Workhorse & Gaming PC Build

[John Duders]

1. What YOUR PC will be used for.
Work and my primary gaming device. I work as a web developer and need several applications open at once to do my job. (Photoshop, coding software, Skype, FTP software, browsers, etc.) I also plan on using this machine for lots of gaming. I play pretty much everything.

2. What YOUR budget is.
Around $1600.

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.
United States using Newegg.

4. IF YOU have a brand preference.
I prefer Intel/ATI.

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.
I currently have a HAF 932 Full Tower case, a pretty nice Logitech mouse, and speakers.

6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads.
Been researching for a few weeks on various forums.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.
I plan on nudging the CPU a bit. I like flexibility. I also plan on buying a second GPU for CrossFire later in the year. (And maybe a second monitor)

8. What resolution YOU plan on gaming with.
Hopefully 1080.

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?
In about 3 weeks. I'm going to watch for discounts and combo deals in the meantime.

This is my current build:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=11487205

I have a few concerns:

1. I've been hearing that the i7 950 is going to replace the 930 in a few months. Should I still go for the 930 in it's current state?
2. Any noticeable incompatibilities or bottlenecks?
3. Am I safe with the HD 5850 for a while, especially since I plan on using CrossFire later in the year?
4. Did I pick out a pretty good monitor for the money?

​

Any additional suggestions or comments? I'm getting pretty antsy and want to get this thing built.

Thanks!

 

[Sp12]

5850 will be fine, but this specific model is non-reference (will have limited voltage control and therefore worse overclocking). Depending on the version of PS you use, an Nvidia card could be used to accelerate previews (not terribly relevant with a high-end CPU).

That RAM uses 1.6 volts for 1600, find a set that runs 1.5 at 1600.

I'm not sure an X58 platform is right for you. A P55 platform is cheaper, and will allow you to move up to 8 GB of ram for the same price, while also netting you a faster processor. Do you live near microcenter? If so, they have the 930 for 200$, a significantly more palatable price for an X58 platform. If you don't have one nearby, you could alternatively spend an extra 50$ for a Xeon 5620 (32nm, 2.4 Ghz, 50% more cache than the 930).

Crossfire is not the best upgrade path right now, as ATI's Southern Island part will launch Q4 this year. If you still want to crossfire, then the X58 platform will be ~4% (maximally) faster for that.

I would definitely consider getting multiple monitors. HIGHLY recommend it for the number of applications you'll have open.

An ATI eyefinity setup (3 monitors) would allow you to be more productive, and would also be a significant step up in gaming. Only issue is that you'll likely have to drop AA/AF settings to get good frames, and of course you triple your cost of monitors, which is a pretty strong deal-breaker. It would be a basically one-time expense though.

That PSU is overkill, I would grab an efficient 6/7 50w Seasonic (or other well-reputed brand like Corsair/Antec). 750 if you want to upgrade via crossfire.

Edit: Also, that monitor appears to be TN, and will suck for photoshop.

Also, for that number of apps open concurrently an SSD or dedicated HD may be worthwhile.

 

[mfenn]

I'll answer your questions then give some general comments:
1. There is always something faster right around the corner. In a month, you'll probably pay less for the GPU as well because GF104 will be out. But then SI will be just around the corner... See my point? If you need it, then right now is always the perfect time to buy.
2. Everything seems compatible to me.
3. A 5850 will be good for a year or so of all-max at 1080P. With CFX, about twice that.
4. The monitor is fine. All the TN panels in the ~$250 segment are basically identical. For productivity work, I think the extra vertical pixels of a 1920x1200 monitor is worth it. This ASUS 25.5" is 1920x1200 and is $240 AR/promo until tomorrow. Anandtech liked it enough to include it in their buyer's guide a few months back.

OK, so some general comments:
1. You could save quite a bit by going for an AMD build. Maybe get a 1055T or 955BE along with a ~$160 or so 890FX mobo. You could also go down to 4GB of RAM with such a build.
2. If you stick with LGA 1366, I really like the ASRock X58 Extreme 3. ASRock is a spin-off of ASUS, so you get quality boards without paying the "ASUS tax".
3. You can save a few bucks by getting the normal G.Skill instead of the Ripjaws. CAS 9 vs. CAS 8 isn't going to matter much and you don't have to worry about the tall Ripjaws heatspreaders blocking the HSF.

 

[John Duders]

5850 will be fine, but this specific model is non-reference (will have limited voltage control and therefore worse overclocking). Depending on the version of PS you use, an Nvidia card could be used to accelerate previews (not terribly relevant with a high-end CPU).

