working mans guide "how to finance a high end gaming habit." :)

[whm1974]

I would think $450 is pretty steep for used parts. Is that a whole rig with psu, casing, hard disk and all?

Ken6's Basic Build in only a little more then what Larry wants for his gimped system, and it includes Windows as well.

 

[happy medium]

changed title to "working mans"

 

[nurturedhate]

changed title to "working mans"

How about "working person's" instead.

 

[Piroko]

Separate post, don't want it to get clogged up with the rest of that wall of text.

Would people in the thread not pay $30 a month to always have the fastest GPU out no matter what?

It's not that I couldn't, I just don't see the value in that. Those 30$ a month only get you a third of the deal. You still need the rest of the system (which, to not get bad value out of those first 30$, is another 20$ a month or so). And then you haven't bought any game to play yet. I have more hobbies than just PC gaming and something like 50$ less cash a month plus games is definitely noticeable.

The emphasis on my post really is the word value, since, when we're talking about high end gaming, you can almost always get close to the highest performance for half the money. Or, to write it in a more populist fashion, free games every other month. That's worth writing a guide over.

And to make my own retrospect guide: Buy a GTX670 or HD7950, skip the next generation, buy a GTX 970 or HD 390, skip the next generation, have enough money to buy a new system with Volta or Vega and a VR headset if you're into that.

 

[tential]

It's not that I couldn't, I just don't see the value in that. Those 30$ a month only get you a third of the deal. You still need the rest of the system (which, to not get bad value out of those first 30$, is another 20$ a month or so). And then you haven't bought any game to play yet. I have more hobbies than just PC gaming and something like 50$ less cash a month plus games is definitely noticeable.

The emphasis on my post really is the word value, since, when we're talking about high end gaming, you can almost always get close to the highest performance for half the money. Or, to write it in a more populist fashion, free games every other month. That's worth writing a guide over.

And to make my own retrospect guide: Buy a GTX670 or HD7950, skip the next generation, buy a GTX 970 or HD 390, skip the next generation, have enough money to buy a new system with Volta or Vega and a VR headset if you're into that.

But let's stay on topic yes you could buy cheaper gpus...
No one was ever saying you couldn't.

The point is, what's the best strategy for staying on a top performing gpu?

And yes, you have to have a system already. That's a prerequisite for this thread, are we debating the underlying premise? If you don't meet the prerequisite then obviously the rest of the text isn't for you.

You only need the base system build once for a long time.

As for games that's a hilarious topic. I'm sure most users spend more on games they've never played than they care to admit.

If you don't care about being on the high end, you take ops advice and scale it to your level of gpu.
Also, in your post, I think very few people consider the 7950, 290 and gtx 970 all to be on the same level. Just because the 970 was the second fastest chip out when it launched doesn't put it on the same tier....
7950 and 290 were second level chips.
We all knew the 970 was more cut down.

Edit : your post suggests you buy a 7950, skip the 290, then buy fury.... Ya... No thanks.

 

[nurturedhate]

But let's stay on topic yes you could buy cheaper gpus...
No one was ever saying you couldn't.

The point is, what's the best strategy for staying on a top performing gpu?

And yes, you have to have a system already. That's a prerequisite for this thread, are we debating the underlying premise? If you don't meet the prerequisite then obviously the rest of the text isn't for you.

It really doesn't look good to start a debate with a flawed prereq otherwise we might as well go "Only people with Titan XP are true gamers, this is the foundation, everyone else is a terrible person, nothing can change this" and proceed from there. Premise and purpose are what needs to be debated. If we start at 1+1=3 everything after that is flawed and worthless.

 

[tential]

It really doesn't look good to start a debate with a flawed prereq otherwise we might as well go "Only people with Titan XP are true gamers, this is the foundation, everyone else is a terrible person, nothing can change this" and proceed from there. Premise and purpose are what needs to be debated. If we start at 1+1=3 everything after that is flawed and worthless.

No it's not a plawed prereq. For people who are working who START with a PC it works. You're saying that a college student or HS kid can't save up for some years, buy a PC, then use this strategy? Or get gifted one by a relative? Or any combination of ways to start?
What is flawed is using some crazy false equivalency "Only people with Titan XP are true gamers, this is the foundation, everyone else is a terrible person, nothing can change this" and trying to equate it to this thread.

The only thing you got right though is that 1+1 is not 3.

 

[Piroko]

But let's stay on topic yes you could buy cheaper gpus...
No one was ever saying you couldn't.

The point is, what's the best strategy for staying on a top performing gpu?

And yes, you have to have a system already. That's a prerequisite for this thread, are we debating the underlying premise? If you don't meet the prerequisite then obviously the rest of the text isn't for you.

