World of Warcraft - How far have you gotten?

[CKent]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: ggnl

So my character should be trivialized and totally non-effective in pvp because you have more time to play than I do? It's not lack of skill or interest that keeps me from raiding, I have real life responsibilities that take precedence. What are players like me supposed to do, just give up once we get our blue sets?

Yeah. I feel the same way. I mean, why should that guy that works 65+ hours at work get the raise and promotion? It's not lack of knowledge or training that keeps me from working hard. I have nightly WoW raids to do and can only make it in after 11am. Why should my work and paycheck be trivialized because I have non-real world responsibilites that take precedence? What are players like me supposed to do, just go on unemployment once we down Nefarion?

Hmmm?

Nice strawman.

That's called an analogy, not a strawman, my dear. The point being, that you can never, ever have your cake and eat it. If you are going to have priorities in life, those items low on the list will suffer in performance or satisfaction.

Whereas the OP has definitely made the right choice, IMO, to place real-life responsibilities over gaming ones, he should still not expect to attain the same levels of performance as those who have their priorities reversed. Which was the whole point of my flip-comparison.

And anyone who thinks that being decked out in blue items from 5-man instance runs is "useless" and "trivialized" in the game should just quit now. That kind of near-sighted, incorrect, defeatist attitude will guarantee that you'll not enjoy playing. Save your $15/month.

It's a strawman. Nobody's claiming raid gear shouldn't be better; at issue is the degree to which it is. Avoiding that makes your agenda pretty obvious 😉

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: ggnl

Yup. Game =! job, even if you do play 40 hours a week.

Another one who completely missed the point.

Ok, fine. Let me knock this down another notch.

Say I take up karate. Does the fact that I can't practice and train 10+ hours day (because of work, family, etc) make it "unfair" that I'll get my ass kicked by life-long backbelts?

What if I take up swimming? Does the fact that I can't practice and train 10+ hours day (because of work, family, etc) make it "unfair" that I'll never win a medal in the Olympics?

What if I take up real estate investing? Does the fact that I can't research and look for deals 10+ hours day (because of work, family, etc) make it "unfair" that I'll never be richer than Trump?

I don't understand what you mean by "fair." Your efforts are not 'trivialized' simply because there are others who are more dedicated and have more time. If you are not happy with your performance, you can either step it up, or give up. I don't understand the whole concept of of "OMG! Other people are doing better than me. Slow them down somehow or I'll never catch up at my slower pace!"

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: ggnl

Yup. Game =! job, even if you do play 40 hours a week.

Another one who completely missed the point.

Ok, fine. Let me knock this down another notch.

Say I take up karate. Does the fact that I can't practice and train 10+ hours day (because of work, family, etc) make it "unfair" that I'll get my ass kicked by life-long backbelts?

What if I take up swimming? Does the fact that I can't practice and train 10+ hours day (because of work, family, etc) make it "unfair" that I'll never win a medal in the Olympics?

What if I take up real estate investing? Does the fact that I can't research and look for deals 10+ hours day (because of work, family, etc) make it "unfair" that I'll never be richer than Trump?

I don't understand what you mean by "fair." Your efforts are not 'trivialized' simply because there are others who are more dedicated and have more time. If you are not happy with your performance, you can either step it up, or give up. I don't understand the whole concept of of "OMG! Other people are doing better than me. Slow them down somehow or I'll never catch up at my slower pace!"

Nice strawman 😉

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: RBachman

It's a strawman. Nobody's claiming raid gear shouldn't be better; at issue is the degree to which it is. Avoiding that makes your agenda pretty obvious 😉

Agenda? What possible "agenda" could I have. 😕

What you see as avoidance is merely inattentivel\ness on your part. If you back up half-a-dozen posts, you'll see where I addressed uber gear and how I certainly don't see the huge gap you perceive.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: RBachman

Nice strawman 😉

😀 I just don't see how a few weeks ago you were making the exact opposite arguments - that casual players had an "entitlement" mentality that they should have the same gear that you worked hard for.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: RBachman

It's a strawman. Nobody's claiming raid gear shouldn't be better; at issue is the degree to which it is. Avoiding that makes your agenda pretty obvious 😉

Agenda? What possible "agenda" could I have. 😕

What you see as avoidance is merely inattentivel\ness on your part. If you back up half-a-dozen posts, you'll see where I addressed uber gear and how I certainly don't see the huge gap you perceive.

