Working for a big four company...

[Gibson486]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Gibson486

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: Gibson486

Originally posted by: Xcobra
Thanks guys! Appreciate the input. I have been told that KPMG is probably not a good choice and just wanted to get others' opinions. I did get an interview with them and were very impressed with my background. But turns out that they had no room for tax people. Now that I look back, I could've gone for the audit internship. Although the class I took last semester, I hated it. But I will still have to do it to get my hours for the CPA.

As for the 150 unit requirement, I am doing so. That's the reason I am taking 5 years to graduate. So what I did is double-concentration: accounting and financial management. Worked perfectly. So I am certain to get the 150 units. I am doing pretty well (could do better). Mainly As and Bs (aside from an F i got freshman year and a few Cs in my sophmore year) so I think I'm doing pretty decent.

How about studying for the CPA? I know once I pass it, many doors will open.

hahaha....my gf took the auditing class and she loved it....but she said the class was hard as hell.

The thing about a CPA is that lots of people do not want to do it. The responsibility you have is huge and in some cases companies will hold you completely liable for mistakes. I have no idea because I am an engineer, but my gf is an accountant and wa sgonna get her cpa. Her last internship was working with 4 CPAs doing CPA work. She did not enjoy it at all.

If you want a career in accounting, you must get your CPA. Otherwise, you're just a glorified bookkeeper. Before I started in public accounting, I interned in the private sector, in the tax dept. Although I enjoyed it and it wasn't public tax, I feel that there is more experience to be gained in audit. Audit will teach how how a company is run, from the bottom to the top.

She knows that, but she is not even sure if she wants to pursue accounting anymore. Personally, I do not blame her. She is outgoing and uplifting type and I really do not think accounting fits her well. She is the type of person who needs a job where you do not sit in an office all day crunching numbers (that's me, but my job does not require that). I want her to atleast try audting though, but she is kind of scared of it.



she actually talked to me about iy yesterday too. She has no idea what she can do with an accounting degree besides accounting. I just told her that the sky is the limit and she needs to really buck down and force her way into a field that she may like.

oh and corporate accounting is day and night to audit. you will literally know nothing going from audit to corporate accounting. I wouldn't stay longer than 2-4 years in public if you're planning on ending up in corporate accounting.

how will he know nothing from going from audit to corporate accounting? Audit lets him/her look and learn a company's operations from a birds-eye view. Corporate accounting is an application of what you've learned in school and what you've observed in the field in public accounting.

An auditor does not know how to enter Journal Entries, does not truly understand reversing entries, and does not fully understand the general ledger.

Cmon, ticking and tying and footing does not prepare you for corporate accounting. The advantage of having public background is you know what the auditors want when audit time rolls around.

if you start your career as an auditor, then, from what I understand, this is true. However, lots of aufitors came from the corporate side as well.

It's like a consultant. You can start off as a "bitch work" consultant at a firm, or you could start off elsewhere and actually come into a firm as a real consultant who actually has experienced the ins and outs of it all.

 

[krunchykrome]

JS80, What are you talking about? journal entries? reversing entries? GL's? those are the fundamentals of accounting; If you don't understand those concepts by your Intermediate Accounting courses, accounting is not the career for you. Every company's GL looks different, but once you've seen a few, you've seen them all

The only thing an auditor would have trouble adapting to in corporate accounting is the actual accounting system they use

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome
JS80, What are you talking about? journal entries? reversing entries? GL's? those are the fundamentals of accounting; If you don't understand those concepts by your Intermediate Accounting courses, accounting is not the career for you. Every company's GL looks different, but once you've seen a few, you've seen them all

The only thing an auditor would have trouble adapting to in corporate accounting is the actual accounting system they use

I have never met a staff auditor that i didn't have to explain how journal entries work. Taking a few courses in college then going into public accounting and ticking and tying does not prepare you to even come close to closing the books nor creating financial statements.

