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Working laws in NY/NJ... help please? ie being forced to work 50 hrs with no OT... etc

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Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Google the lunch thing. That might be illegal since your friend is full time, but I don't know for sure. Nothing else you have described is illegal in any way.


I recommend telling your friend to find another job and then quit the one he has. Accounting positions are a dime a dozen and it shouldn't be too hard to find a job that requires less hours and no weekends.

Oh and don't listen to anyone that says that 50 hours a week plus weekends is not a lot of hours. It is a lot of hours. Many would disagree because of type of industry they work in, but most of those people don't know much about other industries anyways. America has unfortunately become a nation of workaholics created by greed. It wasn't a very long time ago that 40 hours a week or less was considered normal. The bottom line is your friend needs to do what makes him happy despite any kind of norm.

Another tip. If he finds it hard to get a job where the hours suit him right, then try looking into government jobs. The lack of greed and commercial deadlines makes for a very laid back environment with less hours.
Click to expand...


I don't think it's unfortunate at all. It's one of the main reasons why we are a superpower. Would you rather have France's work ethic and laws...oh, and their high taxes and unemployment?
Click to expand...

Actually our superpower status has more to do with our exploitation of an incredible amount of relatively untapped natural resources over our history (compared to Europe anyway).

Seems like the workaholic types end up with crappy family lives more often than most. I'll take a stable family with kids who know who I am and plenty of time off versus a 70h/wk job, a divorce, and a heart attack by 50.

Whatever makes you happy though! 😀
 
H1B will be even worse. From the time he gets his H1B until he can get a Green Card, has to be sponsered by a company and if he no longer work for the company he will be sent back to his home country. That means the company can work him for as many hours and pay him as little money as they want and he won't complain, or he'll be terminated and sent back.



It is basically out country's version of a legal sweat shop.

This is why a lot of american corporations (especially IT based) go out of thier way to hire H1B people from India and other countries. They COMPLETLY avoid American workers regardless of their level of skill and experience simply because they can get H1B workers for a fraction of the cost.

When the H1B worker does get his green card, he usually quits or is let go and the next H1B takes his old job.


If you ever get a chance, talk to a former H1B applicant and he'll probably describe an expereince very similar to what you'd expect in a sweatshop.

Do all companies operate like this? No. Some actually do use the H1B to fill positions that cannot be filled by local applicants do to expertise, knowledge of a language, or some other qualification. The problem is that a significant number of companies (Big and small) abuse the program as a cheap source of indentured servents.
 
Originally posted by: CPA
I don't think it's unfortunate at all. It's one of the main reasons why we are a superpower. Would you rather have France's work ethic and laws...oh, and their high taxes and unemployment?
Click to expand...

The difference between now and the past is that people used to have more of a choice. The country has changed and many industries which used to require little to no overtime are now saturated by it. I don't mind that industries like that exist. I just wish there were more options for people who choose not to be so career driven. Today, there are very few options out there which allow you to own a home and support a family at the same time without having a job which requires lots of overtime. That's ok for some people, but different people value different things in life and that will never change. Not everyone is happy being a workaholic. Granted, I don't believe that the people who work less should make the same kind of money as those who work very hard, but I would like to see this country change so that those people have it easier when it comes to at least supporting a family and owning home.

I don't know...I guess I just remember the days where working tons of hours meant increasing your chances greatly to make the big bucks. Today it seems like that is the norm if all you are looking for is an average salary. Superpower or not, I don't see how this is making people's daily lives that much better compared to the past.
 
Originally posted by: Mizugori
Ok I have a few questions.

A friend of mine is a foreigner, and just graduated from an American school through an exchange program. They got a job in an accounting position in NJ, although they live in NY.