You don't see a huge gap between, say, 54 dps and 80 dps on a 2handed weapon? You didn't address the gear gap, you erected a strawman and knocked it down, and ignored me when I called you on it. Unless you'd care to address the actual point, I'd say we're at a standstill here.

 

[Vortex22]

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: RBachman

It's a strawman. Nobody's claiming raid gear shouldn't be better; at issue is the degree to which it is. Avoiding that makes your agenda pretty obvious 😉

Agenda? What possible "agenda" could I have. 😕

What you see as avoidance is merely inattentivel\ness on your part. If you back up half-a-dozen posts, you'll see where I addressed uber gear and how I certainly don't see the huge gap you perceive.

You don't see a huge gap between, say, 54 dps and 80 dps on a 2handed weapon? You didn't address the gear gap, you erected a strawman and knocked it down, and ignored me when I called you on it. Unless you'd care to address the actual point, I'd say we're at a standstill here.

The DPS stated on a weapon is really irrelevant. It's all about the max damage since the majority of your damage comes from instant attacks. A weapon With 100 dps but only 1 second attack speed is far inferior to a weapon with 60 dps and 3.8 sec swing speed.
Anyway, if you make the gap between gear from trivial (in comparison) 5 man instances and 40 man raids, there will be no incentive for people to advance their character. Just because the 'casual' people aren't able to achieve the best items doesn't mean that they should still be able to stand toe to toe with those who HAVE put in the time and effort to get the epics. The amount of time and effort put into getting 40 people together and organized for something like BWL is exponentially greater than a casual DM run, and the rewards should reflect that difference.

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: ggnl

Yup. Game =! job, even if you do play 40 hours a week.

Another one who completely missed the point.

Ok, fine. Let me knock this down another notch.

blah blah blah blah...

I don't understand what you mean by "fair." Your efforts are not 'trivialized' simply because there are others who are more dedicated and have more time. If you are not happy with your performance, you can either step it up, or give up. I don't understand the whole concept of of "OMG! Other people are doing better than me. Slow them down somehow or I'll never catch up at my slower pace!"

It's not just about the amount of time invested. Trust me, I've spent plenty of hours grinding to exalted rep in AV. I got a few epics out of it, but nothing near the quality I would have gotten if I had spent all those hours in MC. The difference is that AV faction can be done an 1-2 hours at a time, at my leisure, over the course of several weeks/months, while MC requires me to dedicate large blocks of time at the guild's discretion.

My problem isn't with the time required to get the gear, it's the notion that all the best gear has to come from 40-man instances.

 

[DPmaster]

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: RBachman

It's a strawman. Nobody's claiming raid gear shouldn't be better; at issue is the degree to which it is. Avoiding that makes your agenda pretty obvious 😉

Agenda? What possible "agenda" could I have. 😕

What you see as avoidance is merely inattentivel\ness on your part. If you back up half-a-dozen posts, you'll see where I addressed uber gear and how I certainly don't see the huge gap you perceive.

You don't see a huge gap between, say, 54 dps and 80 dps on a 2handed weapon? You didn't address the gear gap, you erected a strawman and knocked it down, and ignored me when I called you on it. Unless you'd care to address the actual point, I'd say we're at a standstill here.

That's a pretty good sized gap between those two weapons but that doesn't really matter. The reason is that 80 dps 2handed weapon isn't required for anything. It's not like the game will stop working for you if you don't get it. It's simply a "carrot on a stick". It's a reward for those very few dedicated players.

You can get by with lesser items just fine. I've seen lvl 56 chars wear grey armor and be perfectly happy. I'm fine with my green items. If a player really, really wants those items, they will find ways to get it.

Yes there is a gap between a 54 dps weapon and a 80 dps weapon but so what? Maybe I'm missing something but I still don't see what the big problem is.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: RBachman

It's a strawman. Nobody's claiming raid gear shouldn't be better; at issue is the degree to which it is. Avoiding that makes your agenda pretty obvious 😉

Agenda? What possible "agenda" could I have. 😕

What you see as avoidance is merely inattentivel\ness on your part. If you back up half-a-dozen posts, you'll see where I addressed uber gear and how I certainly don't see the huge gap you perceive.