 

[krunchykrome]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: krunchykrome
JS80, What are you talking about? journal entries? reversing entries? GL's? those are the fundamentals of accounting; If you don't understand those concepts by your Intermediate Accounting courses, accounting is not the career for you. Every company's GL looks different, but once you've seen a few, you've seen them all

The only thing an auditor would have trouble adapting to in corporate accounting is the actual accounting system they use

I have never met a staff auditor that i didn't have to explain how journal entries work. Taking a few courses in college then going into public accounting and ticking and tying does not prepare you to even come close to closing the books nor creating financial statements.

I don't know what to tell you. Either you have no idea what you're talking about, or you're playing stupid and being stubborn because you're in the private sector.

There's a reason people leave public to work in private, and there's a reason why company's prefer professionals with a background in public accounting.

 

[Michael]

I have never met a staff auditor that i didn't have to explain how journal entries work. Taking a few courses in college then going into public accounting and ticking and tying does not prepare you to even come close to closing the books nor creating financial statements.

That is probably true. A staff auditor is a recent graduate who has not worked before. There probably is a good chance that they never worked in accounting before starting at an audit firm (I had, but other than a summer job my first "accounting" job was Controller of a $1B SBU after years of external and internal auditing).

I don't know why you're being all high and mighty about it, though. Any new staff fresh out of school will probably not know how to do journal entries and close the books. They'll know the theory from classes, but not the practice.

Just like Bill Gates never finished college and still made it really big, there are plenty of successful accountants and finance professionals that never did a CPA. Even ones with a CPA may not have worked for a Big 4. However, a quick look through job postings show how many ask for Big 4 experience. I can tell you, even at the very highest level of jobs (job specs sent from the major head hunting firms for CFO positions) still ask for Big 4 experience and CPA.

Michael

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: krunchykrome
JS80, What are you talking about? journal entries? reversing entries? GL's? those are the fundamentals of accounting; If you don't understand those concepts by your Intermediate Accounting courses, accounting is not the career for you. Every company's GL looks different, but once you've seen a few, you've seen them all

The only thing an auditor would have trouble adapting to in corporate accounting is the actual accounting system they use

I have never met a staff auditor that i didn't have to explain how journal entries work. Taking a few courses in college then going into public accounting and ticking and tying does not prepare you to even come close to closing the books nor creating financial statements.

I don't know what to tell you. Either you have no idea what you're talking about, or you're playing stupid and being stubborn because you're in the private sector.

There's a reason people leave public to work in private, and there's a reason why company's prefer professionals with a background in public accounting.

I've done both so I speak from experience.

But yes, if i were hiring I would prefer someone with public experience just because I know someone without it is probably an idiot. But my point was that people coming out of public know nothing and they often find themselves looking like fools once they start their job in private.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: amish
krunchy is right about KPMG. they have laughable technology compared to the other big 4 firms.

What kind of technology are you referring to?

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: kstu

Originally posted by: Xcobra
I was thinking about going for KPMG.

McDonald's > KPMG

fixed

I'm guessing you're a financial statement auditor and you're with Deloitte or PwC?

 

[chusteczka]

In my opinion:

• You are very lucky to be offered this internship with PwC international tax.
• tax > audit
• mergers & acquisitions > international tax > state tax
• PwC > Deloitte > KPMG > E&Y
  (I do not like E&Y and consider them to be the bottom.)

Work hard and enjoy your summer!

 

[Gibson486]

Originally posted by: chusteczka
In my opinion:

• You are very lucky to be offered this internship with PwC international tax.
• tax > audit
• mergers & acquisitions > international tax > state tax
• PwC > Deloitte > KPMG > E&Y
  (I do not like E&Y and consider them to be the bottom.)

Work hard and enjoy your summer!

anyone who comes out and says one firm is better than anotehr has no idea what they are talking about.

 

[Orsorum]

Chusteczka, I'm guessing you work in the M&A practice at PwC?

 

[chusteczka]

Originally posted by: Gibson486

Originally posted by: chusteczka
In my opinion:

• You are very lucky to be offered this internship with PwC international tax.
• tax > audit
• mergers & acquisitions > international tax > state tax
• PwC > Deloitte > KPMG > E&Y
  (I do not like E&Y and consider them to be the bottom.)

