World War III against China, Russia and North Korea

[GodisanAtheist]

I think "Big Stick" diplomacy is the tried and true approach, and we need to... stick with it.

Diplomacy first and always, but if someone is giving us shit whack em with the stick (hit some strategic but low impact targets), then go back to the bargaining table.

Hit prograessively harder with the stick, but always go back to the table and try to work out a solution.

The alternative, the "mad man" strategy of opening with a disproportionately heavy attack then waffling the diplomacy, creates an artificial peace that will decay to a worse situation as soon as the madman is out of office.

 

[cytg111]

WW3 against China Russia and NK.

Would be about finding and eliminating the trident factors at which point all three will pipe down in synchronization and beg for their lives.

 

[trenchfoot]

Convincing Russia that going after their neighbor's land is a really bad idea is also convincing China in the same way. That China feels the need to use Taiwan the same way NK uses the South and America to scare their peoples into being obedient subservient head nodders is one thing. Convincing themselves of their own propaganda is where things goes sideways for them. I don't know what it takes for that trifecta of dictatorships to believe that making the first move is a move into oblivion but it sure would help the democracies of the world make clear to any authoritarians out there that invading your neighbors will backfire quite badly. Kicking Putin out of Ukraine and having their commoners depose him in a really ugly kind of way would do the job nicely. Hitler, Mussolini, Hussein and Ghadaffy found that out the hard way, but given the enormous egos it takes to seize control of millions of people, methinks there will be other tyrants out there thinking they're smarter than their predecessors and will give it a go.

 

[igor_kavinski]

but given the enormous egos it takes to seize control of millions of people, methinks there will be other tyrants out there thinking they're smarter than their predecessors and will give it a go.

We keep assassinating them till everyone left figures it out that being a dictator is a bad, unfruitful occupation. Problem is, a good percentage of our population is comprised of unethical people who have no qualms about manipulating the public for their personal gain. This includes all kinds of psychopaths at the highest levels including CEOs, politicians, doctors, lawyers, govt employees etc. Why do they all do it? Coz they get a comfortable life out of it. What can we do about it? Make their life miserable!

 

[igor_kavinski]

A thought occurred to me. Both Turkey and Germany were culprits in their respective World Wars and paid a heavy price. But the aftermath of the great wars somehow galvanized their people and they were able to come out stronger, bit more mature and were able to pay their reparations off and stand strong in today's world. Same goes for Japan too. So maybe Russia needs one too, to sort itself out. What happens to it after it's defeated pathetically should be a deterrent and lesson to other nations like China, NK and Iran to not go messing around.

 

[nickqt]

A thought occurred to me. Both Turkey and Germany were culprits in their respective World Wars and paid a heavy price. But the aftermath of the great wars somehow galvanized their people and they were able to come out stronger, bit more mature and were able to pay their reparations off and stand strong in today's world. Same goes for Japan too. So maybe Russia needs one too, to sort itself out. What happens to it after it's defeated pathetically should be a deterrent and lesson to other nations like China, NK and Iran to not go messing around.

None of that is what happened, and the whole "paying reparations and coming out stronger" is how you got a militarily strong Nazi Germany.

I'm just going to say only a fucking lunatic wants the US to start assassinating foreign leaders and military officials to bring about world peace.

How can I totally opt out of ever seeing this thread again?

 

[iRONic]

But the aftermath of the great wars somehow galvanized their people and they were able to come out stronger, bit more mature and were able to pay their reparations off and stand strong in today's world.

WTAF are you smoking/snorting/gummy-bearing that gives you that idiotic interpretation of history?!?!?!

 

[GodisanAtheist]

None of that is what happened, and the whole "paying reparations and coming out stronger" is how you got a militarily strong Nazi Germany.

I'm just going to say only a fucking lunatic wants the US to start assassinating foreign leaders and military officials to bring about world peace.

How can I totally opt out of ever seeing this thread again?

