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Would Americans consider funding the Russian shuttle in the short term?

MadRat

MadRat

Lifer
The Buran is 12-14 months away from flight if the Russians had the money to fly it. Do you think that the Americans would help fund it to speed up plans on the space station?
 
I think we need to sit back and take alook at our shuttle program and get it back on track.Let the Russians worry about thier program.If they want advice help them but no funding.
 
Originally posted by: MadRat
The Buran is 12-14 months away from flight if the Russians had the money to fly it. Do you think that the Americans would help fund it to speed up plans on the space station?
Click to expand...

You mean the one they left in the park for the kids to play on? I think we can pass.
 
Let's see.....fly a ship that is a poor copy of ours, using older technology, and built by more of less forced labor? Hmmm....oh yeah...it has been sitting in a park for years rusting as well. I dunno.....sounds like a sweet deal but I think I'll pass. There's a reason the Russians only flew it once, unmanned, and then parked it.
 
Originally posted by: shinerburke
and built by more of less forced labor?
Click to expand...

What mnakes you think that communism = forced labor? I bet that Buran was made by regural people working in regural factories.
 
Actually, from everything I've read, the Buran passed every test it was presented with and only minor flaws were ever found. The booster system was less complex than the US version and there were now engines to retreive. The main (and probably only) reason the Buran was suspended was the collapse of the Russian economy (i.e. USSR) and there simply were no funds to continue it. There has once again recently been talks of reviving the program, but, from what I've read, they want to leapfrog past the Buron since the design and technology is outdated according to their scientists.
 
Originally posted by: Nemesis77
Originally posted by: shinerburke
and built by more of less forced labor?
Click to expand...

What mnakes you think that communism = forced labor? I bet that Buran was made by regural people working in regural factories.
Click to expand...
Had a Russian/Soviet history professor in college that had escaped from East Berlin, the stories he told about factory working conditions behind the Iron Curtain, especially in the Soviet Union, were horrifying. He told more than one story about people vanishing from their jobs and they or their families were never seen again. He started planning his escape one day while he was at work(he worked at a munitions plant) and the guy just down the line from him dropped a shell or something, can't remember exactly, and the "Political Counselor) walked over, started screaming at him and shot him dead on the spot. My Proff was 23 at the time and it took him 2 years to plan his escape. Nearly got caught but made it out, lived in England for about 15 years, went to school, then came to the U.S. and started teaching here.

 
Originally posted by: EndGame
Actually, from everything I've read, the Buran passed every test it was presented with and only minor flaws were ever found. The booster system was less complex than the US version and there were now engines to retreive. The main (and probably only) reason the Buran was suspended was the collapse of the Russian economy (i.e. USSR) and there simply were no funds to continue it. There has once again recently been talks of reviving the program, but, from what I've read, they want to leapfrog past the Buron since the design and technology is outdated according to their scientists.
Click to expand...

The Buran design with the Energia booster is more simple because it was not reusable. The U.S. shuttle was deisgned to be reusuable except for the external fuel tank. From what I've read of the Buran it was a poor copy of the U.S. shuttle. It had a larger cargo capacity but only because it had no main engines of it's own. Also I remember reading something about how far behind it's flight controls were compared to the U.S. shuttle and that there were doubts that a human would be able to actually fly it.
 
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Let's see.....fly a ship that is a poor copy of ours, using older technology, and built by more of less forced labor? Hmmm....oh yeah...it has been sitting in a park for years rusting as well. I dunno.....sounds like a sweet deal but I think I'll pass. There's a reason the Russians only flew it once, unmanned, and then parked it.
Click to expand...

Uh...I definitely wouldn't call it a poor copy. Their Energia is a lot more versatile than what we have. As for the Buran...it's a good shuttle (basically exactly what we have) but considering it hasn't been serviced for a few years, I don't think we'd want it. And why would we want something that would take 12-14 months to get back up to speed? I'd imagine inspecting and fixing our shuttles won't take much longer than that. Not to mention it's probably cheaper.
 