Work hard and enjoy your summer!

anyone who comes out and says one firm is better than anotehr has no idea what they are talking about.

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Chusteczka, I'm guessing you work in the M&A practice at PwC?

Me? I just stated my opinions. I do not want to have to support them!

I have an engineering degree in computer science, so Gibson is correct in that I do not know what I am talking about. My ex-wife, with a CPA, is the one working with PwC. She recently moved up (in her opinion) from state tax to international tax. She finds the people in M&A and international tax to be the smartest and most qualified people she has ever worked with. These are the groups that hire her best professors from school as consultants and course instructors. She also finds the learning opportunities to be the best in these two areas. Her interest and focus is in tax and she graduated with top scores from the top ranked accounting curriculum at the University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign.

As far as my opinion on the different firms, this is my first hand opinion based on how I was treated while my wife interviewed with each of these companies. I accompanied her to each of her interviews for transportation, guidance, and friendly confidence purposes.

PwC treated me like a guest in their home, offering me full use of their lunch room to eat, drink, sit, and study while waiting for my wife's interview to end. I was in school at the time, so the opportunity to sit in a quiet area and study was appreciated. They really made sure that I was comfortable and they were very polite to me. This was the only enjoyable experience for me during her numerous interviews. Interestingly, her interview experience went similar to my waiting experience for each of these companies.

Deloitte was polite and allowed me to sit in their flashy waiting area by the front desk. No offers for refreshments or inquiries into my comfort.

Ernst & Young displayed irritation at my presence and impolitely told me to "wait around the corner", referring to an uncomfortable, little chair in a busy passageway. There were no offers of refreshments or inquiries into my comfort.

I know nothing about KPMG since they were not even smart enough to offer my wife an interview.

Just like it is said that you can tell a person's true character by watching how they treat someone seen "beneath them", such as a waiter/waitress during a lunch interview; I was able to tell much about these companies by how they treated an inconsequential "tag-along". The rest of my opinions are based on my wife's three or four years worth of summer internships with PwC followed by two years of living with a spouse working for PwC, followed by two more years of continuing to hear updates on the work environment; all as her and my relationship declined. However, that is another story.

 

[Xcobra]

Just a little update.

 

[Svnla]

OP, 53K in SF is kinda low don't you think? Plus like others said already, you are expected to work 60 hrs or more per week.

But if you need experience, then stay with it for a few years, probably get them pay for CPA and move on?

Edit: My current boss used to work for KPMG. She left after a few years. I asked why and she said just because she didn't not like it <I think she was being polite and she is one of the nicest person around>

 

[JS80]

Tax sux. Audit sux a lil less. Congrats on offer.

 

[Xcobra]

Originally posted by: Svnla
OP, 53K in SF is kinda low don't you think? Plus like others said already, you are expected to work 60 hrs or more per week.

But if you need experience, then stay with it for a few years, probably get them pay for CPA and move on?

Exactly what I was thinking. Well they offered a hiring bonus (2K)...If this is what the average big firm is paying, is it at least fair (the salary)? I was hoping for maybe high 50s...man i dont know what to do...especially since I busted my ass (worked average 9 1/2 hrs during the internship...

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Xcobra

Originally posted by: Svnla
OP, 53K in SF is kinda low don't you think? Plus like others said already, you are expected to work 60 hrs or more per week.

But if you need experience, then stay with it for a few years, probably get them pay for CPA and move on?

Exactly what I was thinking. Well they offered a hiring bonus (2K)...If this is what the average big firm is paying, is it at least fair (the salary)? I was hoping for maybe high 50s...man i dont know what to do...

dude that is really good salary for staff1 in this environment.

 

[Xcobra]

Originally posted by: JS80
Tax sux. Audit sux a lil less. Congrats on offer.

Well I did Tax (what they call International Assignments Solution)....wasn't so bad...i liked it...I basically prepared a bunch of tax calcs for people who are on assignment out of the U.S. Pretty neat.

 

[Xcobra]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Xcobra

Originally posted by: Svnla
OP, 53K in SF is kinda low don't you think? Plus like others said already, you are expected to work 60 hrs or more per week.