You only need the base system build once for a long time.

So cheaping out on the CPU is totally okay? Because:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/com...ge_vs_skylake_tested/?st=iw8fc1cg&sh=0ba27ee4
Yeah, Sandy Bridge has issues feeding a GTX 1080. The best strategy for enjoying your top performing GPU is to not pair it with a CPU from five years ago. I guess I am debating the underlying premise.

As for games that's a hilarious topic. I'm sure most users spend more on games they've never played than they care to admit.

Fallacy...

Also, in your post, I think very few people consider the 7950, 290 and gtx 970 all to be on the same level. Just because the 970 was the second fastest chip out when it launched doesn't put it on the same tier....
7950 and 290 were second level chips.
We all knew the 970 was more cut down.

Edit : your post suggests you buy a 7950, skip the 290, then buy fury.... Ya... No thanks.

I don't care if the second bin is 7% or 15% slower than the top bin when it's a lot cheaper. You're free to call them mid range as much as you like, it doesn't make them mid range though. That's a term that suits cards like the 7870, gtx660, gtx960 and hd380. Don't create an elitist bubble around cards that aren't even called Titan.

 

[tential]

No one told you to cheap out on your CPU?
You literally just pulled that out of thin air....

And a GTX 970 is midrange. It will always be mid range. Nothing ever will change that. I'm sorry if you think it's a high end GPU but it never was one. You're in the minority if you feel the GTX 970 is a high end GPU.

Even engadget still knows the x70 line is midrange.... seriously?
https://www.engadget.com/2016/07/09/nvidia-gtx-1070-review/

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, GTX970 and GTX1070 being "mid-range", is a fairly recent phenomenon, due to NV holding back, and pushing cards "up-tier".

It used to be that x50 and x60 were mid-range. (Remember the GTX550ti, GTX460? Those were decidedly mid-range.)

x70 and x80 used to be high-end. (GTX480/GTX580, anyone?)

And any of the lower-tier "GT" cards were low-end.

The GPU landscape was simpler back then.

 

[crisium]

I don't care if the second bin is 7% or 15% slower than the top bin when it's a lot cheaper. You're free to call them mid range as much as you like, it doesn't make them mid range though. That's a term that suits cards like the 7870, gtx660, gtx960 and hd380. Don't create an elitist bubble around cards that aren't even called Titan.

Agreed. It's utterly absurd see the 7950 and 970, at their debut the second fastest GPUs on the planet, being called mid range. And yes, I'm aware GM204 was the secondary chip. It still was the king for months.

So using that logic, the 7870 was low end and the 7850 was entry level? Is this the hill a user wants to die on? Buying the barely cut down chip for significantly less is the best way to get into high end gaming for those that care about a budget at all.

 

[tential]

Agreed. It's utterly absurd see the 7950 and 970, at their debut the second fastest GPUs on the planet, being called mid range. And yes, I'm aware GM204 was the secondary chip. It still was the king for months.

So using that logic, the 7870 was low end and the 7850 was entry level? Is this the hill a user wants to die on? Buying the barely cut down chip for significantly less is the best way to get into high end gaming for those that care about a budget at all.

This isn't even remotely debatable.
The GTX 970 is a midrange GPU.
Stop trying to use the HD7950 as an excuse. The HD7950 is a COMPLETELY different scenario than the GTX 970.
The GTX 970 is the cutdown secondary chip. The HD7950 is the HIGH END cutdown chip.

You're not getting into high end gaming getting a GTX 970. It's a midrange GPU. Surprise, MANY users can use a midrange GPU and be happy. This thread isn't about midrange GPUs, so the GTX 970 doesn't belong.

No one is debating that you can buy cheaper level GPUs to save money.
Just that the high end GPUs are an extra $100-200 USD. If you want to enjoy that level of GPU gaming power, it's NOT that much extra. If you don't want to, then save some money...

Your post, as well as many are really describing "The most cost effective GPUs to purchase."

That's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TOPIC.

 

[whm1974]

This isn't even remotely debatable.
The GTX 970 is a midrange GPU.
Stop trying to use the HD7950 as an excuse. The HD7950 is a COMPLETELY different scenario than the GTX 970.
The GTX 970 is the cutdown secondary chip. The HD7950 is the HIGH END cutdown chip.

You're not getting into high end gaming getting a GTX 970. It's a midrange GPU. Surprise, MANY users can use a midrange GPU and be happy. This thread isn't about midrange GPUs, so the GTX 970 doesn't belong.

