totally insane. The Iraqi's don't want them, and who could blame them? I mean, their strategy is stupid, bomb people into supporting you? It is no surprise that people, that Muslims, don't like them, don't want anything to do with them, and don't even want them in their country, much less governing it.

It's just another excuse for staying there. And that list of excuses is rather long, and as soon as one gets scratched off the list, another one appears.

I assume you mean Zarqawi was killed, not Al-Zawahiri. I agree that Al-Qaida alone doesn't comprise much of a threat, but that's not the problem. It's the culture and attitude they promote that represents the true danger, and in my opinion the reason we should be in the Middle East.

Their strategy is brilliant, simply because it's worked before. They're using the same strategy the Viet Cong used. They realize that no fighting force on earth, let alone a rag-tag mob of crazies with AK-47s, can hope to win a protracted, direct conflict with America. Our production capacity and resources are too great. What the insurgency is doing is influencing the American populace, which it knows is impatient. It's banking that we will talk ourselves out of it. That's why the media can be so destructive to the war effort. It's painting the war as a bloodbath, and that's precisely, exactly the image Al-Qaida and/or the insurgency wants to project to the citizenry. The enemy may be insane, but he's not stupid.

If we're not going to have a backbone, this will very quickly turn into another, less-severe version of Vietnam.

 

[Atreus21]

 

[manowar821]

John McCain, Mitt Romney, and Rudy Guliani can "go to hell".

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: bamacre
During tonight's debate, it was repeated by many of the Republican candidates that AQ would take over Iraq if we left tomorrow (I know it is not logistically possible, but you know what I mean).

How can anyone actually believe such a thing?

The two most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.

~ Robert Heinlein

The Republican candidates don't understand hydrogen so they're working overtime to corner the market on stupidity.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Atreus21
I assume you mean Zarqawi was killed, not Al-Zawahiri.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. What I meant was that Al-Zawahiri may have been killed had he stayed in Egypt. He was actually arrested there, and surprisingly let go.

I agree that Al-Qaida alone doesn't comprise much of a threat, but that's not the problem. It's the culture and attitude they promote that represents the true danger, and in my opinion the reason we should be in the Middle East.

Perhaps we help the promotion of that culture by being in the ME.

Their strategy is brilliant, simply because it's worked before. They're using the same strategy the Viet Cong used. They realize that no fighting force on earth, let alone a rag-tag mob of crazies with AK-47s, can hope to win a protracted, direct conflict with America. Our production capacity and resources are too great.

I beg to differ. Their strategy has done nothing to help them achieve their goals. They aren't, and haven't, gained support by blowing up their own people. The Egyptians didn't decades ago, and the Iraqi's didn't either. Of course it didn't happen in the USA either after the 9/11 attacks. All they are doing is creating more enemies. Saddam didn't want them. The Iranians don't want them. The Saudi's don't want them. No one wants anything to do with them.

What the insurgency is doing is influencing the American populace, which it knows is impatient. It's banking that we will talk ourselves out of it. That's why the media can be so destructive to the war effort. It's painting the war as a bloodbath, and that's precisely, exactly the image Al-Qaida and/or the insurgency wants to project to the citizenry. The enemy may be insane, but he's not stupid.

If we're not going to have a backbone, this will very quickly turn into another, less-severe version of Vietnam.

The Iraqi insurgency does not equal AQ. They may use the same tactic, but that's it. In fact, AQ has been sent running as Iraqi's and the US have ganged up on them. The insurgency has a different goal, and that is simply to kill as many Americans because they are occupying their country.

And I totally disagree with you about the cause of the lack of American support for the war. Because let me tell you, if there were a solid reason to be there, if Iraq had attacked us, Americans wouldn't care as much about the bloodshed they see on TV. But that is not the case. There was no reason to invade Iraq. There was no merit supporting our invasion. And THAT is why there is a lack of American support for this war. Very much the same in regards to Vietnam.

You can't go to war without merit and complain when it's not supported by the people.