*this is not an illegal job! they have working permission for 10 months until they can secure an H1B visa! so this is totally on the books and they have a social security number!*

For starters, they are being forced to work 7:00-4:30, cannot take an hour for lunch, and are not being paid overtime for the couple of extra hours that that works out to every week. Also, they were just told today that they have to work two Saturdays every month, NOT instead of a weekday but in addition to the other 5 days!! This does not impact their pay and they do not receive any overtime or anything like that. The company told them since they are salary and not hourly, they can basically expect whatever they want.

Is this true? I thought it was illegal for a company to expect an employee to work over 40 hours a week without choice, and to not pay them overtime for past 40 hours??

Can anyone lend me some advice here? How would they go about reporting these abuses if the company won't listen, assuming they are in fact breaking the law?

thanks!
Click to expand...


Salaried employees don't have set hours but they definitely are entitled to lunch. Also, if they are in a managorial position then overtime doesn't apply otherwise even salaried employees can be compensated for overtime. That's how it works with my company anyway.
 
Originally posted by: Ricoche
Originally posted by: Mizugori
Ok I have a few questions.

A friend of mine is a foreigner, and just graduated from an American school through an exchange program. They got a job in an accounting position in NJ, although they live in NY.

*this is not an illegal job! they have working permission for 10 months until they can secure an H1B visa! so this is totally on the books and they have a social security number!*

For starters, they are being forced to work 7:00-4:30, cannot take an hour for lunch, and are not being paid overtime for the couple of extra hours that that works out to every week. Also, they were just told today that they have to work two Saturdays every month, NOT instead of a weekday but in addition to the other 5 days!! This does not impact their pay and they do not receive any overtime or anything like that. The company told them since they are salary and not hourly, they can basically expect whatever they want.

Is this true? I thought it was illegal for a company to expect an employee to work over 40 hours a week without choice, and to not pay them overtime for past 40 hours??

Can anyone lend me some advice here? How would they go about reporting these abuses if the company won't listen, assuming they are in fact breaking the law?

thanks!
Click to expand...


Salaried employees don't have set hours but they definitely are entitled to lunch. Also, if they are in a managorial position then overtime doesn't apply otherwise even salaried employees can be compensated for overtime. That's how it works with my company anyway.
Click to expand...

the lunch thing has been debuked above. Most salaried don't have OT, but my friend who works for a commercial real estate company DOES get paid OT, and he is on salary (that bastard! he also works 70-80hrs a week though)
 
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Today, there are very few options out there which allow you to own a home and support a family at the same time without having a job which requires lots of overtime. That's ok for some people, but different people value different things in life and that will never change. Not everyone is happy being a workaholic. Granted, I don't believe that the people who work less should make the same kind of money as those who work very hard, but I would like to see this country change so that those people have it easier when it comes to at least supporting a family and owning home.
Click to expand...

One big factor which is often overlooked is that it now takes a herculean effort and a boatload of money to start and run a small business any more. Used to be that someone could start a business and, while it required a lot of time initially, with success would come the opportunity to ease back on the hours as the employees took over much of the day-to-day operations.

But today there are so many business taxes, regulations and red tape that you have no choice but to pay an army of other people (lawyers, accountants, consultants, etc., etc.) just to make sure you're following the rules. For a lot of people, that plus the taxes consumes so much money it makes the whole idea unfeasible.
 
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: NeuroSynapsis

the lunch thing has been debuked above.
Click to expand...

Maybe that varies by state.
Click to expand...

it does, but the Dept of Labor websites are very easy to google, find one that has lunch required by law. there could be a few, but this has come up before and everyone i search when this question is asked i find the rights of the employee by law do not match up with the general publics perception of the rights of workers

except for child labor, safety issues, wages and civil rights, workers have very few "rights by law" like lunch or vacation and all that fancy stuff that many companies offer, but are not required to by law

have a nice day! :sun:
 
Originally posted by: venkman
H1B will be even worse. From the time he gets his H1B until he can get a Green Card, has to be sponsered by a company and if he no longer work for the company he will be sent back to his home country. That means the company can work him for as many hours and pay him as little money as they want and he won't complain, or he'll be terminated and sent back.



