World Of Warcraft

[b4u]

Hi,

Don't get me wrong by the subtitle, is just that I've created an image of wow not that much favorable. Let me try to explain:

Wow is a MMORPG ... that is, a bunch of people playing the game on the internet. In theory that should be a good think ... but is it? I recently saw, and played for a few hours the game. Ok, so it was not on an oficial server, but it was enough for me and some other people to feel the game ... before splashing our money on something we wouldn't like. This is a monthly/yearly fee, so playing for a long time just makes it expensive over time.

So there we were, running around, killing some beasts, completing quests ... just entering the story. We saw some players online, talked a bit, asked for some help on some issues, and there I was, killing and killing and going and going.

Wait a minute! What is this? Is this a MMORPG? I feel I was playing my old copy of Evil Islands ... only with (sometimes) many other players around ... this was my first try at a MMORPG ... and I thought I would find a persistent and consistent world, a world where the quests differ from player to player, a world where my actions will stay forever if someone else doesn't change their effects.

So it's just a world were people are playing single-player missions, but can just join together to finish some huge beast.

Well, I saw just that with my Evil Islands I bought a couple of years ago with a computer magazine, and it just costed 5$.

This is just a game played in the warcraft world, on some similar lines of Diablo, with the server-side user-profile and interaction we saw on Freelancer. And for that one I just bought the game box ... no monthly fees around. The lack of a persistent and expandable world, with full dinamic economy was what I thought it would belong to a real MMORPG.

I'm just looking into MMORPG games now, and maybe find one that fits what I look for. So after my thoughts, I would need to ask for the opinion of those who love the game, and can maybe explain if there is something I really didn't saw yet (just tried the game).

Shouldn't it be a persistent world?

Also another thing that bugs me about these games: when many people play it, the game will soon endup. Maps can be huge and lot's of them, with many quests and beast to play around ... but people continue to play it and eventually find the end of it. So it's the programer's job to add new areas, quests and stuff like that, right? So is that it? We plug-n-pay for unlimited expansion packs? If that's the point, what if a player starts to play 2 years after the game started? Wouldn't he be in disadvantage over all the other players?

One other thing: how do you players live with the fact that after splashing lot's of cash playing the game for a few years, you just fill tired and just finish playing? (Loosing all cash and time you spent on it)

These questions just pop into my mind after thinking for a while, and specially after taking a peek of the game itself.


Thanks for the opinions.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Just take the blue pill and get back to level grinding.


🙂



You're sensing what I've said since the beginning. WoW is NOT and MMORPG and if it's your first one then #1 I'm sorry for your terrible introduction and #2 you've shown quite a bit of sophistication by seeing right through the hype and glossy graphics.

You are right, of course. WoW is more of a COOP RPG. They all are at this point thanks to the financial success of everquest and it's abuse of the "Reflex/Reward" syndrome.

Once upon a time almost 10 years ago, Origin created the first and only MMORPG called Ultima Online. It had a living, breathing ecosystem, limited resources to be squabbled over, houses you could build just for yourself, open PvP with a notoriety and bounty hunting system, items wore out and if not repaired fell apart, good crafters were known throughout the entire world, when you died everything you had on you was free for you or someone else to loot so you were always buying new weapons or armor or magic items and a whole trade system developed.

The options for behavior ranged from preying solely on other players, to only crafting, to defending others against PKs, to being a loner, to only wanting to monster bash, to wanting to construct an establishment like a library or tavern, to role-playing like you'll never see in WoW. When people formed guilds or friendships it was because, at their core, those players were similar people with similar play styles.

UO has since changed too dramatically to recommend any more. EA bought it....enough said. And you won't be seeing another true MMORPG for I'm guessing 4-5 years or longer thanks to the success of WoW (a.k.a. DAoC 1.5) and the myriad clones we can expect.