- For the sake of argument, why would assassinating foreign leaders be a somehow less reprehensible approach than sending ten of thousands of young men and women to their deaths (or to be physically/mentally debilitated)?

I understand reality obviously would not be that clear-cut, but to start with the principle of the thing I am having a hard time disagreeing.

 

[feralkid]

Like when we took out Saddam and all our soldiers went home the next day?

 

[nickqt]

- For the sake of argument, why would assassinating foreign leaders be a somehow less reprehensible approach than sending ten of thousands of young men and women to their deaths (or to be physically/mentally debilitated)?

I understand reality obviously would not be that clear-cut, but to start with the principle of the thing I am having a hard time disagreeing.

That's the neat thing, both are crimes and the people ordering those actions are criminals.

If North Korea attacks South Korea, then destroy their military and ability to launch further military actions. Without murdering babies and whatnot.

Same with Russia, or China, or any other country.

I'm OK with military alliances, but when shit starts getting tossed around fast and loose, i.e. "Saddam Hussein is helping al Qaeda and has WMDs in underground trolly cars", then all of a sudden your government is committing war crimes as foreign policy.

As long as North Korea is just murdering its own citizens, we should not be assassinating their leaders. That's up to North Koreans who are against their government murdering its own citizens. If we are going to talk about respecting sovereignty and stuff.

 

[APU_Fusion]

Ah yes, the casual discussion of assasinating heads of states and using nukes. The Trumpification of America continues.

nukes bad mmmmmk? Like horrendous nightmare bad mmmmmmk. Shakes head at reparations. how about studying post ww1 Germany to learn about how well reparations worked out.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Pulls out queue card "Hey man I'm" *looks at notes* " just asking questions, can't I ask questions?"

 

[GodisanAtheist]

That's the neat thing, both are crimes and the people ordering those actions are criminals.

If North Korea attacks South Korea, then destroy their military and ability to launch further military actions. Without murdering babies and whatnot.

Same with Russia, or China, or any other country.

I'm OK with military alliances, but when shit starts getting tossed around fast and loose, i.e. "Saddam Hussein is helping al Qaeda and has WMDs in underground trolly cars", then all of a sudden your government is committing war crimes as foreign policy.

As long as North Korea is just murdering its own citizens, we should not be assassinating their leaders. That's up to North Koreans who are against their government murdering its own citizens. If we are going to talk about respecting sovereignty and stuff.

-If they're both crimes, then shouldn't the crime which results in less direct death be the preferable option?

Killing a dozen oligarchs in a precision strike to end a conflict certainly seems preferable to sending in 50k kids to kill 50k other kids.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

I would give up my life in such a war.

Gonna give up my life too?

 

[nakedfrog]

-If they're both crimes, then shouldn't the crime which results in less direct death be the preferable option?

Killing a dozen oligarchs in a precision strike to end a conflict certainly seems preferable to sending in 50k kids to kill 50k other kids.

The reality of it is rarely so simple though. Yay, we took out the oligarchs!
Oh, they had associates and underlings eager to take up the mantle. Guess we gotta take them out too.
Oh, wait, now there's an underground network of terrorists who resent us casually bumping off leaders they admired.

 

[brycejones]

These are practically shitty countries, behind in technology compared to the other first world nations and instead of trying to improve their standing in R&D for developing new stuff and contributing to humanity's evolution, they are threatening their more advanced neighbors. Russia was the first to embark on this insane trajectory and now China has set its eyes on Taiwan and North Korea is talking about dropping its plans for "peaceful unification" and wiping out South Korea if need be. WHAT IN THE EFFING HELL???? Why is the world standing by and letting these countries be criminal in every sense of the word and a detriment to humanity's continued development and existence? What will it take for the world to launch a united offensive against these countries? I would give up my life in such a war. Enough is enough. Shitty DNA needs to be wiped out or retrained to become decent through forceful submission or occupation. Otherwise, there will NEVER be peace!