It is basically out country's version of a legal sweat shop.

This is why a lot of american corporations (especially IT based) go out of thier way to hire H1B people from India and other countries. They COMPLETLY avoid American workers regardless of their level of skill and experience simply because they can get H1B workers for a fraction of the cost.

When the H1B worker does get his green card, he usually quits or is let go and the next H1B takes his old job.


If you ever get a chance, talk to a former H1B applicant and he'll probably describe an expereince very similar to what you'd expect in a sweatshop.

Do all companies operate like this? No. Some actually do use the H1B to fill positions that cannot be filled by local applicants do to expertise, knowledge of a language, or some other qualification. The problem is that a significant number of companies (Big and small) abuse the program as a cheap source of indentured servents.
Click to expand...

Legal swatshop my ass, you can quit anytime you want...
 
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Google the lunch thing. That might be illegal since your friend is full time, but I don't know for sure. Nothing else you have described is illegal in any way.


I recommend telling your friend to find another job and then quit the one he has. Accounting positions are a dime a dozen and it shouldn't be too hard to find a job that requires less hours and no weekends.

Oh and don't listen to anyone that says that 50 hours a week plus weekends is not a lot of hours. It is a lot of hours. Many would disagree because of type of industry they work in, but most of those people don't know much about other industries anyways. America has unfortunately become a nation of workaholics created by greed. It wasn't a very long time ago that 40 hours a week or less was considered normal. The bottom line is your friend needs to do what makes him happy despite any kind of norm.

Another tip. If he finds it hard to get a job where the hours suit him right, then try looking into government jobs. The lack of greed and commercial deadlines makes for a very laid back environment with less hours.
Click to expand...


I don't think it's unfortunate at all. It's one of the main reasons why we are a superpower. Would you rather have France's work ethic and laws...oh, and their high taxes and unemployment?
Click to expand...

I'd rather have a Nordic country's - high income, high growth, highest standard of life, meritocratic yet equitable society, long vacations, happy and educated populace. Sorry bud, they've got everyone else beat pretty thouroughly right now.
 
Originally posted by: Martin
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Google the lunch thing. That might be illegal since your friend is full time, but I don't know for sure. Nothing else you have described is illegal in any way.


I recommend telling your friend to find another job and then quit the one he has. Accounting positions are a dime a dozen and it shouldn't be too hard to find a job that requires less hours and no weekends.

Oh and don't listen to anyone that says that 50 hours a week plus weekends is not a lot of hours. It is a lot of hours. Many would disagree because of type of industry they work in, but most of those people don't know much about other industries anyways. America has unfortunately become a nation of workaholics created by greed. It wasn't a very long time ago that 40 hours a week or less was considered normal. The bottom line is your friend needs to do what makes him happy despite any kind of norm.

Another tip. If he finds it hard to get a job where the hours suit him right, then try looking into government jobs. The lack of greed and commercial deadlines makes for a very laid back environment with less hours.
Click to expand...


I don't think it's unfortunate at all. It's one of the main reasons why we are a superpower. Would you rather have France's work ethic and laws...oh, and their high taxes and unemployment?
Click to expand...

I'd rather have a Nordic country's - high income, high growth, highest standard of life, meritocratic yet equitable society, long vacations, happy and educated populace. Sorry bud, they've got everyone else beat pretty thouroughly right now.
Click to expand...


Heh oviously not, because otherwise you'd be living there already😉
 
Originally posted by: halik
I work 60+ hrs on a regular basis... if you're salaried, that's how it goes.
Click to expand...

This is not true. I am living proof along with the thousands that work with me. Believe it or not, I am a programmer making a programmer's salary and work less than 40 hours every week with top of the line benefits. It's out there! You just need to be patient and look 😉
 
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: halik
I work 60+ hrs on a regular basis... if you're salaried, that's how it goes.
Click to expand...