 

[Kev]

That's what I'm starting to think. I'm at lvl 41 and I couldn't get a group to do an instance if my life depended on it, even being in a huge guild (oh and nothing against the AT guild, but I tried playing on bronzebeard but that server is always crapping out on me). So basically I'm paying 15 bucks a month to play a single player game with other people running around me. I think this is my last month.

 

[Genx87]

UO has since changed too dramatically to recommend any more. EA bought it....enough said. And you won't be seeing another true MMORPG for I'm guessing 4-5 years or longer thanks to the success of WoW (a.k.a. DAoC 1.5) and the myriad clones we can expect.

Bravo, you summed up my feelings on the current state of MMORPGs quite well.
UO truely was an MMORPG with a viable economic, fighting, good vs evil system.
It is gone and the clones that have come out after it have been avg at best.

One of the things that seems to be the staple of MMORPGs now is the leveling system. You kill x amount of this and get y amount of experience and ding you are magically 1 level higher and kick z amount of more arse just because you killed so many dingos in the woods. The games are artificial and predictable and I think that is why they end up sucking in the end. Once you finally get to the pinacle of your career what else is there to do? Gather loot? Craft? PVP? The level grind ends up being the focal point of these games and once the focal point is done the new goals are bland.

One thing I enjoyed about UO was the skill based system and it was completely random and you didnt get x amount of experience for killing a troll. Instead, randomly though the fight your skills associated with fighting would raise. Eventually you would outgrow your foe and gain no more. And once you hit your pinnacle of success, a skill of 100, you werent done. Because if you did other things and let your top skill sit dormant then it would degrade. There wasnt an articial class structure where you get x amount of points to push into skills that never erroded. If you didnt use it then it degraded over time like any skill would in real life.

The economic system in UO was much more realistic and developed than the artifically propped up economies of most MMORPGs today. If you wanted so much iron ore or ignots you had a list of suppliers you could get a hold of and ask what their price was. This lead to corporations being formed where miners would get together and sell their goods to another group of crafters. Truely a great system. Hell towards the end of my career with space limited I got 10 houses together and rented them to people. This was before they put the limit of 1 house per person into effect. They even had a housing market in UO!

I really hope somebody comes along and developes another game like UO. The freedom to do whatever you want and the way it worked together really make it a MMORPG instead of a MMOFPS that some of these games end up being.

Now onto WoW. I played it from day 1 through last May. In the end the game was more of a single player game with occasional interaction. With the ability to solo it made grouping outside of instances near pointless. Especially since you take a hit on exp when grouping(one of the dumbest things ever). So your interaction with people is limited and no forced grouping outside of instances you start to wonder wtf is the point? The level grind is boring, their quests are usually nothing more than kill tasks or running around for 3 hours, and the PVP is bland.

Overall I was hoping this game was going to be awesome but it ended up being the same tired old game model with a new graphic. Quite sad IMO.

I am hoping Dark and Light will turn out as good as it sounds. If not Ill continue playing FPS like DOD:Source. At least there I am not being told it is a MMORPG and being charged a monthly fee to play it. Just a straight FPS and 1 time 19.95 charge 😉

 

[LeetViet]

Go play Official before coming up with a conclusion.

You must be one of those players that complain when not everything works in an emulated server.

 

[Soccer55]

Originally posted by: Genx87
At least there I am not being told it is a MMORPG and being charged a monthly fee to play it. Just a straight FPS and 1 time 19.95 charge 😉

Guild Wars is the same way. People may refer to it as a MMORPG, but NCSoft calls it a Coop RPG. Not to mention, there is no monthly fee to play. I remember when UO came out.....it looked like such a cool game and I was going to buy it until I found out that I had to pay a monthly fee in order to play it. I'm hoping that if Guild Wars is successful enough, maybe we'll see a game as good as UO with free online play.

-Tom

 

[Vortex22]

Anyone here who is quitting before hitting 60 really does not have the full picture of the game. Most of the content in WoW is made for level 60's. The real "levelling" in this game is faction grinding, if you complain about being able to hit 60 so fast and be "done" with the game, you just don't get it.