That RAM uses 1.6 volts for 1600, find a set that runs 1.5 at 1600.

Sounds good.

I'm not sure an X58 platform is right for you. A P55 platform is cheaper, and will allow you to move up to 8 GB of ram for the same price, while also netting you a faster processor. Do you live near microcenter? If so, they have the 930 for 200$, a significantly more palatable price for an X58 platform. If you don't have one nearby, you could alternatively spend an extra 50$ for a Xeon 5620 (32nm, 2.4 Ghz, 50% more cache than the 930).

Unfortunately, I don't live by a Microcenter. I've been hearing about that deal from a few of my buddies, I hate missing out on stuff like that.

I looked around for decently rated P55 boards and most of what I saw was dual channel and not triple channel. Should I be re-thinking that option?

Crossfire is not the best upgrade path right now, as ATI's Southern Island part will launch Q4 this year. If you still want to crossfire, then the X58 platform will be ~4% (maximally) faster for that.

Would my best option be to buy a middle of the road GPU and sell it in the winter when SI comes out?

An ATI eyefinity setup (3 monitors) would allow you to be more productive, and would also be a significant step up in gaming. Only issue is that you'll likely have to drop AA/AF settings to get good frames, and of course you triple your cost of monitors, which is a pretty strong deal-breaker. It would be a basically one-time expense though.

I definitely don't have have the extra money for more than one monitor right now, but I have every intention on getting a second one before the year is out. I'd like my build to be flexible enough to easily add another.

Edit: Also, that monitor appears to be TN, and will suck for photoshop.

I'm definitely out of the loop when it comes to picking out monitors. I'm currently using a 21 inch iMac (and have been for a few years). What would you recommend?

Thanks for your response.

 

[John Duders]

OK, so some general comments:
1. You could save quite a bit by going for an AMD build. Maybe get a 1055T or 955BE along with a ~$160 or so 890FX mobo. You could also go down to 4GB of RAM with such a build.

I know 4GB of RAM is fine for gaming, but this thing is needs some serious multitasking power. Would an AMD/4GB RAM be a good alternative without sacrificing power?

2. If you stick with LGA 1366, I really like the ASRock X58 Extreme 3. ASRock is a spin-off of ASUS, so you get quality boards without paying the "ASUS tax".

Haha, this is the first PC I've built in about 6 years, so things like this are good to know. That board looks good and will save me a bit of dough.

3. You can save a few bucks by getting the normal G.Skill instead of the Ripjaws. CAS 9 vs. CAS 8 isn't going to matter much and you don't have to worry about the tall Ripjaws heatspreaders blocking the HSF.

Awesome, thanks for the tip.

 

[mfenn]

I looked around for decently rated P55 boards and most of what I saw was dual channel and not triple channel. Should I be re-thinking that option?

All LGA1156 boards are dual-channel because all of those processors "only" have dual-channel memory controllers. The extra memory bandwidth offered by a triple-channel memory controller is pretty much irrelevant unless you (a) run synthetic benchmarks all day long or (b) are running a high-throughput database.

 

[John Duders]

All LGA1156 boards are dual-channel because all of those processors "only" have dual-channel memory controllers. The extra memory bandwidth offered by a triple-channel memory controller is pretty much irrelevant unless you (a) run synthetic benchmarks all day long or (b) are running a high-throughput database.

So dual-channel isn't being phased out any time soon? I can safely buy a dual-channel board and be in good shape?

 

[mfenn]

So dual-channel isn't being phased out any time soon? I can safely buy a dual-channel board and be in good shape?

Erm, I think you're a little confused. The number of memory channels does not determine what CPUs are compatible. The socket and (to a lesser extent) the chipset determine that.

To answer the question I think you were trying to ask, both current Intel sockets are dead on their feet. A couple more speed bumps and price drops are in the works, but nothing major is going to come out for either LGA1156 or LGA1366. LGA1156 will be dead as of Q4 2010/Q1 2011. LGA1366 will be dead in the Q2/Q3 2011 timeframe. AMD's socket AM3 is the only currently available socket that will have a major new architecture in the future.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about the socket longevity too much. I do think LGA1156 or AM3 would be better options for you for the reasons that Sp12 and myself have previously posted.

 

[John Duders]

Erm, I think you're a little confused. The number of memory channels does not determine what CPUs are compatible. The socket and (to a lesser extent) the chipset determine that.