This is not true. I am living proof along with the thousands that work with me. Believe it or not, I am a programmer making a programmer's salary and work less than 40 hours every week with top of the line benefits. It's out there! You just need to be patient and look 😉
Click to expand...

he did not say that everyone on salery works 60hrs. but most do.

i wish they would have a class that would tell college kids what/how salery work is. we have this thread every few months.
 
Originally posted by: waggy
he did not say that everyone on salery works 60hrs. but most do.
Click to expand...

You're right. I can't argue with that and I didn't mean to come off so strong. I guess I am just trying to encourage that people shouldn't give up hope if you are unhappy with the norm in today's corporate world. A lot of people just give in because it can be challenging to find a job that makes you happy and they are often told to just deal with it. It's sad 🙁

I definitely agree with teaching college students about this though. It would also be nice if they required a class about how to wisely manage your finances along with the ins and outs about credit.

 
Funny... I thought that 15 to 20% mandatory overtime was required for most US workers on salary nowadays.

If you don't like it, move to France and enjoy their 35 hour workweeks and mandatory 6 weeks of vacation!
 
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: Martin
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Google the lunch thing. That might be illegal since your friend is full time, but I don't know for sure. Nothing else you have described is illegal in any way.


I recommend telling your friend to find another job and then quit the one he has. Accounting positions are a dime a dozen and it shouldn't be too hard to find a job that requires less hours and no weekends.

Oh and don't listen to anyone that says that 50 hours a week plus weekends is not a lot of hours. It is a lot of hours. Many would disagree because of type of industry they work in, but most of those people don't know much about other industries anyways. America has unfortunately become a nation of workaholics created by greed. It wasn't a very long time ago that 40 hours a week or less was considered normal. The bottom line is your friend needs to do what makes him happy despite any kind of norm.

Another tip. If he finds it hard to get a job where the hours suit him right, then try looking into government jobs. The lack of greed and commercial deadlines makes for a very laid back environment with less hours.
Click to expand...


I don't think it's unfortunate at all. It's one of the main reasons why we are a superpower. Would you rather have France's work ethic and laws...oh, and their high taxes and unemployment?
Click to expand...

I'd rather have a Nordic country's - high income, high growth, highest standard of life, meritocratic yet equitable society, long vacations, happy and educated populace. Sorry bud, they've got everyone else beat pretty thouroughly right now.
Click to expand...


Heh oviously not, because otherwise you'd be living there already😉
Click to expand...

If I could magically transplant my family and friends, I would. My family immigrated and it was nasty enough for the first few years, going through that again (and alone) would suck big time.
 
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: halik
I work 60+ hrs on a regular basis... if you're salaried, that's how it goes.
Click to expand...

This is not true. I am living proof along with the thousands that work with me. Believe it or not, I am a programmer making a programmer's salary and work less than 40 hours every week with top of the line benefits. It's out there! You just need to be patient and look 😉
Click to expand...

Well of course you can find a 40hr/week position, but it will pay accordingly. I get compensated well for working long hours...

What I'm saying is if you're salaried, you won't get paid overtime for 40+ hours. Other than that it's just a matter of your preference. I'm young and like the 6 figs, but thats just me. There are many people that value their time off more than I.
 
Getting paid right for it is great if that is what you want to do. 6 figs is nothing to laugh at for sure. My guess is that you are probably an engineer, programmer, lawyer, or have some other profession which you worked hard to do well in and that's great! You say you don't value your time off quite as much as the average person and that is perfectly fine. You had a choice and you made it.

There are far too many jobs out there which require those same kinds of hours and pay half of what you probably make though. That is the problem. What used to be the middle ground gray area where you worked 40 hrs a week for an average salary barely exists anymore. People get paid the same salaries, but they are working 50-60+ hours. The people that value their time off more than the money, but still want to raise a good family and put a good roof over their heads are struggling a lot more to make that happen these days. They barely have a choice even though many of them are well educated and work hard 🙁

I think this country would be a better place if there was more opportunity for people like that.
 