You don't see a huge gap between, say, 54 dps and 80 dps on a 2handed weapon? You didn't address the gear gap, you erected a strawman and knocked it down, and ignored me when I called you on it. Unless you'd care to address the actual point, I'd say we're at a standstill here.

Keep backing up. When you see the post where I discuss how our blue-item guild can hang with the epic- and legendary-geared in battlegrounds, then stop. Read. Notice point addressed. Throw away you newly-learned and already overused logical fallacy. Discuss.

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: Vortex22

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: RBachman

It's a strawman. Nobody's claiming raid gear shouldn't be better; at issue is the degree to which it is. Avoiding that makes your agenda pretty obvious 😉

Agenda? What possible "agenda" could I have. 😕

What you see as avoidance is merely inattentivel\ness on your part. If you back up half-a-dozen posts, you'll see where I addressed uber gear and how I certainly don't see the huge gap you perceive.

You don't see a huge gap between, say, 54 dps and 80 dps on a 2handed weapon? You didn't address the gear gap, you erected a strawman and knocked it down, and ignored me when I called you on it. Unless you'd care to address the actual point, I'd say we're at a standstill here.

The DPS stated on a weapon is really irrelevant. It's all about the max damage since the majority of your damage comes from instant attacks. A weapon With 100 dps but only 1 second attack speed is far inferior to a weapon with 60 dps and 3.8 sec swing speed.
Anyway, if you make the gap between gear from trivial (in comparison) 5 man instances and 40 man raids, there will be no incentive for people to advance their character. Just because the 'casual' people aren't able to achieve the best items doesn't mean that they should still be able to stand toe to toe with those who HAVE put in the time and effort to get the epics. The amount of time and effort put into getting 40 people together and organized for something like BWL is exponentially greater than a casual DM run, and the rewards should reflect that difference.

Weapon speed was made irrelevant to instant attacks in 1.8. All weapons use the same speed modifier now. IIRC 2h weapons are 3.3, 1h weapons are 2.3 and daggers are 1.6. So yeah, DPS matters a lot.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: ggnl

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: ggnl

Yup. Game =! job, even if you do play 40 hours a week.

Another one who completely missed the point.

Ok, fine. Let me knock this down another notch.

blah blah blah blah...

I don't understand what you mean by "fair." Your efforts are not 'trivialized' simply because there are others who are more dedicated and have more time. If you are not happy with your performance, you can either step it up, or give up. I don't understand the whole concept of of "OMG! Other people are doing better than me. Slow them down somehow or I'll never catch up at my slower pace!"

It's not just about the amount of time invested. Trust me, I've spent plenty of hours grinding to exalted rep in AV. I got a few epics out of it, but nothing near the quality I would have gotten if I had spent all those hours in MC. The difference is that AV faction can be done an 1-2 hours at a time, at my leisure, over the course of several weeks/months, while MC requires me to dedicate large blocks of time at the guild's discretion.

My problem isn't with the time required to get the gear, it's the notion that all the best gear has to come from 40-man instances.

Well now see. I don't even have a revered status with any faction, because I don't grind for rep. So by your logic, I think your items should nerfed. It's not fair that you have the patience to grind monotonously for reputation, whereas my brain simply can't handle that boring task. Why should you be rewarded for that?

Notice how damn near every single player can come up with a reason why other players should not have what they have? How every other class but theirs should be nerfed? How everyone who has a different play style or play schedule should be penalized? Where does it stop?

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: ggnl

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: ggnl

Yup. Game =! job, even if you do play 40 hours a week.

Another one who completely missed the point.

Ok, fine. Let me knock this down another notch.

blah blah blah blah...

I don't understand what you mean by "fair." Your efforts are not 'trivialized' simply because there are others who are more dedicated and have more time. If you are not happy with your performance, you can either step it up, or give up. I don't understand the whole concept of of "OMG! Other people are doing better than me. Slow them down somehow or I'll never catch up at my slower pace!"

It's not just about the amount of time invested. Trust me, I've spent plenty of hours grinding to exalted rep in AV. I got a few epics out of it, but nothing near the quality I would have gotten if I had spent all those hours in MC. The difference is that AV faction can be done an 1-2 hours at a time, at my leisure, over the course of several weeks/months, while MC requires me to dedicate large blocks of time at the guild's discretion.