Get your AK and GO RAMBO!!!!!! COME ON DONT" BE A CHICKEN!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GodisanAtheist]

The reality of it is rarely so simple though. Yay, we took out the oligarchs!
Oh, they had associates and underlings eager to take up the mantle. Guess we gotta take them out too.
Oh, wait, now there's an underground network of terrorists who resent us casually bumping off leaders they admired.

- Would definitely be fascinating from a sociological standpoint, the masses wanting a war and their leaders desperately trying to stop it from happening...

 

[amenx]

I would think aside from Chinas political and nationalistic motivations to "re-unify" (invade) Taiwan, are economic and technology related where they may think they could just keep TSMC running as normal after an invasion. And where the world would still need vital access to the most advanced chip making facility in the world and therefore would continue to do business with China.

Well if so, not sure how much of a deterrence this would be to such plans if it were to occur. But its there:

ASML & TSMC confirm kill switch.

ASML Holding NV and Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. have ways to disable the world’s most sophisticated chipmaking machines in the event that China invades Taiwan, according to people familiar with the matter.

Officials from the US government have privately expressed concerns to both their Dutch and Taiwanese counterparts about what happens if Chinese aggression escalates into an attack on the island responsible for producing the vast majority of the world’s advanced semiconductors, two of the people said, speaking on condition of anonymity...

 

[esquared]

Non-paywall link from above

https://archive.is/zPNjW

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I would think aside from Chinas political and nationalistic motivations to "re-unify" (invade) Taiwan, are economic and technology related where they may think they could just keep TSMC running as normal after an invasion. And where the world would still need vital access to the most advanced chip making facility in the world and therefore would continue to do business with China.

Well if so, not sure how much of a deterrence this would be to such plans if it were to occur. But its there:

ASML & TSMC confirm kill switch.

ASML Holding NV and Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. have ways to disable the world’s most sophisticated chipmaking machines in the event that China invades Taiwan, according to people familiar with the matter.

Officials from the US government have privately expressed concerns to both their Dutch and Taiwanese counterparts about what happens if Chinese aggression escalates into an attack on the island responsible for producing the vast majority of the world’s advanced semiconductors, two of the people said, speaking on condition of anonymity...

-Honestly shutting down TSMC (and then trashing or blowing up the equipment/buildings) is like a nuke level catastrophe, possibly worse depending on how many nukes we're talking.

Would basically grind the global economy to a halt.

 

[pmv]

No. I was thinking more like castrate them from a military perspective. No firepower no threat.

The US already bombed the living crap out of North Korea. That's one major reason why they are so determined to get nuclear weapons. It seems to be a deeply-traumatized country.

Not to forgive or excuse the insane regime they've ended up lumbered with, but bombing them again doesn't seem like a good way to fix the problem.

Also China and Russia are very different, with very different aims and concerns.

 

[trenchfoot]

Well as far as I'm concerned, when things get right down to our grunts against theirs real personal like, the way we Americans are taught to fight in the shit and the way our chain of command is full of experienced fighters top to bottom in all branches, we may not be the best in the world in some ways but we sure are seriously hard to beat. And I know our potential enemies are taking into account that our big stick is not only for show-n-tell like some other guys down the street and we swing'um pretty good.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Also China and Russia are very different, with very different aims and concerns.

They are both similar in the sense that they are delusional enough to think that the only reason the world hates them is because of the USA and its "propaganda" against them, NOT their communist way of thinking and almost zero regard for human life.

 

[hal2kilo]

Organizing an effective defense AND a powerful deterrent is one thing.
But to launch an offensive against nuclear powers is suicide.

I am ALL FOR an eye for an eye when it comes to missiles, drones, etc. When they reach out we need to be there to bite them. But I do not for one second believe we should pose a threat to annihilate a country with nuclear weapons. Do you understand what those weapons do? You are not just vowing to throw your life away, but all lives. Everywhere. Any sane country and military would stop you from this course of action. They want to live.

So you need to rethink your ideas in how we deal with nuclear countries that reach out and attack their non nuclear neighbors.

It's suicide by design. See MAD.