World of Warcraft - are Death knights useless?

Xylitol

Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2005
6,617
0
76
It seems like there's a huge influx of death knights. I've had a 70 warrior tank for as long as I can remember, but I just made a death knight and got him to 60. It seems like there are death knights everywhere, but then again, I'm only at hellfire penn. right now.

Is there a huge amount of death knights in raids/instances? I can only assume that that # will only grow...
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
35,285
2,418
126
They aren't useless, they're just popular. Since there are a lot of people playing them, there are a lot of *bad* people playing them.

They can give casters a bad day and they can do some nice DPS in dungeons.

I'll stick to my Shaman though.
 

DangerAardvark

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2004
7,559
0
0
Aside from topping DPS meters, offtanking, and ruling PVP with an iron fist... yeah, they're pretty much useless.
 

Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
9,922
0
76
Originally posted by: videogames101
Except for the fact you can run most 5-mans with 5 DKs....


(Which is really messed up)

You've always been able to do this with paladins, but that doesn't make them a particularly good class (a little underpowered if anything, except as healers)

Or druids (same problem, the tank/DPS trees are slightly underpowered for various reasons), you can run most 5-mans with just druids
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
ok I've never played this game. i've never looked at ingame footage. What is the appeal? Its a 3rd person right? And you mouse over enemies and "click" and based on the weapon you have readied and the defenses they have readied you do whatever damage? Is that about right?
 

coloumb

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,069
0
81
Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
Originally posted by: lupi
if only there was some thread to talk about wow stuff...

Yeah maybe someone should create one.

/tradechat channel:

LFG for Slave Pens!!!1!!!!

====================
/lfg channel:

<DND>WR@R@RW - buy wow.gold from www1mmog-0ld-com. special today for wotlk accounts!

Need I say more? :)

 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
ok I've never played this game. i've never looked at ingame footage. What is the appeal? Its a 3rd person right? And you mouse over enemies and "click" and based on the weapon you have readied and the defenses they have readied you do whatever damage? Is that about right?

It's all in the details and numbers. It's not a mindless FPS. If you care about gear, you care about advancing skills, you care about teamwork... this is for you. If not, there's no shame in that either. ;)

Find a 10-day guestpass and give it a try... I signed up monthly after the trial period (the first time I was ever convinced by a trial period of a game).

BTW, death knights are fun because they have a lot of toys like warlocks.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
ok I've never played this game. i've never looked at ingame footage. What is the appeal? Its a 3rd person right? And you mouse over enemies and "click" and based on the weapon you have readied and the defenses they have readied you do whatever damage? Is that about right?

It's not easy to explain what MMORPG's can be even to gamers.

For many players, they can be 'like other computer games'. You spend some time doing gaming type things and log off.

For some other players though, they can become a 'lifestyle', because of how much they offer, from the relationships that develop among a few to dozens of online friends who you spend many hours every day helping one another work on things together, to the seductive gameplay that becomes compulsive.

There's a reason why there are support groups like 'EQ Widows' and a therapy industry for online gaming addiction, and thousands of anecdotes of real lives affected.

The games are designed to be compulsive; as just one example, pshychological studies found nearly a century ago that the best way to induce compulsive behavior is with random rewards for the behavior (not consistent rewards, press the lever get a treat). It so happens that all MMO's I know of incorporate this random reward mechanism into the gameplay - it's even sophisticated enough for a tiered system. Kill a monster, there's a small chance (once in ten minutes? 30 minutes?) a valuable item will drop. Then there are 'really rare', once in months rarity drops. These rewards are combined with the predictable rewards of 'experience' and 'faction' to keep the player committed to killing thousands and thousands of creatures, each time with that little 'did I get something' excitement.

(Indeed, one of the other games I've seen that mechanic in is one of the most 'addictive' non-MMO's made, Diablo II, which similarly has online play and random 'drops' of a tiered set of items, expanded from things like armor to things like 'runes' which can have a one in millions chance to drop. People spent years compulsively re-clicking the same bried battles many thousands of times to try for rare things.)

The basic gameplay is about earning increased abilities for your characters, and accomplishing tasks from defeating a progressive series of raids, to mastering 'crafting'.

The more successful games (who are we kidding, WoW) seem to give you things to do to feel you are making progress even with small amounts of time to play.

So, it's easy to hae it get compulsive - log on and see if you can find someof that rare ingredient quickly, or if there's a bargain in the 'auction house'.