 

[NeoV]

wait for Huxley....

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: b4u
Hi,

Don't get me wrong by the subtitle, is just that I've created an image of wow not that much favorable. Let me try to explain:

Wow is a MMORPG ... that is, a bunch of people playing the game on the internet. In theory that should be a good think ... but is it? I recently saw, and played for a few hours the game. Ok, so it was not on an oficial server, but it was enough for me and some other people to feel the game ... before splashing our money on something we wouldn't like. This is a monthly/yearly fee, so playing for a long time just makes it expensive over time.

So there we were, running around, killing some beasts, completing quests ... just entering the story. We saw some players online, talked a bit, asked for some help on some issues, and there I was, killing and killing and going and going.

Wait a minute! What is this? Is this a MMORPG? I feel I was playing my old copy of Evil Islands ... only with (sometimes) many other players around ... this was my first try at a MMORPG ... and I thought I would find a persistent and consistent world, a world where the quests differ from player to player, a world where my actions will stay forever if someone else doesn't change their effects.

So it's just a world were people are playing single-player missions, but can just join together to finish some huge beast.

Well, I saw just that with my Evil Islands I bought a couple of years ago with a computer magazine, and it just costed 5$.

This is just a game played in the warcraft world, on some similar lines of Diablo, with the server-side user-profile and interaction we saw on Freelancer. And for that one I just bought the game box ... no monthly fees around. The lack of a persistent and expandable world, with full dinamic economy was what I thought it would belong to a real MMORPG.

I'm just looking into MMORPG games now, and maybe find one that fits what I look for. So after my thoughts, I would need to ask for the opinion of those who love the game, and can maybe explain if there is something I really didn't saw yet (just tried the game).

Shouldn't it be a persistent world?

Also another thing that bugs me about these games: when many people play it, the game will soon endup. Maps can be huge and lot's of them, with many quests and beast to play around ... but people continue to play it and eventually find the end of it. So it's the programer's job to add new areas, quests and stuff like that, right? So is that it? We plug-n-pay for unlimited expansion packs? If that's the point, what if a player starts to play 2 years after the game started? Wouldn't he be in disadvantage over all the other players?

One other thing: how do you players live with the fact that after splashing lot's of cash playing the game for a few years, you just fill tired and just finish playing? (Loosing all cash and time you spent on it)

These questions just pop into my mind after thinking for a while, and specially after taking a peek of the game itself.


Thanks for the opinions.

People try and say the MMO's are expensive... I dissagree completely. If you take your wife out to eat once a month, you will exceed the cost of playing an MMO. Not only that, but you get a lot more entertainment from it being that it isn't only an hour gig. You can play 20 hours a week, 80 hours a month in leisure time and it works out to, what? 19 cents an hour to play the game. Lets see how this compares to other things.

Movie @ $5.00 - $9.25 per ticket based on 90 minute showing = $3.33 - $6.16 an hour

Sit Down Dinner with Wife @ $20 for about an hour = $20 an hour

Baseball Game @ $25 - $75 a ticket for 3 hours = $8.33 - $25 an hour

Hockey Game @ $36 - $120 a ticket for 3 hours = $12 - $40 an hour

And oh my, the expensive WoW is, a whopping 19 cents an hour to play! The crime, Blizard is ripping us off! How dare they charge 10000% times less than other forms of entertainment.



Same story with a friend at work. Said he had to quit WoW due to money (he believes it too). He talks about being complete broke, then I hear him talking about getting a new tatoo... I asked him, what does it cost, he said "$85"... I thought for a minute and I didn't say anything, because I like him and didn't want to offend him. But basically, he has the money, he is just unwilling to spend it. I have no problem with that, so long as it is truthful, which it is. But affording $15 a month isn't hard at all, in fact, it is pocket change. Not sure why everyone freaks out over $15 a month... These are the people that buy cupboards full of cookies, DVD's and CD's every week and have cable TV with all the premium channels etc...

