World of Warcraft Grouping / Instance Question

[nageov3t]

I figure that if I post here, I have the least chance of getting flamed with the "wtfbbq roll a new character" responses

I play a rogue. spec'd 30/2/19 (cold blood / improved sap). I'm not really sure what my role is supposed to be in the endgame instances (both 40/10-man raids and 5-man scholo/strath/etc runs), though, and the closer I get to 60, the more I've been thinking about it. especially as I start farming my class armor set.

 

[FearoftheNight]

CC via improved sap. Single target dps.

Oh yea and roll a real class .

 

[Chompman]

Not sure how it's been since I quit wow after being lvl 60 for a time but there were to many rogues at the time.

Almost every server had rogue as the #1 class played and for instances you really only needed maybe 2 at max and this was before they nerfed the amount of people that can be in a instance at once with a group so changes are it will even be harder to get into a instance group unless you are in a guild or know the people in real life.

For pvp rogues are fun but for instances play something new, there probly are still to many rogues to get in many instances.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Chompman
it will even be harder to get into a instance group unless you are in a guild or know the people in real life.

I'm in a guild and know people in real life my sister, her boyfriend, my roommate, and his brother all play on my server

 

[effee]

anyone on argent dawn?

 

[Chompman]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: Chompman
it will even be harder to get into a instance group unless you are in a guild or know the people in real life.

I'm in a guild and know people in real life my sister, her boyfriend, my roommate, and his brother all play on my server

Then they might take pity on you.

Otherwise for most the later instances rogues are useless with the exception of some saps but lot of the high lvl stuff see you sneaking on them or are immune to the skill.

Your main skill is pvp and ganking.

I just hope your not one of the rogues that try pick pocket the npcs and train 10 stuff on your party. Those are fun to play with.

 

[abaez]

You are DPS. DPS needed for ragnaros and other bosses.

 

[Velk]

Originally posted by: Chompman

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: Chompman
it will even be harder to get into a instance group unless you are in a guild or know the people in real life.

I'm in a guild and know people in real life my sister, her boyfriend, my roommate, and his brother all play on my server

Then they might take pity on you.

Otherwise for most the later instances rogues are useless with the exception of some saps but lot of the high lvl stuff see you sneaking on them or are immune to the skill.

To complete instances you need to kill monsters. To kill monsters you need to do damage. There is noone inherently better at damage than a rogue.

Sap crowd control at the high end is not a major role, partly because it's rarely needed, partly because it is slow, and partly because if it fails you end up in a worse position than not having tried in the first place.

Apart from pure damage, which rogues excel at, they also provide some quite helpful abilities for a group, particularly snare and mind numbing poisons, as well as spell interupts via kick and gouge.

Problems with rogues getting pickup groups in the high end has absolutely nothing to do with how useful they are to a group, it's just a reflection of how many of them there are.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Velk

Originally posted by: Chompman

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: Chompman
it will even be harder to get into a instance group unless you are in a guild or know the people in real life.

I'm in a guild and know people in real life my sister, her boyfriend, my roommate, and his brother all play on my server

Then they might take pity on you.

Otherwise for most the later instances rogues are useless with the exception of some saps but lot of the high lvl stuff see you sneaking on them or are immune to the skill.

To complete instances you need to kill monsters. To kill monsters you need to do damage. There is noone inherently better at damage than a rogue. .

Mage is better against non squishy enemies than a rogue. They are also ranged and can hit them from a ways off while the warrior is tanking and the warrior has time to send out a taunt if the damage dealer is not standing next to the enemy that they are fighting. Polymorph is superior to SAP unless the rogue has the ability to return to stealth upon sapping. Mage can also do a "kick" at range (counterspell which if spec right can also silence).

Fact is, Rogue (while i enjoy playing them) is not part of the holy trinity and therefore you should not expect to get great treatment from groups. That and there are so darn many of them on PvP servers, half the faction seems to be a rogue. The advantage is that if you get an all rogue group together, you could all stealth back to the boss of an instance and stunlock him into submission. I have done this many times on my rogue.

I strongly disliked having rogues in my group when i was a priest. Most of the ones i grouped with did not buy the aggro reducing ability and they pulled aggro of the tank and sometimes the mobs even one shotted them since they are in close range with them (rather than a mage who has some distance and will give time for the warrior to taunt). They also caused me to use more mana to heal them more often because they wore leather rather than plate when they pulled aggro off the tank and lived.