No one is debating that you can buy cheaper level GPUs to save money.
Just that the high end GPUs are an extra $100-200 USD. If you want to enjoy that level of GPU gaming power, it's NOT that much extra. If you don't want to, then save some money...

Your post, as well as many are really describing "The most cost effective GPUs to purchase."

That's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TOPIC.

The GTX 970 isn't that much below the 980. It may be considered mid range now, but it was high end during it's release back in 2014.

 

[Piroko]

This isn't even remotely debatable.
The GTX 970 is a midrange GPU.
Stop trying to use the HD7950 as an excuse. The HD7950 is a COMPLETELY different scenario than the GTX 970.
The GTX 970 is the cutdown secondary chip. The HD7950 is the HIGH END cutdown chip.

You know, I get where you're coming from with the cutdown of a chip that isn't the largest of an architecture. But even then you're really stretching it.
GM200 is the enthusiast die that was late to the party, GM204 is the high end chip that started off as performance leader for a solid 8 months (discounting Titan X).
GM206 is the actual mid range chip that served the 200$ market, GM107 is the entry level gaming chip that was oddly placed and GM108 never really hit the desktop, but is the low end chip.

Both GM204 SKUs are a solid >30% faster than uncut GM206. Both GM204 SKUs are within 15% of each other. They are the same category.

No one is debating that you can buy cheaper level GPUs to save money.
Just that the high end GPUs are an extra $100-200 USD.

That's exactly what I mean with elitist bubble. High end defined by price and name only.

Your post, as well as many are really describing "The most cost effective GPUs to purchase."

...which is at least guide worthy but also rather obvious in how to achieve, I agree. However, my posts are targeting "how to finance a high end gaming habit without running into a surprise 600$ trap" that somehow eludes you.

 

[whm1974]

...which is at least guide worthy but also rather obvious in how to achieve, I agree. However, my posts are targeting "how to finance a high end gaming habit without running into a surprise 600$ trap" that somehow eludes you.

I can't see spending over ~$350 for a video card myself, much less $600 or more. And tential? a video card in the ~$300 range is high end.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

But let's stay on topic yes you could buy cheaper gpus...
No one was ever saying you couldn't.

The point is, what's the best strategy for staying on a top performing gpu?

If we are talking top shelf GPU's only and it must be brand new with warranty then it makes sense to wait for a while after release before purchasing. It also makes sense to avoid the ti tax. Buy one tier below flagship model. The prices on 1080's have come off their highs quite a bit. This pattern tends to repeat itself fairly often. As long as you are not beholden to any one manufacturer you can typically take 30% off the MSRP if you wait and watch for the sales. Since, in this scenario, you would probably already have a 980 I think you would be able to afford to wait without compromising your high standards and principles.

Basically, by NOT jumping on the cards at release you can push the savings rate down to $.60 a day and the replacement cycle up to approx. 18 mo. Example: Bargain NIB 980's were selling for around $350 in March this year. You bought one. You should still be pretty happy with it right? At least until the 1080ti comes out (January 2017??) The new release causes a product stack shift with prices getting bumped down. By the summer of 2017 1080's should be selling for around $400.- If you saved your $.60 per day you have around $300.-. Selling your 980 should get you at least $200.-. There is a bit of wiggle room in the budget as well as the time frame for the purchases. Perfect for the bargain shopper.

FWIW, this strategy works pretty well for any of the segments. If you really like new and shiny but don't have to be on the bleeding edge (1080p gamer willing to settle for high settings instead of max) you can save $.50 a day for a year and stay on top of the mid-range card cycles.

 

[Timmah!]

It has nothing to do with it. It's a matter of principle and financial circumstance of the firm selling the said goods. Do you see the prices of automobiles or houses increase in value at the same pace as the pricing of GPUs from 2010->2016?

Let's go along with your logic. In Russia, it might take someone 1-2 months to save up for a GTX1080. In Ukraine, it might take someone almost 2 years to save up for an iPhone 7 Plus.

Not going to argue about GPU prices and whether they are rising or not, just want to comment on that table. While Happy Medium´s OP is entertaing and well-minded and whatnot, its way too US-centric and completely oblivious to the realities of the other parts of the world. If you earn 500-700 EUROs per month, and say you have to support wife with a small child, while paying all the bills or mortgage, then NO, you cant save even 0,75 USD per day. If you can, you are saving for more pressing needs than new GPU. And those 500 - 700 EUROs is how much people around here where i live get paid on average, and i actually live to the west of Ukraine.