They've even added features to do this more like 'daily quests' with high enough rewards to tempt the player that the player can do once each day, use it or lose it - so log in daily.

Most recently, they've added something they call 'Achievments' and I call 'the OCD feature': rewards for hundreds of various things being done in the game.

45 types of food to make? You were happy making 4 of them. But learn the others, and you get an 'achievment' for it. Time to get out the pots and pans. This serves their interests too; instead of you 'getting bored' with the content and taking a break, you use more of the content they've paid to design that was otherwise not as compelling to you. But hey, you might even get a *title* if you do an especially difficult set of them.

I think one of the main differences between these games and others is that you 'play a char'. You are not 'controlling a paddle' or just 'shooting a weapon'; the characters express things, from being 'cute' to being 'strong' and other attributes, and they get players identifying more with the characters than even single player game 'characters', which are really more like a hybrid of games and movies; when you play Max Payne, you are following a set of shootings as the character says things writers wrote, like a movie.

In these games, when you spend an hour to help someone, that's something you are doing for which your character is affected. It's more immersive when there are real people.

I've heard it said by someone well connected to the game companies that these companies have hired psychologists to help make the games more 'addictive'.

However intentional, they've done that.

However, the players who play more casually don't understand that as much, and often deny the issue - and the players who are addicted and in denial about it really disagree.

After all, if they agreed, they might have to play less, so SCREW YOU.:)

The content in the larger games is huge, representing the millions spent, to the point where you cannot begin to do it all even if you play all day and night.

I guess I'd summarize some typical phases as being 'exploratory', then 'progressing', then trying to 'finish' some big things, and finally the ongoing social interaction for repetitive content at 'end game', one of two main ways to keep the players who have years spent playing, the other being making new chars.

Of course, some players find other ways, from message board discussions to creating guides, to enjoy the games.
 

videogames101

Diamond Member
Aug 24, 2005
6,783
27
91
Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
craig,

thanks for that. I think I'll pass :)

It's really not fun unless you're playing with lots of friends.

This, and that was a REALLY long response Craig, did you write that on the fly?
 

EricMartello

Senior member
Apr 17, 2003
910
0
0
Wall of text crits you for 150 damage. You die.

Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
ok I've never played this game. i've never looked at ingame footage. What is the appeal? Its a 3rd person right? And you mouse over enemies and "click" and based on the weapon you have readied and the defenses they have readied you do whatever damage? Is that about right?

It's not easy to explain what MMORPG's can be even to gamers.

For many players, they can be 'like other computer games'. You spend some time doing gaming type things and log off.

For some other players though, they can become a 'lifestyle', because of how much they offer, from the relationships that develop among a few to dozens of online friends who you spend many hours every day helping one another work on things together, to the seductive gameplay that becomes compulsive.

There's a reason why there are support groups like 'EQ Widows' and a therapy industry for online gaming addiction, and thousands of anecdotes of real lives affected.

The games are designed to be compulsive; as just one example, pshychological studies found nearly a century ago that the best way to induce compulsive behavior is with random rewards for the behavior (not consistent rewards, press the lever get a treat). It so happens that all MMO's I know of incorporate this random reward mechanism into the gameplay - it's even sophisticated enough for a tiered system. Kill a monster, there's a small chance (once in ten minutes? 30 minutes?) a valuable item will drop. Then there are 'really rare', once in months rarity drops. These rewards are combined with the predictable rewards of 'experience' and 'faction' to keep the player committed to killing thousands and thousands of creatures, each time with that little 'did I get something' excitement.

(Indeed, one of the other games I've seen that mechanic in is one of the most 'addictive' non-MMO's made, Diablo II, which similarly has online play and random 'drops' of a tiered set of items, expanded from things like armor to things like 'runes' which can have a one in millions chance to drop. People spent years compulsively re-clicking the same bried battles many thousands of times to try for rare things.)

The basic gameplay is about earning increased abilities for your characters, and accomplishing tasks from defeating a progressive series of raids, to mastering 'crafting'.

The more successful games (who are we kidding, WoW) seem to give you things to do to feel you are making progress even with small amounts of time to play.

So, it's easy to hae it get compulsive - log on and see if you can find someof that rare ingredient quickly, or if there's a bargain in the 'auction house'.

They've even added features to do this more like 'daily quests' with high enough rewards to tempt the player that the player can do once each day, use it or lose it - so log in daily.

Most recently, they've added something they call 'Achievments' and I call 'the OCD feature': rewards for hundreds of various things being done in the game.