My problem isn't with the time required to get the gear, it's the notion that all the best gear has to come from 40-man instances.

arnt they changeing that with the new expansion, i just red about it in pcgamer IIRC,

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Vortex22
The DPS stated on a weapon is really irrelevant. It's all about the max damage since the majority of your damage comes from instant attacks. A weapon With 100 dps but only 1 second attack speed is far inferior to a weapon with 60 dps and 3.8 sec swing speed.

Irrelevant? You new to this game? 😉 Even for rogues - the most instant-reliant class in the game - a weapon's dps is more important than its damage range. As a 17/34/0 sword rogue, only 20-25% of my damage comes from Sinister Strike. The rest is comprised of mainly autoattack melee and eviscerate, which isn't based on weapon damage.

Anyway, if you make the gap between gear from trivial (in comparison) 5 man instances and 40 man raids, there will be no incentive for people to advance their character.

That's exactly the problem; designing the game to revolve around raids. Imagine only raiding if you liked it. Imagine an intricate and immersive game which could capture your attention and offer paths for advancement without raiding, but while still justly rewarding those who enjoy and tackle the most difficult content.

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Keep backing up. When you see the post where I discuss how our blue-item guild can hang with the epic- and legendary-geared in battlegrounds, then stop. Read. Notice point addressed. Throw away you newly-learned and already overused logical fallacy. Discuss.

When you fall back on anecdotes you've lost. GG.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Keep backing up. When you see the post where I discuss how our blue-item guild can hang with the epic- and legendary-geared in battlegrounds, then stop. Read. Notice point addressed. Throw away you newly-learned and already overused logical fallacy. Discuss.

When you fall back on anecdotes you've lost. GG.

I've lost? 😕 (psst.. you're not in-game right now.)

So.. what do you want? What can someone post to show that epic-geared players are not 10x superior to non epic-equipped players, if not anecdotal evidence of this?

 

[Tremulant]

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: Vortex22
The DPS stated on a weapon is really irrelevant. It's all about the max damage since the majority of your damage comes from instant attacks. A weapon With 100 dps but only 1 second attack speed is far inferior to a weapon with 60 dps and 3.8 sec swing speed.

Irrelevant? You new to this game? 😉 Even for rogues - the most instant-reliant class in the game - a weapon's dps is more important than its damage range. As a 17/34/0 sword rogue, only 20-25% of my damage comes from Sinister Strike. The rest is comprised of mainly autoattack melee and eviscerate, which isn't based on weapon damage.

Maybe for sword rogues.

For Dagger rogues, damage range is definitely more important than DPS because of Ambush and Backstab. Even with the normalization, the higher damage range is still slightly better than a lower one. Although, the normalization did make the fast daggers more effective, the slower ones still out-damage them.

That's why a lvl 50 blue dagger (barman shanker) is one of the best daggers before MC or being exalted w/ AV.

I'd explain why a higher damage range is more important for white damage in PvP, but you don't PvP, so it's really not relevant.

@ggnl: Daggers are 1.8, 1h are 2.4. Not sure about 2h weapons, but 3.3 sounds right.


Edit: Forgot to clarify.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Keep backing up. When you see the post where I discuss how our blue-item guild can hang with the epic- and legendary-geared in battlegrounds, then stop. Read. Notice point addressed. Throw away you newly-learned and already overused logical fallacy. Discuss.

When you fall back on anecdotes you've lost. GG.

I've lost? 😕 (psst.. you're not in-game right now.)

So.. what do you want? What can someone post to show that epic-geared players are not 10x superior to non epic-equipped players, if not anecdotal evidence of this?

If there were a way to catalogue & DB encoutners between players, that would suffice. Without it, logic must substitute. Better gear means more survivability and more damage output. Since success in this game depends on survivability and damage output, better gear = success.

Anecdotal reasoning allows for selective perception and places too much emphasis on personal experience, which is usually too small a sample to draw accurate conclusions from.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Tremulant

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: Vortex22
The DPS stated on a weapon is really irrelevant. It's all about the max damage since the majority of your damage comes from instant attacks. A weapon With 100 dps but only 1 second attack speed is far inferior to a weapon with 60 dps and 3.8 sec swing speed.