I read a topic on Nvidia Reddit, how people came to their 1080s/1070s etc... some student stated he earned for it working as cashier at Walmart earning 8 USD per hour. Thats about 1,5x more than i earn. And i have masters degree in architecture. Not that i complain about it. I could leave for Germany, England or US/Canada and with my education and experience probably earn way more - if i had the courage and will to do so. Just trying to put things into perspective - not everyone around the world is in the same position, so posting topics like this on international boards is bit...daft

 

[tential]

If we are talking top shelf GPU's only and it must be brand new with warranty then it makes sense to wait for a while after release before purchasing. It also makes sense to avoid the ti tax. Buy one tier below flagship model. The prices on 1080's have come off their highs quite a bit. This pattern tends to repeat itself fairly often. As long as you are not beholden to any one manufacturer you can typically take 30% off the MSRP if you wait and watch for the sales. Since, in this scenario, you would probably already have a 980 I think you would be able to afford to wait without compromising your high standards and principles.

Basically, by NOT jumping on the cards at release you can push the savings rate down to $.60 a day and the replacement cycle up to approx. 18 mo. Example: Bargain NIB 980's were selling for around $350 in March this year. You bought one. You should still be pretty happy with it right? At least until the 1080ti comes out (January 2017??) The new release causes a product stack shift with prices getting bumped down. By the summer of 2017 1080's should be selling for around $400.- If you saved your $.60 per day you have around $300.-. Selling your 980 should get you at least $200.-. There is a bit of wiggle room in the budget as well as the time frame for the purchases. Perfect for the bargain shopper.

FWIW, this strategy works pretty well for any of the segments. If you really like new and shiny but don't have to be on the bleeding edge (1080p gamer willing to settle for high settings instead of max) you can save $.50 a day for a year and stay on top of the mid-range card cycles.

So $.75 a day is COMPLETELY unreasonable, but $.60 or $.50 a day is fine? That's literally the price of 1 or 2 games.

How does that price difference of $.15 break the budget?

And again, if you're happy with lower end performance, then this strategy even works BETTER for you.

 

[crisium]

You know, I get where you're coming from with the cutdown of a chip that isn't the largest of an architecture. But even then you're really stretching it.
GM200 is the enthusiast die that was late to the party, GM204 is the high end chip that started off as performance leader for a solid 8 months (discounting Titan X).
GM206 is the actual mid range chip that served the 200$ market, GM107 is the entry level gaming chip that was oddly placed and GM108 never really hit the desktop, but is the low end chip.

Both GM204 SKUs are a solid >30% faster than uncut GM206. Both GM204 SKUs are within 15% of each other. They are the same category.

That's exactly what I mean with elitist bubble. High end defined by price and name only.

...which is at least guide worthy but also rather obvious in how to achieve, I agree. However, my posts are targeting "how to finance a high end gaming habit without running into a surprise 600$ trap" that somehow eludes you.

Well said. As RS has said in the past, the full chip has never outlived a barely cutdown chip. The 970 is cutdown a little more than a 7950 (which that one user did in fact call midrange despite at same clocks being 96% as fast) is still very close to 980, and it actually gets closer when both are at max OC (the 980 has a faster stock boost). In any context where the 980 was considered high end (pre 980 Ti) then so was the 88% as fast 970.

 

[tential]

It doesn't matter how fast the card is at release. So what? AMD is extremely behind at releasing cards. That allows Nvidia to release midrange GPUs that can be the fastest on the market.

Are you seriously suggesting that if Nvidia refreshes Pascal before AMD releases Vega, and releases the GTX 2060 and 2070, and the GTX 2060 is the 2nd fastest GPU, that it will be a high end GPU?

A midrange GPU can be the second fastest GPU on the market. That's just how LITTLE pressure Nvidia has from AMD.

 

[escrow4]

Who puts a couple of cents away a day? Ridiculous. The majority of people who want high end hardware slap it on plastic adding even more debt to their already overloaded indebted lives starting with a mortgage, followed by kids, followed by a car, followed by insurance, followed by a nagging wife who thinks you are a magic never emptying ATM. And then you need time for it and games actually worth buying.

I purchased a 1070 with a fistful of cash a few months back and there have been few single player games worth playing that actually justify the purchase . . . I'd get about as much enjoyment as a visit to the local whorehouse instead.

Now get off my lawn!

 

[thesmokingman]

How did this thread get to pages?

 

[RussianSensation]

So $.75 a day is COMPLETELY unreasonable, but $.60 or $.50 a day is fine? That's literally the price of 1 or 2 games.

How does that price difference of $.15 break the budget?

And again, if you're happy with lower end performance, then this strategy even works BETTER for you.