My point is, it all comes down to this. WoW is not expensive, anyone can pretty much afford it and people need to be honest and say "It is not worth $15 a month for me". That is a good answer, because your being honest... Anyway, didn't mean to go to far off course there, but seriously, $15 is pocket change.

Asside from that, what is great about WoW is the community, the challenges, the PvP aspect and is just all around a fun game. But it isn't for everyone, such as is the case with you.

Edit ** Also, shame on you for using emulated servers ! ! !

 

[LiekOMG]

I knew WoW was going to be the same old boring cookie cutter MMORPG after trying the beta for 3 hours. It wasn't even worth my time. I honestly don't understand why WoW is so popular. Its just a single player "RPG" with other people running around (and I put RPG in quotes because I don't even consider WoW an RPG - i've yet to see anything even close to real roleplaying in the game).

UO truely was a great game. Its amazing how we've only went downhill in innovation since its release. EQ was also pretty good when it was first released, but only on the PvP servers which had the same cutthroat setting as UO, where players created their own political factions and roleplaying came naturally to everyone.

Oh well, back to MUD's.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: DOACleric
I knew WoW was going to be the same old boring cookie cutter MMORPG after trying the beta for 3 hours. It wasn't even worth my time. I honestly don't understand why WoW is so popular. Its just a single player "RPG" with other people running around (and I put RPG in quotes because I don't even consider WoW an RPG - i've yet to see anything even close to real roleplaying in the game).

UO truely was a great game. Its amazing how we've only went downhill in innovation since its release. EQ was also pretty good when it was first released, but only on the PvP servers which had the same cutthroat setting as UO, where players created their own political factions and roleplaying came naturally to everyone.

Oh well, back to MUD's.

3 hours in the same isn't enough to make an opinion with any weight. An opinion, yes, but not one that carries weight.

I'll have to correct you on one main issue... How is it a single player game when there is PVP involved? Ever heard of the BG's? You can play 40 versus 40, 15 versus 15 and 10 versus 10 matches... That isn't exactily what I call a "single" player game.

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Just take the blue pill and get back to level grinding.


🙂



You're sensing what I've said since the beginning. WoW is NOT and MMORPG and if it's your first one then #1 I'm sorry for your terrible introduction and #2 you've shown quite a bit of sophistication by seeing right through the hype and glossy graphics.

You are right, of course. WoW is more of a COOP RPG. They all are at this point thanks to the financial success of everquest and it's abuse of the "Reflex/Reward" syndrome.

Once upon a time almost 10 years ago, Origin created the first and only MMORPG called Ultima Online. It had a living, breathing ecosystem, limited resources to be squabbled over, houses you could build just for yourself, open PvP with a notoriety and bounty hunting system, items wore out and if not repaired fell apart, good crafters were known throughout the entire world, when you died everything you had on you was free for you or someone else to loot so you were always buying new weapons or armor or magic items and a whole trade system developed.

The options for behavior ranged from preying solely on other players, to only crafting, to defending others against PKs, to being a loner, to only wanting to monster bash, to wanting to construct an establishment like a library or tavern, to role-playing like you'll never see in WoW. When people formed guilds or friendships it was because, at their core, those players were similar people with similar play styles.

UO has since changed too dramatically to recommend any more. EA bought it....enough said. And you won't be seeing another true MMORPG for I'm guessing 4-5 years or longer thanks to the success of WoW (a.k.a. DAoC 1.5) and the myriad clones we can expect.

Thank you HeroOfPellinor for posting your opinion. That was the best explanation I have ever read on how you feel about the current MMORPG compared to UO. I?ll admit I see your point of view now and the original OU game looked fantastic But I wonder how the game would be to the casual player that only had 4-5 hours a week to play. The game sounds very intense for the average MMORPG player but did the casual gamer have a chance with the entire player structure basically limiting their actions without involving others? Did players that choose to be loners have equal access to the limited resources in order to pursue their tradeskill or were they force to join a guild to be competitive?