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: waggy
he did not say that everyone on salery works 60hrs. but most do.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree with teaching college students about this though. It would also be nice if they required a class about how to wisely manage your finances along with the ins and outs about credit.
Click to expand...

I would've liked a class like that in high school.
 
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: CPA
I don't think it's unfortunate at all. It's one of the main reasons why we are a superpower. Would you rather have France's work ethic and laws...oh, and their high taxes and unemployment?
Click to expand...

The difference between now and the past is that people used to have more of a choice. The country has changed and many industries which used to require little to no overtime are now saturated by it. I don't mind that industries like that exist. I just wish there were more options for people who choose not to be so career driven. Today, there are very few options out there which allow you to own a home and support a family at the same time without having a job which requires lots of overtime. That's ok for some people, but different people value different things in life and that will never change. Not everyone is happy being a workaholic. Granted, I don't believe that the people who work less should make the same kind of money as those who work very hard, but I would like to see this country change so that those people have it easier when it comes to at least supporting a family and owning home.

I don't know...I guess I just remember the days where working tons of hours meant increasing your chances greatly to make the big bucks. Today it seems like that is the norm if all you are looking for is an average salary. Superpower or not, I don't see how this is making people's daily lives that much better compared to the past.
Click to expand...

Our way of life is much, much easier than it was years ago. I will admit it takes to earners to make a living nowadays, but that's more a factor of our insane tax policies and cost of living. Neither though force you to work overtime to make it. We have more millionaires, inflation adjusted, then ever, our middle class is larger and the fastest growing segment of our population and basic needs are met for the vast majority of Americans. We don't need it easier, we need to quit bitchin about what we don't have and consider all of the things we do.

As far as options, please, if you have no options, maybe it's your career field or your industry or even your company. But, noone holds a gun to your head and keeps you where you are at. That mere fact alone implies you have options. Now, the question is are you willing to take some risk and pursue those options.
 
Originally posted by: Martin
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Google the lunch thing. That might be illegal since your friend is full time, but I don't know for sure. Nothing else you have described is illegal in any way.


I recommend telling your friend to find another job and then quit the one he has. Accounting positions are a dime a dozen and it shouldn't be too hard to find a job that requires less hours and no weekends.

Oh and don't listen to anyone that says that 50 hours a week plus weekends is not a lot of hours. It is a lot of hours. Many would disagree because of type of industry they work in, but most of those people don't know much about other industries anyways. America has unfortunately become a nation of workaholics created by greed. It wasn't a very long time ago that 40 hours a week or less was considered normal. The bottom line is your friend needs to do what makes him happy despite any kind of norm.

Another tip. If he finds it hard to get a job where the hours suit him right, then try looking into government jobs. The lack of greed and commercial deadlines makes for a very laid back environment with less hours.
Click to expand...


I don't think it's unfortunate at all. It's one of the main reasons why we are a superpower. Would you rather have France's work ethic and laws...oh, and their high taxes and unemployment?
Click to expand...

I'd rather have a Nordic country's - high income, high growth, highest standard of life, meritocratic yet equitable society, long vacations, happy and educated populace. Sorry bud, they've got everyone else beat pretty thouroughly right now.
Click to expand...


Links showing support of your argument please.
 
Originally posted by: Tremulant
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: waggy
he did not say that everyone on salery works 60hrs. but most do.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree with teaching college students about this though. It would also be nice if they required a class about how to wisely manage your finances along with the ins and outs about credit.
Click to expand...

I would've liked a class like that in high school.
Click to expand...

I beleive the local community college makes them take one. Also i heard the highschool has one for you can take.

i think it should be manditory. i see a lot of young kids screwing up there credit for life.
 
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