Workplace ethics question

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Jumpem
I signed nda's, but I believe they were more aimed at sharing knowledge with competitors.

Read them over again. Thoroughly.

We were never given copies. First day they briefly went over them, we skimmed them and signed.

Ask for a copy of what you signed

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Jumpem
I signed nda's, but I believe they were more aimed at sharing knowledge with competitors.

Read them over again. Thoroughly.

We were never given copies. First day they briefly went over them, we skimmed them and signed.

Ask for a copy of what you signed

Exactly. You should never sign something and not keep a copy.

 

[badmouse]

Was this company a defense company, or involved in any kind of government-funded research, or anything like that? Then delete it.

You might print out a copy for your own use, but don't tell anybody - and don't tell us, either.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: BCYL
Delete it...

Anything you created when you were at the job belongs to the company, it is their IP... If they request that you delete it, you should delete it... Doesn't matter whether you designed/created it, it still belongs to the company...

It depends on what you sign. I've never had to sign something that gives the company I work for copyrights over anything I write, so everything I make is mine.

I don't think it matters if you sign anything. There are "general rules" to the effect that if you write something that's within the scope of your employment (work for hire), it belongs to them.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Ask for a copy of what you signed

It was my first day at a "real" office/programming job. I'm naturally quiet at first too.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: BCYL
Delete it...

Anything you created when you were at the job belongs to the company, it is their IP... If they request that you delete it, you should delete it... Doesn't matter whether you designed/created it, it still belongs to the company...

It depends on what you sign. I've never had to sign something that gives the company I work for copyrights over anything I write, so everything I make is mine.

I don't think it matters if you sign anything. There are "general rules" to the effect that if you write something that's within the scope of your employment (work for hire), it belongs to them.

Maybe, but any company I work for will have a hell of a time trying to prove they own something with my name on it.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Ask for a copy of what you signed

It was my first day at a "real" office/programming job. I'm naturally quiet at first too.

Now you know for the future. It's a simple thing that no one thinks about until they need to look over the documents.

 

[Hoober]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Jumpem
I signed nda's, but I believe they were more aimed at sharing knowledge with competitors.

Read them over again. Thoroughly.

We were never given copies. First day they briefly went over them, we skimmed them and signed.

Request a copy. And in the future ask for a copy.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Jumpem
I signed nda's, but I believe they were more aimed at sharing knowledge with competitors.

Read them over again. Thoroughly.

Exactly. I signed NDAs and there's a whole lotta stuff you can't do besides the obvious 'give other companies the libraries and design manuals'. In the EE business, you can't discuss practically anything with someone who has not signed the NDA. Any publication or presentation you do must be approved and cannot contain any numbers or design properties. You must normalize all your data if it's important to your design.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: BCYL
Delete it...

Anything you created when you were at the job belongs to the company, it is their IP... If they request that you delete it, you should delete it... Doesn't matter whether you designed/created it, it still belongs to the company...

It depends on what you sign. I've never had to sign something that gives the company I work for copyrights over anything I write, so everything I make is mine.

I don't think it matters if you sign anything. There are "general rules" to the effect that if you write something that's within the scope of your employment (work for hire), it belongs to them.

Maybe, but any company I work for will have a hell of a time trying to prove they own something with my name on it.

Are you an independant consultant? Do you work from home? Those are two major factors in your favor, if so. Just make sure you know for sure who owns the code if you think you might get in trouble, is my advice. As I said above I wouldn't delete it anyway, just wanted to note that he probably is legally obligated to.

 

[acemcmac]

tell him you deleted it, don't and ask for a bill

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: BCYL
Delete it...

Anything you created when you were at the job belongs to the company, it is their IP... If they request that you delete it, you should delete it... Doesn't matter whether you designed/created it, it still belongs to the company...

It depends on what you sign. I've never had to sign something that gives the company I work for copyrights over anything I write, so everything I make is mine.

I don't think it matters if you sign anything. There are "general rules" to the effect that if you write something that's within the scope of your employment (work for hire), it belongs to them.

Maybe, but any company I work for will have a hell of a time trying to prove they own something with my name on it.

Are you an independant consultant? Do you work from home? Those are two major factors in your favor, if so. Just make sure you know for sure who owns the code if you think you might get in trouble, is my advice. As I said above I wouldn't delete it anyway, just wanted to note that he probably is legally obligated to.

No and no. But I'm not a programmer either.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: BCYL
Delete it...

Anything you created when you were at the job belongs to the company, it is their IP... If they request that you delete it, you should delete it... Doesn't matter whether you designed/created it, it still belongs to the company...

It depends on what you sign. I've never had to sign something that gives the company I work for copyrights over anything I write, so everything I make is mine.

I don't think it matters if you sign anything. There are "general rules" to the effect that if you write something that's within the scope of your employment (work for hire), it belongs to them.

Maybe, but any company I work for will have a hell of a time trying to prove they own something with my name on it.

Are you an independant consultant? Do you work from home? Those are two major factors in your favor, if so. Just make sure you know for sure who owns the code if you think you might get in trouble, is my advice. As I said above I wouldn't delete it anyway, just wanted to note that he probably is legally obligated to.

No and no. But I'm not a programmer either.

What do you write?

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: torpid
Are you an independant consultant? Do you work from home? Those are two major factors in your favor, if so. Just make sure you know for sure who owns the code if you think you might get in trouble, is my advice. As I said above I wouldn't delete it anyway, just wanted to note that he probably is legally obligated to.

No I am a full-time student. I worked at one of their offices.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: torpid
Are you an independant consultant? Do you work from home? Those are two major factors in your favor, if so. Just make sure you know for sure who owns the code if you think you might get in trouble, is my advice. As I said above I wouldn't delete it anyway, just wanted to note that he probably is legally obligated to.