I wasn't talking about CPU compatibilities, I was wondering if I was limiting myself using dual-channel and 4GB instead of triple-channel and 6GB.

To answer the question I think you were trying to ask, both current Intel sockets are dead on their feet. A couple more speed bumps and price drops are in the works, but nothing major is going to come out for either LGA1156 or LGA1366. LGA1156 will be dead as of Q4 2010/Q1 2011. LGA1366 will be dead in the Q2/Q3 2011 timeframe. AMD's socket AM3 is the only currently available socket that will have a major new architecture in the future.

That makes me want to lean towards AMD and AM3. Haha, I'm starting to reconsider my entire build.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about the socket longevity too much. I do think LGA1156 or AM3 would be better options for you for the reasons that Sp12 and myself have previously posted.

Back to the drawing board for me.

 

[mfenn]

That makes me want to lean towards AMD and AM3. Haha, I'm starting to reconsider my entire build.

I think it would be a false economy to discount Intel solely due to socket longevity. If Intel turns out to be the best for your budget and use case, then so be it.

I wasn't talking about CPU compatibilities, I was wondering if I was limiting myself using dual-channel and 4GB instead of triple-channel and 6GB.

Oh, well in that case, here's what you need to know: There is nothing magic about dual-channel or triple-channel kits. They are just 2 or 3 identical modules packaged together. If you buy a dual-channel kit today and later upgrade to a platform (CPU+mobo) that can use triple-channel, all you would need to do is buy one more memory stick.

 

[John Duders]

Oh, well in that case, here's what you need to know: There is nothing magic about dual-channel or triple-channel kits. They are just 2 or 3 identical modules packaged together. If you buy a dual-channel kit today and later upgrade to a platform (CPU+mobo) that can use triple-channel, all you would need to do is buy one more memory stick.

That makes sense. I'm starting to catch on.

I suppose I should try a few more configurations before I settle on anything. If you have anymore advice, it's greatly appreciated. In the meantime, I'm going back to Newegg.

Thanks again.

 

[mfenn]

That makes sense. I'm starting to catch on.

I suppose I should try a few more configurations before I settle on anything. If you have anymore advice, it's greatly appreciated. In the meantime, I'm going back to Newegg.

Thanks again.

No problem. Just post up your ideas and we'll be sure to pick 'em apart!

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Well, for my gaming rig, I use a true 120Hz LCD

The latest 1080p 120Hz is the Acer = http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824009222

It's up to you

GL HF

 

[Sp12]

I have some reading for choosing the monitor.

http://www.techenclave.com/consumer-electronics/tn-vs-ips-which-is-better-130634.html

http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/lcd-panel-types.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP7C00BIzH8

Basically, IPS panels have better image quality, color reproduction, and viewing angles compared to TN, but TN is cheaper and has a faster response time, for example, the only 120hz screens are TN. However, they also exhibit color banding and hue variation from different angles.

A solid, medium blue filling the entire screen on a TN panel will be lavender near the top and a much lighter sky blue near the bottom, simply from the difference in viewing angles from the top to bottom.

Also, here's a quick breakdown of the 3 major platforms out right now.

X58

• Triple channel memory
• Most expensive
• Has 2 full X16 slots for Crossfire/Sli, ~4% faster than other platforms in crossfire
• End of life Q3 2011

P55

• Dual channel memory
• Mainstream, supports i3 through P55 i7 processors
• One X16 slot, split into two X8 slots for Crossfire
• End of life Q4 2010

AMD AM3 with an 800 series chipset (various)

• Dual channel memory
• All market segments
• PCIe lanes vary by chipset
• Integrated Sata3
• Not EOL'd

Note that EOL isn't a huge deal, the socket continues to have value, but future microprocessors will be planned for a different socket, and thus leaves you without as many options going forward.

The best high-end bang/buck CPUs for each chipset:

X58: i7 930 or Xeon 5620
P55: i7 875k/i7 860/i5 750
AM3: X4 945/X6 1055t

 

[John Duders]

Thanks again, guys. All this information has been invaluable. Definitely feeling more confident about looking at new parts.

If anyone has a build they want to post that would fit my criteria of ~$1,600. As mentioned above, I already have a case, mouse, and speakers. I'm open to pretty much anything at this point. (Build must include a monitor and OS).

In the meantime, I'll also be coming up with a new build and will post it when it's ready.

 

[Sp12]

Two IPS dells:

23 in 270$

24 in 550$

Both have displayport, but the 24in seems to be geared for visual design. I'm (as usual) unable to find much info on the dell site, but do know the 24 inch is highly recommended. Unfortunately, I can't see it in your budget.