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Had a Russian/Soviet history professor in college that had escaped from East Berlin, the stories he told about factory working conditions behind the Iron Curtain, especially in the Soviet Union, were horrifying. He told more than one story about people vanishing from their jobs and they or their families were never seen again. He started planning his escape one day while he was at work(he worked at a munitions plant) and the guy just down the line from him dropped a shell or something, can't remember exactly, and the "Political Counselor) walked over, started screaming at him and shot him dead on the spot. My Proof was 23 at the time and it took him 2 years to plan his escape. Nearly got caught but made it out, lived in England for about 15 years, went to school, then came to the U.S. and started teaching here.
Click to expand...

Peopably there were "incidents", but I'm pretty sure that 95% of the workser were just regural guys doing regural work, just like they do in west. Of course some things in old USSR were suckier than in the west.

People being shot in the production-plants? This is the first time I have heard of that.
 
Originally posted by: Nemesis77
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Had a Russian/Soviet history professor in college that had escaped from East Berlin, the stories he told about factory working conditions behind the Iron Curtain, especially in the Soviet Union, were horrifying. He told more than one story about people vanishing from their jobs and they or their families were never seen again. He started planning his escape one day while he was at work(he worked at a munitions plant) and the guy just down the line from him dropped a shell or something, can't remember exactly, and the "Political Counselor) walked over, started screaming at him and shot him dead on the spot. My Proof was 23 at the time and it took him 2 years to plan his escape. Nearly got caught but made it out, lived in England for about 15 years, went to school, then came to the U.S. and started teaching here.
Click to expand...

Peopably there were "incidents", but I'm pretty sure that 95% of the workser were just regural guys doing regural work, just like they do in west. Of course some things in old USSR were suckier than in the west.

People being shot in the production-plants? This is the first time I have heard of that.
Click to expand...
Well it was back in the early 60's when he left East Berlin, who knows what kind of crap went on then? I believe every word he said though, you could see the pain, anger, and hatred in his eyes/face when he would talk about things there.

 
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: EndGame
Actually, from everything I've read, the Buran passed every test it was presented with and only minor flaws were ever found. The booster system was less complex than the US version and there were now engines to retreive. The main (and probably only) reason the Buran was suspended was the collapse of the Russian economy (i.e. USSR) and there simply were no funds to continue it. There has once again recently been talks of reviving the program, but, from what I've read, they want to leapfrog past the Buron since the design and technology is outdated according to their scientists.
Click to expand...

The Buran design with the Energia booster is more simple because it was not reusable. The U.S. shuttle was deisgned to be reusuable except for the external fuel tank. From what I've read of the Buran it was a poor copy of the U.S. shuttle. It had a larger cargo capacity but only because it had no main engines of it's own. Also I remember reading something about how far behind it's flight controls were compared to the U.S. shuttle and that there were doubts that a human would be able to actually fly it.
Click to expand...

I agree! I wasn't disagreeing that we should not attempt to "retool" the Buran, I agree, that is/would be useless and tried to say that at the end since even the Russian program does not want to revive the Buran itself. My point was that it did pass every test they gave it.....but, the project was suspended due to lack of funds.

IMHO, this would be a GREAT time to pursue and push the next expieremental developments! Sattelites can be launched without the use of the shuttle and I just think the time has come to pursue the "next generation" spaceship, hopefully one which does not need the booster tanks and engines, something along the Lockheed/NASA design which was scrapped.

 
Originally posted by: EndGame
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: EndGame
Actually, from everything I've read, the Buran passed every test it was presented with and only minor flaws were ever found. The booster system was less complex than the US version and there were now engines to retreive. The main (and probably only) reason the Buran was suspended was the collapse of the Russian economy (i.e. USSR) and there simply were no funds to continue it. There has once again recently been talks of reviving the program, but, from what I've read, they want to leapfrog past the Buron since the design and technology is outdated according to their scientists.
Click to expand...

The Buran design with the Energia booster is more simple because it was not reusable. The U.S. shuttle was deisgned to be reusuable except for the external fuel tank. From what I've read of the Buran it was a poor copy of the U.S. shuttle. It had a larger cargo capacity but only because it had no main engines of it's own. Also I remember reading something about how far behind it's flight controls were compared to the U.S. shuttle and that there were doubts that a human would be able to actually fly it.
Click to expand...