Irrelevant? You new to this game? 😉 Even for rogues - the most instant-reliant class in the game - a weapon's dps is more important than its damage range. As a 17/34/0 sword rogue, only 20-25% of my damage comes from Sinister Strike. The rest is comprised of mainly autoattack melee and eviscerate, which isn't based on weapon damage.

Maybe for sword rogues.

For Dagger rogues, damage range is definitely more important than DPS.

That's why a lvl 50 blue dagger (barman shanker) is one of the best daggers before MC or being exalted w/ AV.

I'd explain why a higher damage range is more important for white damage in PvP, but you don't PvP, so it's really not relevant.

@ggnl: Daggers are 1.8, 1h are 2.4. Not sure about 2h weapons, but 3.3 sounds right.

Rogues are just one of nine classes, a large number don't go daggers, and for those who do, damage range is only important in the mainhand. If Vortex22 was speaking only about such a small subset of situations where range > dps, he should have said so; his implication was that he was speaking about all weapons when wielded by all classes, in either hand.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: RBachman
If there were a way to catalogue & DB encoutners between players, that would suffice. Without it, logic must substitute. Better gear means more survivability and more damage output. Since success in this game depends on survivability and damage output, better gear = success.

So, we're back to wanting all gear being equal for all players, regardless of how it was obtained?

Also, this only applies to PvP. If you don't PvP, the gear of other players has ZERO effect on you and your ability to play the game. So, as you are someone who has repeatedly voiced his abhorrence to PvP play, why do you care at all?

 

[Tremulant]

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: Tremulant

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: Vortex22
The DPS stated on a weapon is really irrelevant. It's all about the max damage since the majority of your damage comes from instant attacks. A weapon With 100 dps but only 1 second attack speed is far inferior to a weapon with 60 dps and 3.8 sec swing speed.

Irrelevant? You new to this game? 😉 Even for rogues - the most instant-reliant class in the game - a weapon's dps is more important than its damage range. As a 17/34/0 sword rogue, only 20-25% of my damage comes from Sinister Strike. The rest is comprised of mainly autoattack melee and eviscerate, which isn't based on weapon damage.

Maybe for sword rogues.

For Dagger rogues, damage range is definitely more important than DPS.

That's why a lvl 50 blue dagger (barman shanker) is one of the best daggers before MC or being exalted w/ AV.

I'd explain why a higher damage range is more important for white damage in PvP, but you don't PvP, so it's really not relevant.

@ggnl: Daggers are 1.8, 1h are 2.4. Not sure about 2h weapons, but 3.3 sounds right.

Rogues are just one of nine classes, a large number don't go daggers, and for those who do, damage range is only important in the mainhand. If Vortex22 was speaking only about such a small subset of situations where range > dps, he should have said so; his implication was that he was speaking about all weapons when wielded by all classes, in either hand.

I believe that Warriors also go for damage range, atleast for PvP, because the harder you hit, the less swings it takes. (someone correct me if I'm wrong) And there are times when you only have the chance to get in one swing, so you want to make it count. The same could be said for PvE, but it's a rare occurence (the only one that comes to mind for me is when hell breaks loose or someone aggros something they shouldn't and you have to play clean up)

Once my rogue hits 60 and he's geared nicely, I plan to get my warrior (currently lvl 9) to 60 as well. I want to compare the two.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Tremulant

Originally posted by: RBachman

Irrelevant? You new to this game? 😉 Even for rogues - the most instant-reliant class in the game - a weapon's dps is more important than its damage range. As a 17/34/0 sword rogue, only 20-25% of my damage comes from Sinister Strike.

Maybe for sword rogues.

The only phrase funnier than "sword rogues" is "melee hunters." 😉

 

[Tremulant]

Originally posted by: MajorMullet

Originally posted by: Anubis
how the hell do you hit 60 in 7 days? ive bene playing for almost 2 weeks and im only lvl 24

I want to know this as well

7 days if you do a /played

Edit:

The average, from what I've seen, is closer to 13 days /played.

My rogue is at almost 16 or 17 days /played and he's 59. But I've also spent time enjoying the game.

Also, to get 60 in 7 days /played, you pretty much need to know exactly where to lvl and which quests are worth doing.

Edit2: And, if you get to 60 in 7 days /played, it's pretty much a non-stop grind.