But if you need experience, then stay with it for a few years, probably get them pay for CPA and move on?

Exactly what I was thinking. Well they offered a hiring bonus (2K)...If this is what the average big firm is paying, is it at least fair (the salary)? I was hoping for maybe high 50s...man i dont know what to do...

dude that is really good salary for staff1 in this environment.

I know but was thinking of maybe seeing what the others had to say...although I like PwC...

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Xcobra

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Xcobra

Originally posted by: Svnla
OP, 53K in SF is kinda low don't you think? Plus like others said already, you are expected to work 60 hrs or more per week.

But if you need experience, then stay with it for a few years, probably get them pay for CPA and move on?

Exactly what I was thinking. Well they offered a hiring bonus (2K)...If this is what the average big firm is paying, is it at least fair (the salary)? I was hoping for maybe high 50s...man i dont know what to do...

dude that is really good salary for staff1 in this environment.

I know but was thinking of maybe seeing what the others had to say...although I like PwC...

pwc has the rep for offering lowest salary of the big four (usually 2-3k below competitors), but also has the rep for having the most pompous associates. so consider yourself lucky to get in.

you say you don't know what to do? i.e. do you have other offers? what are your alternatives? AFAIK pwc starting offers are non-negotiable at your level.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Xcobra

Originally posted by: JS80
Tax sux. Audit sux a lil less. Congrats on offer.

Well I did Tax (what they call International Assignments Solution)....wasn't so bad...i liked it...I basically prepared a bunch of tax calcs for people who are on assignment out of the U.S. Pretty neat.

but you can you imagine doing that for the rest. of. your. life? sitting a cube filling out tax forms?

 

[Blieb]

Congrats on the offer!! Sounds like your hard work paid off!

 

[Xcobra]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Xcobra

Originally posted by: JS80
Tax sux. Audit sux a lil less. Congrats on offer.

Well I did Tax (what they call International Assignments Solution)....wasn't so bad...i liked it...I basically prepared a bunch of tax calcs for people who are on assignment out of the U.S. Pretty neat.

but you can you imagine doing that for the rest. of. your. life? sitting a cube filling out tax forms?

Well its not just about filing out tax returns, they are about 50-50 with consulting. Thats what I like about this group. Its not like corporate tax that basically pumping tax returns is your job. Here, you get to talk to teh assignees one-on-one and give advice. Of course I cant do it right from teh start but starting on senior associate, you start the consulting part.

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Xcobra

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Xcobra

Originally posted by: Svnla
OP, 53K in SF is kinda low don't you think? Plus like others said already, you are expected to work 60 hrs or more per week.

But if you need experience, then stay with it for a few years, probably get them pay for CPA and move on?

Exactly what I was thinking. Well they offered a hiring bonus (2K)...If this is what the average big firm is paying, is it at least fair (the salary)? I was hoping for maybe high 50s...man i dont know what to do...

dude that is really good salary for staff1 in this environment.

I know but was thinking of maybe seeing what the others had to say...although I like PwC...

pwc has the rep for offering lowest salary of the big four (usually 2-3k below competitors), but also has the rep for having the most pompous associates. so consider yourself lucky to get in.

you say you don't know what to do? i.e. do you have other offers? what are your alternatives? AFAIK pwc starting offers are non-negotiable at your level.

Well I do consider myself lucky BUT I put in all the time I had and effort towards the internship so in a way, I earned it.

I still have another year in college so I can recruit with others this fall. But I think it will be worth it working there.

 

[CPA]

If you take it, please, please, please, don't act like you know everything when you're auditing a client on site. And please, don't treat the client's accounting staff as if they're always trying to hide something. It makes you look young and stupid.

 

[Svnla]

I believe that audit is a good field to go into <if you are good at numbers and detail oriented>. Another good thing about audit is SOX and you can't be outsourced to other third world countries with cheaper labor <rules and regulations>.

If you done well in school, with a positive can do attitute, work well with others, especially able to deal with difficult/demanding clients (the social factor), study for your CPA and get your CIA, CFE certs, then the sky is the limit.