I agree! I wasn't disagreeing that we should not attempt to "retool" the Buran, I agree, that is/would be useless and tried to say that at the end since even the Russian program does not want to revive the Buran itself. My point was that it did pass every test they gave it.....but, the project was suspended due to lack of funds.

IMHO, this would be a GREAT time to pursue and push the next expieremental developments! Sattelites can be launched without the use of the shuttle and I just think the time has come to pursue the "next generation" spaceship, hopefully one which does not need the booster tanks and engines, something along the Lockheed/NASA design which was scrapped.
Click to expand...
I agree with you that it is time to move on to another launch vehicle. Here's what I wrote in the shuttle replacement thread:

Like I said in the official thread......we need a space truck of some sort, but it shouldn't be our every mission launch vehicle. It should only be used for satellite repair trips, etc.... Leave launching satellites to heavy lift rockets and develop a more simple craft for getting people and supplies to the ISS. Both would be much cheaper and easier to operate thus freeing up more funds for getting us back to the moon on a permanent basis and then on to Mars.

 
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: EndGame
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: EndGame
Actually, from everything I've read, the Buran passed every test it was presented with and only minor flaws were ever found. The booster system was less complex than the US version and there were now engines to retreive. The main (and probably only) reason the Buran was suspended was the collapse of the Russian economy (i.e. USSR) and there simply were no funds to continue it. There has once again recently been talks of reviving the program, but, from what I've read, they want to leapfrog past the Buron since the design and technology is outdated according to their scientists.
Click to expand...

The Buran design with the Energia booster is more simple because it was not reusable. The U.S. shuttle was deisgned to be reusuable except for the external fuel tank. From what I've read of the Buran it was a poor copy of the U.S. shuttle. It had a larger cargo capacity but only because it had no main engines of it's own. Also I remember reading something about how far behind it's flight controls were compared to the U.S. shuttle and that there were doubts that a human would be able to actually fly it.
Click to expand...

I agree! I wasn't disagreeing that we should not attempt to "retool" the Buran, I agree, that is/would be useless and tried to say that at the end since even the Russian program does not want to revive the Buran itself. My point was that it did pass every test they gave it.....but, the project was suspended due to lack of funds.

IMHO, this would be a GREAT time to pursue and push the next expieremental developments! Sattelites can be launched without the use of the shuttle and I just think the time has come to pursue the "next generation" spaceship, hopefully one which does not need the booster tanks and engines, something along the Lockheed/NASA design which was scrapped.
Click to expand...
I agree with you that it is time to move on to another launch vehicle. Here's what I wrote in the shuttle replacement thread:

Like I said in the official thread......we need a space truck of some sort, but it shouldn't be our every mission launch vehicle. It should only be used for satellite repair trips, etc.... Leave launching satellites to heavy lift rockets and develop a more simple craft for getting people and supplies to the ISS. Both would be much cheaper and easier to operate thus freeing up more funds for getting us back to the moon on a permanent basis and then on to Mars.
Click to expand...

Most certainly correct IMHO. Heavy rockets are much more efficient in many ways to utilizing the/a shuttle type vehicle for every launch and manned ship is not neccessary.

What better tribute to the seven which lost their lives in the Columbia than to know that disaster was a sort of "new beginning" into the next era, and hopefully much safer, advanced era of manned space travel!🙂

 
I agree that a simpler methid is needed BUT the solid rocket boosters destroy the ozone at an astronomical rate.
 
I think not. Instead of funding the Reds I'd like to see our government offer more incentives/rewards for American private industry to reach into space.
 
If the US shuttle program is flawed, and it is, why fund something even worse?

We need something better than either.
 
In Russia, the shuttle funds you. sorry

Anyways, Having the us retool a russian craft is a bad idea and would take more than 12-14 months. 1st, gotta get the scientists all past the language barrier. then there's the whole AC vs DC power problem.
 
I am ahead of the game big time.. 🙂
Check out my thread here
You will find few interesting Buran links in there....
Good luck
 
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