 

[Vortex22]

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: Tremulant

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: Vortex22
The DPS stated on a weapon is really irrelevant. It's all about the max damage since the majority of your damage comes from instant attacks. A weapon With 100 dps but only 1 second attack speed is far inferior to a weapon with 60 dps and 3.8 sec swing speed.

Irrelevant? You new to this game? 😉 Even for rogues - the most instant-reliant class in the game - a weapon's dps is more important than its damage range. As a 17/34/0 sword rogue, only 20-25% of my damage comes from Sinister Strike. The rest is comprised of mainly autoattack melee and eviscerate, which isn't based on weapon damage.

Maybe for sword rogues.

For Dagger rogues, damage range is definitely more important than DPS.

That's why a lvl 50 blue dagger (barman shanker) is one of the best daggers before MC or being exalted w/ AV.

I'd explain why a higher damage range is more important for white damage in PvP, but you don't PvP, so it's really not relevant.

@ggnl: Daggers are 1.8, 1h are 2.4. Not sure about 2h weapons, but 3.3 sounds right.

Rogues are just one of nine classes, a large number don't go daggers, and for those who do, damage range is only important in the mainhand. If Vortex22 was speaking only about such a small subset of situations where range > dps, he should have said so; his implication was that he was speaking about all weapons when wielded by all classes, in either hand.

Lets take a look at the non caster classes. I will only be discussing PvP, because there is no point to whining about not having epics for PvE when you only participate in the smaller instances and encounters that are designed to be completed by players without epic equipment.

Hunters - What's the best way to kill someone? Aimed - Multi - Autoshot. Where does the most damage come from? Aimed and multi. How is the damage calculated for those abilities? The weapon damage, DPS irrelevant. Higher DPS weapons are much better for PvE though.

Rogues - Dagger rogues are highly reliant on the max weapon damage for Ambush and Backstab, their two most commonly used abilities in PvP. Sword rogues rely more on SS (which is still based on weapon damage, not DPS) and autoattack, which is reliant on DPS. However, sword rogues are generally specced that way to excel in PvE damage, as dagger builds are usually superior in PvP.

Warriors - By far the most common spec is Arms. Most of the warrior's damage comes from Mortal Strike, one of the most notoriously powerful abilities in the game. As an instant attack, MS is totally dependent on weapon damage, and ignores DPS.

Shaman and Pallies - Both are pretty reliant on weapon DPS, although neither are really known for their melee prowess.

Higher DPS epic weapons are obviously better, but looking at the DPS stated on a weapon is hardly an accurate indicator of that weapon's worth. You seem to grasping at straws to prove that you deserve the power that raiders have without having put the same time and effort into the game as they have. I've been playing since beta, and I've seen just about everything currently available in the game, so it might not be wise to indirectly call me a noob just to prove an invalid point.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: RBachman
If there were a way to catalogue & DB encoutners between players, that would suffice. Without it, logic must substitute. Better gear means more survivability and more damage output. Since success in this game depends on survivability and damage output, better gear = success.

So, we're back to wanting all gear being equal for all players, regardless of how it was obtained?

I've repeatedly stated that the gap should be there, but simply not as big, and your only argument relies on ignoring this and pigeonholing me, a raider, into the whiny "casual" camp? 😕

Also, this only applies to PvP. If you don't PvP, the gear of other players has ZERO effect on you and your ability to play the game. So, as you are someone who has repeatedly voiced his abhorrence to PvP play, why do you care at all?

PvE content is designed with players' gearing in mind, and devs who spend 90% of their time designing raid encounter after raid encounter seem prone to assuming everyone's decked out in epics. Regardless, a huge number of people are unhappy with the glass ceiling in this game, read the boards some time. I know being on top is comfy, but don't assume that because you're happy with the state of affairs, everyone else should be or is wrong. It's not about being equal to raiders with less time spent, it's about having character advancement available - something lacking in post-PoP EQ, and which those EQ devs that came over to Blizzard have obviously brought with them.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Vortex22
The DPS stated on a weapon is really irrelevant.

Originally posted by: Vortex22
Higher DPS epic weapons are obviously better

Which is it?

You're contradicting yourself and admitting range is only a consideration for three classes, and only in PvP - and claiming I'm the one grasping at straws? 😕