45 types of food to make? You were happy making 4 of them. But learn the others, and you get an 'achievment' for it. Time to get out the pots and pans. This serves their interests too; instead of you 'getting bored' with the content and taking a break, you use more of the content they've paid to design that was otherwise not as compelling to you. But hey, you might even get a *title* if you do an especially difficult set of them.

I think one of the main differences between these games and others is that you 'play a char'. You are not 'controlling a paddle' or just 'shooting a weapon'; the characters express things, from being 'cute' to being 'strong' and other attributes, and they get players identifying more with the characters than even single player game 'characters', which are really more like a hybrid of games and movies; when you play Max Payne, you are following a set of shootings as the character says things writers wrote, like a movie.

In these games, when you spend an hour to help someone, that's something you are doing for which your character is affected. It's more immersive when there are real people.

I've heard it said by someone well connected to the game companies that these companies have hired psychologists to help make the games more 'addictive'.

However intentional, they've done that.

However, the players who play more casually don't understand that as much, and often deny the issue - and the players who are addicted and in denial about it really disagree.

After all, if they agreed, they might have to play less, so SCREW YOU.:)

The content in the larger games is huge, representing the millions spent, to the point where you cannot begin to do it all even if you play all day and night.

I guess I'd summarize some typical phases as being 'exploratory', then 'progressing', then trying to 'finish' some big things, and finally the ongoing social interaction for repetitive content at 'end game', one of two main ways to keep the players who have years spent playing, the other being making new chars.

Of course, some players find other ways, from message board discussions to creating guides, to enjoy the games.

 

chalmers

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2008
2,565
1
76
The last few responses are reminding me of the General forums of the Wow site.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Originally posted by: lupi
if only there was some thread to talk about wow stuff...

we should have 1 thread about WoW that runs for 20 bazillion pages where you spend weeks trying to find one particular post, which is then broken up by other people posting questions or other info about WoW?

yeah, that sounds like an AMAZING idea...:confused:


i don't play WoW any more but that sounds like a horrible idea
 

Scrimmy

Member
Oct 19, 2007
144
0
0
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
I always wondered why craig supported welfare now I know. Oh, this isn't P&N sorry.
Anyways, tl;dr.

Yeah, doesn't he know welfare's for incompetently-run corporations to use for massive executive bonuses? Stupid libs!

But back on topic: as others have said. DK's are actually pretty cool and extremely versatile, the big problem is that there are just a ton of horrible DK's who have no idea what they're doing.
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,800
45
91
Originally posted by: rh71
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
ok I've never played this game. i've never looked at ingame footage. What is the appeal? Its a 3rd person right? And you mouse over enemies and "click" and based on the weapon you have readied and the defenses they have readied you do whatever damage? Is that about right?

It's all in the details and numbers. It's not a mindless FPS. If you care about gear, you care about advancing skills, you care about teamwork... this is for you. If not, there's no shame in that either. ;)

Find a 10-day guestpass and give it a try... I signed up monthly after the trial period (the first time I was ever convinced by a trial period of a game).

BTW, death knights are fun because they have a lot of toys like warlocks.

FPS isn't mindless grinding. -_- That's all WoW is - grinding.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Originally posted by: pontifex
we should have 1 thread about WoW that runs for 20 bazillion pages where you spend weeks trying to find one particular post, which is then broken up by other people posting questions or other info about WoW?

yeah, that sounds like an AMAZING idea...:confused:


i don't play WoW any more but that sounds like a horrible idea

I think when we get the VB set up, there should be a WoW or MMO style subforum (not the idea of "subforums" that we have now.. but the hierarchical ones.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Originally posted by: Aikouka
Originally posted by: pontifex
we should have 1 thread about WoW that runs for 20 bazillion pages where you spend weeks trying to find one particular post, which is then broken up by other people posting questions or other info about WoW?

yeah, that sounds like an AMAZING idea...:confused:


i don't play WoW any more but that sounds like a horrible idea

I think when we get the VB set up, there should be a WoW or MMO style subforum (not the idea of "subforums" that we have now.. but the hierarchical ones.

NO

the wow thread is fine and honestly its not hard to find stuff in it and no one really cares if you ask something that was asked pages ago
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Originally posted by: Anubis
NO

the wow thread is fine and honestly its not hard to find stuff in it and no one really cares if you ask something that was asked pages ago

Having a huge thread for something as diverse as a MMO is simply obtuse.