For the US/Canadian market, how many of us spend $$ daily on buying breakfast/lunch/dinner and at least 3-5 teas/coffees/bottle water/pop a week? If we are going to play this game, let's cut down on eating out at work, bring our own tea/coffee in a thermos, quit/cut down on drinking alcohol (how much is a glass of wine/martini/manhattan, etc. at a restaurant?!) , quit/cut down on smoking, use less A/C in the summer time, replace every single light bulb with LEDs, walk/bike to a store 30 min away or less instead of driving there, stop upgrading our smartphone every 12-24 months to the latest Samsung/LG/iPhone/HTC, etc. There are legitimate ways to save more $ than $0.75 a day.

Despite this, 70%+ of Steam users have a GPU with 3072MB of VRAM or less. That means 70% of all Steam users have a GTX780/280X/1060 3GB or slower. It's not because 70% of Steam users cannot afford a faster GPU -- many of them may think the value isn't there or they choose to spend their discretionary income elsewhere (i.e., the marginal utility of a $600-700 GPU every 2 years isn't as high for them compared to spending that $ on other things, or making their gf/bf, wife/husband, kids happy, etc.)

Look at PS4 Pro's The Last of Us 2 at 4K:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Wnvvj33Wo

Look at PS4 Pro's Lost Legacy at 4K:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PZjx5ao7alw

Did you see Horizon Zero Dawn and Days Gone on PS4?

When you see what's actually possible on a $400 console, and then you see what you get by buying a $1200-2400 Titan XP-XP SLI, don't you feel extremely disappointed by the current state of PC gaming?

Now imagine all those people who live outside of 1st world and make $1000 USD or less a month. If $700-1200 GPUs are already hardly popular among developed countries, you can bet they are almost non-existent in the developing countries.

What do you think someone is going to buy in China, Russia, India, Nigeria, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brazil, Argentina, etc., a $2000-3000 PC and a 6-10 core i7 and 1080/SLI/Titan XP or a used motorcycle?

As I said earlier in the thread, most of the world has to save up for at least 1 month to just purchase a single 1080. Would you be willing to spend your entire monthly salary on a pair of headphones or a videocard or a CPU?

My friend is very high up at Heinz-Kraft. He tells me close to 80-85% of all Americans buy this companies processed products. Why is it so many Americans do not even buy high quality or proper organic products, but here is a thread on how to buy $700 flagship GPUs? Talk about priorities...

United States has the 12th highest obesity rates in the world!

"The United States is the most obese country in North America with 35% of its population having a body max index of over 30.0 Nearly 78 million adults and 13 million children in the United States deal with the health and emotional effects of obesity every day. According to the CDC an average adult is 26 pounds heavier now than in the 1950’s."
http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/29-most-obese-countries-in-the-world.html

The irony of this thread is that many people who enjoy gaming should cut down on gaming, start spending $ on eating healthy, exercising/gym instead of spending even more on $700-1200 flagship GPUs every 2 years. The more invested a person becomes in a hobby, the more time they may be spending on that hobby. We don't actually want a society that is already very unhealthy to be engrossed even more in a sedantary life-style hobby. Now add TV/shows, music listening, sports watching and video games, cardiovascular disease and diabetes say hello!

All I am saying is that there could be other societal consequences if 150+ million Steam gamers suddenly started buying $600-700 flagship GPUs. It may actually be better for society if more people gamed less and exercised more and cooked at home instead of eating out to save time. (Just telling you the truth on how I perceive a lot of PC gamers in this hobby -- out of shape, don't eat right, don't exercise, etc.)

 

[tential]

RS. did you see anywhere in the thread title that suggests this is the optimal build to do?
The title does not read "This is the most optimal way to game".
Very FEW people are going to do this because very few people are going to want a high end GPU when it's not the most cost beneficial GPU to get. But for those who want one, it's a MARGINAL extra cost.

 

[VirtualLarry]

United States has the 12th highest obesity rates in the world!

The irony of this thread is that many people who enjoy gaming should cut down on gaming, start spending $ on eating healthy, exercising/gym instead of spending even more on $700-1200 flagship GPUs every 2 years. The more invested a person becomes in a hobby, the more time they may be spending on that hobby. We don't actually want a society that is already very unhealthy to be engrossed even more in a sedantary life-style hobby. Now add TV/shows, music listening, sports watching and video games, cardiovascular disease and diabetes say hello!

All I am saying is that there could be other societal consequences if 150+ million Steam gamers suddenly started buying $600-700 flagship GPUs. It may actually be better for society if more people gamed less and exercised more and cooked at home instead of eating out to save time. (Just telling you the truth on how I perceive a lot of PC gamers in this hobby -- out of shape, don't eat right, don't exercise, etc.)

This brings to mind the South Park World of Warcraft episode.