The main reason I like WoW is the fact it is a simple game to play and master. I can login and play for a couple of hours when I have time without feeling I need to grind out a craft or harvest resources. It?s true the game can feel repetitive at times but with all the new high level content our guild can choose a different dungeon to raid every weekend without feeling bored. And I?ll add that having a good time playing WoW is guild dependent due to the amount of players that don?t have a clue to what teamwork is all about.

Quixfire

 

[Genx87]

UO truely was a great game. Its amazing how we've only went downhill in innovation since its release

Amazing isnt it? I honestly believe it is the game model that does it. Having a level based game vs Skill puts the developers into the same 1 track mind everytime.

WoW is probably a good first timer MMORPG. But anybody who has been around the block will probably grow tired of the same cookie cutter design of the game.

Playing DAOC the people flocked to WoW only to either quit the genre or crawl back to daoc, most quit.

I hope somebody breaks the mold. We shouldnt have to look at the first generation in MMORPGs as the pinnacle of the genre.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Vortex22
Anyone here who is quitting before hitting 60 really does not have the full picture of the game. Most of the content in WoW is made for level 60's. The real "levelling" in this game is faction grinding, if you complain about being able to hit 60 so fast and be "done" with the game, you just don't get it.

Content. :roll: Content is for Single-player RPGs where it's needed. There wasn't a single quest or mission in UO.

Seriously, do you grasp the irony of it? You want more scripted content for your MMORPG? You want to play a Massively Multiplayer RPG to........do a quest that hundreds before you and hundreds aftr will do. Homebody, I sat in on alliance meetings between several guilds of over 100 members each as they discussed how to handle the threat from a rising PK guild. The devs didn't go, "Here is something for you to do", this was all complete drama created by and experienced by the players.....THAT is massive....THAT is multiplayer.

 

[gsaldivar]

Originally posted by: Vortex22
Anyone here who is quitting before hitting 60 really does not have the full picture of the game. Most of the content in WoW is made for level 60's. The real "levelling" in this game is faction grinding, if you complain about being able to hit 60 so fast and be "done" with the game, you just don't get it.

QFT.

 

[skace]

I read this post when it had 0 replies and honestly didn't expect anyone to reply to it. I'm kind of surprised anyone did. I mean honestly, you expect an mmorpg where every persons quests are unique? Do you know how impossible that would be? Sorry the first 33,000 troll bridges were already cleared, you'll need to run to the other edge of the continent to find a dungeon of your own!

And yea, these threads always turn into a UO love fest. But unfortunately UO is dead and even the makers of UO can't come up with a freaking decent sequel. Vanguard is on the horizons but I am not all that convinced it will be that revolutionary either. And when I say revolutionary, I mean getting back to what we already had once.

There may not have been quests in UO, but that was also it's downfall. Nobody realizes that if it hadn't been for every PK out there in the world ruining their sh!t, the entire game would have been insanely easy and people would have quit in months. The game was hard because people were hacking everything left and right, leaving trapped boxes in towns, robbing houses, stealing boats, macroing, pk's hiding in every dungeon. That was the element of chaos that kept the game fierce.

There is nothing wrong with WoW having quests and most of the high end dungeons are VERY rewarding skill wise, a lot more rewarding then rolling up a bard in UO and making dragons kill each other.

I could argue this sh!t for days, each has their benefits, both games have very much so earned the title MMORPG.

 

[Genx87]

skace: You bring up a good point. If these always break down into UO lovefests why havent the developers got the hint?

Why are we seeing EQ level based clones over and over?

I suppose with the success of WoW the genre will only get worse as everybody tries to emulate WoW's model of scripted easy single player experiences with instanced scripted grouping for loot and a bland PVP model.

Again we as consumers end up bringing it on ourselves 🙁

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: Genx87
skace: You bring up a good point. If these always break down into UO lovefests why havent the developers got the hint?

Why are we seeing EQ level based clones over and over?