Add also to the fact that mage can produce water for the priest (who is usually the most hard to find class), and you will find that groups will usually chose a mage over a rogue when they need DPS.

 

[abaez]

Mages in Molten Core before this patch were resisted like crazy (hence the upcoming change), so I don't know how you see mage was better than a rogue for pure DPS. That and the fact that mages were limited to basically being a frost mage because fire is useless in MC.

Also, rogues pulling aggro is their problem as well. For most guilds, if rogues take aggro and damage they need to back off and bandage or they die, healing mana is for the main tank and other more important classes. They quickly learn after a few runs.

 

[Chompman]

Originally posted by: abaez
Mages in Molten Core before this patch were resisted like crazy (hence the upcoming change), so I don't know how you see mage was better than a rogue for pure DPS. That and the fact that mages were limited to basically being a frost mage because fire is useless in MC.

Also, rogues pulling aggro is their problem as well. For most guilds, if rogues take aggro and damage they need to back off and bandage or they die, healing mana is for the main tank and other more important classes. They quickly learn after a few runs.

Well since that the molten core you are talking about and mostly fire type mobs one would think fire spells wouldn't do that much of damage.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Chompman

Originally posted by: abaez
Mages in Molten Core before this patch were resisted like crazy (hence the upcoming change), so I don't know how you see mage was better than a rogue for pure DPS. That and the fact that mages were limited to basically being a frost mage because fire is useless in MC.

Also, rogues pulling aggro is their problem as well. For most guilds, if rogues take aggro and damage they need to back off and bandage or they die, healing mana is for the main tank and other more important classes. They quickly learn after a few runs.

Well since that the molten core you are talking about and mostly fire type mobs one would think fire spells wouldn't do that much of damage.

It is also fun hearing daggers hitting 10,000 armor. Arcane FTW.

 

[Cheetah8799]

There are so many rogues it may be hard to get into any MC or Onyxia groups, or the latest Blackwing Lair instance. I've not played WoW for a couple months now, but as a shaman most people told me to ignore healing rogues in the large 40-man raids. Just focus on keeping tanks and priests alive first. Most other healers did the same. So you better make sure you can keep yourself alive with heavy runecloth bandages in the instances or you may end up dead a lot...

 

[Velk]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: Velk

Originally posted by: Chompman

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: Chompman
it will even be harder to get into a instance group unless you are in a guild or know the people in real life.

I'm in a guild and know people in real life my sister, her boyfriend, my roommate, and his brother all play on my server

Then they might take pity on you.

Otherwise for most the later instances rogues are useless with the exception of some saps but lot of the high lvl stuff see you sneaking on them or are immune to the skill.

To complete instances you need to kill monsters. To kill monsters you need to do damage. There is noone inherently better at damage than a rogue. .

Mage is better against non squishy enemies than a rogue. They are also ranged and can hit them from a ways off while the warrior is tanking and the warrior has time to send out a taunt if the damage dealer is not standing next to the enemy that they are fighting. Polymorph is superior to SAP unless the rogue has the ability to return to stealth upon sapping. Mage can also do a "kick" at range (counterspell which if spec right can also silence).

Mage single target damage is worse than rogues and 2h warriors - they just can't keep up the dps with a fast pace set by decent tanks and healers. Being ranged is a double edged sword, as the warrior having to chase a mob that peels off after a ranged attacker like a mage or hunter, loses aggro on all the other mobs and has to run around dazed by the rest of the pack while chasing the damn thing to get into melee/taunt range. From a warrior perspective, losing aggro to a rogue is vastly preferrable to losing aggro to a mage ( or worse a hunter.. grrr... )

I agree that polymorph is always superior to sap, regardless of whether the rogue has improved sap or not, and the reason for mentioning spell interrupts is that you can never have too many of them, as it's impossible for a single person to lock down even one mob by themselves.

Fact is, Rogue (while i enjoy playing them) is not part of the holy trinity and therefore you should not expect to get great treatment from groups. That and there are so darn many of them on PvP servers, half the faction seems to be a rogue.

"Holy trinity" is a product of people with no imagination or flexibility. Even for those that adhere to it like a religion, it still only fills 3 of 5 group spots.

Add also to the fact that mage can produce water for the priest (who is usually the most hard to find class), and you will find that groups will usually chose a mage over a rogue when they need DPS.

Or a mage and a rogue, or a mage and two rogues. Really you work with what you have.