No I am a full-time student. I worked at one of their offices.

I was asking n0cmonkey, not you, sorry. I did actually read the OP which answered those questions about you.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Leejai

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Jumpem
The reason I ask is that my boss from there out of the blue asked me if I could help them with it. I answered his questions over email.

Then today he askew how I was able to help since I am back at school. I told him that I had a copy I used for reference. It is the largest and most complex tool I have ever made so I would like to still view it. He asked me to delete it.

Keep it. Tell him you deleted it. If if asks for your help again, tell him it is $150/hour + expenses.

i agree, since you were an intern (aka underpaid contractor), the final work is theirs to keep but all source code is still your intellectual property...don't delete anything, and rather than doing him a favor, charge the $150/hr.

It's absolutely not his intellectual property legally. Just morally.

It's not his morally either. They paid him for the work, they own it. There's no point to keeping it, you can never use it for anything.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: BCYL
Delete it...

Anything you created when you were at the job belongs to the company, it is their IP... If they request that you delete it, you should delete it... Doesn't matter whether you designed/created it, it still belongs to the company...

It depends on what you sign. I've never had to sign something that gives the company I work for copyrights over anything I write, so everything I make is mine.

I don't think it matters if you sign anything. There are "general rules" to the effect that if you write something that's within the scope of your employment (work for hire), it belongs to them.

Maybe, but any company I work for will have a hell of a time trying to prove they own something with my name on it.

Are you an independant consultant? Do you work from home? Those are two major factors in your favor, if so. Just make sure you know for sure who owns the code if you think you might get in trouble, is my advice. As I said above I wouldn't delete it anyway, just wanted to note that he probably is legally obligated to.

No and no. But I'm not a programmer either.

What do you write?

I've written plenty of documentation and various scripts.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: mugs
It's not his morally either. They paid him for the work, they own it. There's no point to keeping it, you can never use it for anything.

You can use it for reference later to save yourself the work of having to research how to do something properly again.

I say it's morally his in that a lot of his knowledge is contained in the code and not memorized because he assumed he could use it later, since it is so commonplace to do so. He was probably paid less than an entry level employee since part of his "payment" was in the knowledge he obtained.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: mugs

It's not his morally either. They paid him for the work, they own it. There's no point to keeping it, you can never use it for anything.

I can't use in whole, or even major parts, but I can use it as reference on how to do routine sorts of things.

 

[Armitage]

Some of those agreements are pretty hard core and try to claim rights to anything you write while you are employed with them - at home or at work. It can get pretty messy. There's some of my own work that I'd like to release open-source, but it'd be to messy to try and convince my company that it really is my code. Especially since I sometimes use it at work. And my company isn't very hung up on that stuff ... IP isn't their life blood the way it is for some.

The bottom line - if you are engaged in any sort of creative enterprise, make sure you understand the conditions of your employment WRT Intelectual Property.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: torpid
You can use it for reference later to save yourself the work of having to research how to do something properly again.

I say it's morally his in that a lot of his knowledge is contained in the code and not memorized because he assumed he could use it later, since it is so commonplace to do so. He was probably paid less than an entry level employee since part of his "payment" was in the knowledge he obtained.

That's exactly what I've been trying to say.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Armitage
Some of those agreements are pretty hard core and try to claim rights to anything you write while you are employed with them - at home or at work. It can get pretty messy. There's some of my own work that I'd like to release open-source, but it'd be to messy to try and convince my company that it really is my code. Especially since I sometimes use it at work. And my company isn't very hung up on that stuff ... IP isn't their life blood the way it is for some.

That's why I don't sign stuff like that.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Armitage
Some of those agreements are pretty hard core and try to claim rights to anything you write while you are employed with them - at home or at work. It can get pretty messy. There's some of my own work that I'd like to release open-source, but it'd be to messy to try and convince my company that it really is my code. Especially since I sometimes use it at work. And my company isn't very hung up on that stuff ... IP isn't their life blood the way it is for some.

That's why I don't sign stuff like that.

Shrug - depends what you want to do. At some places it's a condition of employment. Don't sign it - don't work for them. Everything is negotiable of course, but they'd have to want you pretty bad to sign away IP on work products.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Armitage
Some of those agreements are pretty hard core and try to claim rights to anything you write while you are employed with them - at home or at work. It can get pretty messy. There's some of my own work that I'd like to release open-source, but it'd be to messy to try and convince my company that it really is my code. Especially since I sometimes use it at work. And my company isn't very hung up on that stuff ... IP isn't their life blood the way it is for some.

That's why I don't sign stuff like that.

Shrug - depends what you want to do. At some places it's a condition of employment. Don't sign it - don't work for them. Everything is negotiable of course, but they'd have to want you pretty bad to sign away IP on work products.

I have no issues with giving a company something it paid for. But if I spend _my_ time and resources writing something, they have no right to it. If they don't like that, I can work somewhere else.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Armitage
Some of those agreements are pretty hard core and try to claim rights to anything you write while you are employed with them - at home or at work. It can get pretty messy. There's some of my own work that I'd like to release open-source, but it'd be to messy to try and convince my company that it really is my code. Especially since I sometimes use it at work. And my company isn't very hung up on that stuff ... IP isn't their life blood the way it is for some.

That's why I don't sign stuff like that.

Shrug - depends what you want to do. At some places it's a condition of employment. Don't sign it - don't work for them. Everything is negotiable of course, but they'd have to want you pretty bad to sign away IP on work products.

I have no issues with giving a company something it paid for. But if I spend _my_ time and resources writing something, they have no right to it. If they don't like that, I can work somewhere else.

Agree - that's why its important to read the fine print.