I suppose with the success of WoW the genre will only get worse as everybody tries to emulate WoW's model of scripted easy single player experiences with instanced scripted grouping for loot and a bland PVP model.

Again we as consumers end up bringing it on ourselves 🙁

We seem to forget that WoW is in it for the money. Last I checked they had over 4 million active subscribers. It seems to me that the devs do have a clue, since they are now the biggest MMO in the world. Everyone keeps ragging on WoW and that is fine, your choice, but you have to admit that the game sells! It must be a lot of fun, or no one would play it! The profits and numbers speak for themselves... WoW is a great game where the devs do know what they are doing.

 

[Vortex22]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Vortex22
Anyone here who is quitting before hitting 60 really does not have the full picture of the game. Most of the content in WoW is made for level 60's. The real "levelling" in this game is faction grinding, if you complain about being able to hit 60 so fast and be "done" with the game, you just don't get it.

Content. :roll: Content is for Single-player RPGs where it's needed. There wasn't a single quest or mission in UO.

Seriously, do you grasp the irony of it? You want more scripted content for your MMORPG? You want to play a Massively Multiplayer RPG to........do a quest that hundreds before you and hundreds aftr will do. Homebody, I sat in on alliance meetings between several guilds of over 100 members each as they discussed how to handle the threat from a rising PK guild. The devs didn't go, "Here is something for you to do", this was all complete drama created by and experienced by the players.....THAT is massive....THAT is multiplayer.

Where did I say content = scripted events?
All of the largest and most complex areas are made for level 60 players who are at the "end game" stage. MC = level 60, BWL = 60, Zul'Gurub = 60, Dire Maul = 60, Alterac Valley = 60, upcoming raid content in Silithus (one 20 man dungeon and one 40 man) = 60, also the new town and quests in Silithus = 60. Notice that almost all of these are group oriented and are impossible to solo. You can solo up to 60, if you want to progress your character further, you must group. The majority of WoW's content is for level 60's, the majority of WoW's upcoming content will be for 60's, and the majority of this content cannot be soloed. WoW is not a solo RPG.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Genx87
skace: You bring up a good point. If these always break down into UO lovefests why havent the developers got the hint?

Why are we seeing EQ level based clones over and over?

Easy answer, bro.
#1. Because they are cheaper and easier to produce. There's ZERO complexity to these games so coding them is FAR easier.
#2. UO got away with open PvP because it was the only show in town at the time. Living or dealing with the inherent tribulations of open PvP was something we were all, PvP'r and PvE'r, forced to do if we wanted to play and we eventually saw the beauty of it. Now-a-days there are so many other options that are safer and easier, that getting Joe Gamer to willfully put himself in the jungle of open PvP you would need to give him incentive to do so and, at that point, you need to develop a game that offers the benefits of PvE only in a PvP world. Open PvP can no longer be the only answer. Not easy, but doable as I've been playing around with a lot of constructs to make it possible....but, then again, now you're having to hire actually designers who will need to spend lots of time drawing it all out when you can just hire programmers to start immediately to copy what's already been done.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Genx87
skace: You bring up a good point. If these always break down into UO lovefests why havent the developers got the hint?

Why are we seeing EQ level based clones over and over?

Easy answer, bro.
#1. Because they are cheaper and easier to produce. There's ZERO complexity to these games so coding them is FAR easier.
#2. UO got away with open PvP because it was the only show in town at the time. Living or dealing with the inherent tribulations of open PvP was something we were all, PvP'r and PvE'r, forced to do if we wanted to play and we eventually saw the beauty of it. Now-a-days there are so many other options that are safer and easier, that getting Joe Gamer to willfully put himself in the jungle of open PvP you would need to give him incentive to do so and, at that point, you need to develop a game that offers the benefits of PvE only in a PvP world. Open PvP can no longer be the only answer. Not easy, but doable as I've been playing around with a lot of constructs to make it possible....but, then again, now you're having to hire actually designers who will need to spend lots of time drawing it all out when you can just hire programmers to start immediately to copy what's already been done.

I suppose and I guess the genre continues to errode because of it IMO. It will be interesting to see if WoW has the ability to hold its player base over the longer haul.
No denying it has been way bigger than expected to date.

 

[Velk]

Originally posted by: Genx87
skace: You bring up a good point. If these always break down into UO lovefests why havent the developers got the hint?

Because UO was not very successfull, and has kept alive by dropping a number of the unique innovative features that people wax nostalgic about.

Now it's possible that UO would have been dramatically more successfull if it had better graphics - but are you willing to stake $10 mil of development costs on that ? And if you are, are you able to convince your substantially more cautious backers that you are right ?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Velk

Originally posted by: Genx87
skace: You bring up a good point. If these always break down into UO lovefests why havent the developers got the hint?

Because UO was not very successfull, and has kept alive by dropping a number of the unique innovative features that people wax nostalgic about.

Now it's possible that UO would have been dramatically more successfull if it had better graphics - but are you willing to stake $10 mil of development costs on that ? And if you are, are you able to convince your substantially more cautious backers that you are right ?

UO has been around for 8 years as a cash cow. You telling me a game that is 8 years old and still has an active account balance over over 100,000 wasnt successful?

People who put value in the graphics of an MMORPG above gameplay make me laugh, they really do.

 

[Velk]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Velk

Originally posted by: Genx87
skace: You bring up a good point. If these always break down into UO lovefests why havent the developers got the hint?

Because UO was not very successfull, and has kept alive by dropping a number of the unique innovative features that people wax nostalgic about.

Now it's possible that UO would have been dramatically more successfull if it had better graphics - but are you willing to stake $10 mil of development costs on that ? And if you are, are you able to convince your substantially more cautious backers that you are right ?

UO has been around for 8 years as a cash cow. You telling me a game that is 8 years old and still has an active account balance over over 100,000 wasnt successful?

People who put value in the graphics of an MMORPG above gameplay make me laugh, they really do.

Yes, I am telling you exactly that. It had a small market share when it was one of the only MMOs on the market, and if it was released today as it was originally, it would flop and not come close to breaking even.

Laugh as much as you want, but if you disregard graphics, and believe that the gameplay of UO was vastly superior, why did 5 people go to EQ for every one that went to UO ? No doubt for the huge name/brand recognition verant had over origin systems ? 8)

 

[CKent]

HeroOfPellinor, you don't seem to understand that not everyone likes or has to like PvP. The same arguments you make against PvE (you say it's repetitive and boring) perfectly describe how I feel about PvP - 1) pwn 2) be pwnt 3) repeat. The difference is I'm all for having separate servers with the option, for those who enjoy it (though to be honest, most of us in EQ saw the Zeks as excellent kiddie filters). I'm not so egomaniacal as to think my way is the only way and should be for everyone else. An MMORPG you would probably consider ideal would be a horror story for me, getting ganked left and right by 12 year olds with too much time on their hands, hammering home the immersive fantasy setting with statements like "lolololol u r pr4wnt!!11!!11" and "wut y 4 plz 2 b ne1"... Ugh! IMO, EQ on a PvE server was the pinnacle of MMORPGs, until Brad left and Planes was released.

On the other hand, I agree that the current MMORPG market is pretty sad right now for hardcore gamers. The problem is money, of course. A game like WoW sells because most people don't play very often or for very long, and want to be able to log on for an hour or two and feel they accomplished something - whether they could find a group or not. Those who want more out of an MMORPG simply make up too small a share of the market for them to matter. If WoW had any real meat to it, it would alienate the largest segment of its playerbase by being too involved. When the genre was in its infancy, this wasn't important because it wasn't on the radar of big corporations like Sony, Blizzard and Microsoft. Now that the genre has the attention of the public though, an MMORPG we truly enjoy may never exist, as there's now more competition and games must not only subsist, but turn a profit. Such is the way of the world for the uncommon man.