64 bit windows 7 pro OEM. 140

So for windows and the 23 inch monitor is 410$, leaving you with 1190 for the rest of the build.

 

[mfenn]

Two IPS dells:

23 in 270$

24 in 550$

Both have displayport, but the 24in seems to be geared for visual design. I'm (as usual) unable to find much info on the dell site, but do know the 24 inch is highly recommended. Unfortunately, I can't see it in your budget.

64 bit windows 7 pro OEM. 140

So for windows and the 23 inch monitor is 410$, leaving you with 1190 for the rest of the build.

Your Dell links are borked, but I presume you are talking about the U2311 and the U2410. Both are excellent monitors. I have a U2410 and love it. The U2311 is basically the same thing for the more budget-conscious.

 

[Sp12]

Your Dell links are borked, but I presume you are talking about the U2311 and the U2410. Both are excellent monitors. I have a U2410 and love it. The U2311 is basically the same thing for the more budget-conscious.

>< borked indeed, but yes, those are it.

At ~1200 dollars you can go for either a P55 I7 or Amd X6 platform, I recommend the X6 over an X4 for this price range because even the cheapest X6 turbos up to the fastest X4. P55 is better than X58 because those processors turbo a lot higher (up to 3.6 for a quad), whereas the X58's triple channel isn't as relevant.

You mentioned you heard about the microcenter deals from a few of your buddies... Do you think it would be possible for you to get them to buy you a proc. from there? The i7 875K is a really good deal for 200.

 

[DominionSeraph]

No SSD?

 

[nyker96]

if you overclock I think the following build will be just as fast for less money:
https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/MySavedWishDetail.aspx?ID=11141274

when overclocked to about 3,5-6, this rig matches i7s. and you'd have money left for something useful like an SSD.

 

[Sp12]

if you overclock I think the following build will be just as fast for less money:
https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/MySavedWishDetail.aspx?ID=11141274

when overclocked to about 3,5-6, this rig matches i7s. and you'd have money left for something useful like an SSD.

That list is private (must have Newegg login). Take a screenie or list it out.

And consider that i7s overclock as well. Chances are this build will need 8GB of ram for the number of concurrent apps in the usage model.


Here's a quick AMD build I threw together.

OD Bulk lightscribe burner 20$
Case: Antec 900 100
HD Samsung F3 70
Mobo: Ga-870A-UD3 95
GPU: XFX Radeon 5850 295
PSU: Seasonic 650 160
RAM: 2* Ripjaws 200 (8GB)
CPU: 1055t 200
Cooler: Hyper 212 plus 50

Total: 1205 w/o OS. Add 99/140+270 for the OS/23 in monitor.

I spent more than necessary on the PSU because of it's superb quality, 10% off code, and gold efficiency. There's likely a few other places you could shave a few dollars with cheaper parts.

An Intel build would be basically identical, but have any of:

i5 750 200 (matches AMD's price, quadcore, best Intel value if you can't get an 875K)
i7 860 280 (hyperthreading, worst option)
i7 875K 330/200 (assuming you can get a CPU via a friend from microcenter, best value, otherwise, it's the worst)

With a GA-P55A-UD3. Neither this nor the AMD build have enough PCIe lanes for crossfire, but crossfire isn't ideal with this timing, and the crossfire version are ~40$ more, possible place to spend more if that option is important to you later.

The RAM, PSU, and mobos all have 10% off codes this month, totaling about 40$ in savings, and there's a MIR on the case for 20$.

Edit: ummm ninja'd. A lot. Our builds are pretty close though . The biggest thing with this build is whether or not you can get your friends you heard the microcenter deal from to grab you an 875K for 200$.

 

[John Duders]

>< borked indeed, but yes, those are it.

At ~1200 dollars you can go for either a P55 I7 or Amd X6 platform, I recommend the X6 over an X4 for this price range because even the cheapest X6 turbos past the fastest X4.

Funny you should mention the AMD X6, I just made a build for that CPU. How does this look:

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=19511808

I'll maybe throw in an SSD and in a few months, I'll add 4 more GB of RAM.

 

[mfenn]

Funny you should mention the AMD X6, I just made a build for that CPU. How does this look:

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=19511808

I'll maybe throw in an SSD and in a few months, I'll add 4 more GB of RAM.

The Phenom II X6 is a good CPU, but I don't think if it is going to have as good of performance as the Intel build for your intended use. It is about $200 cheaper though.

Regarding specifics, I'm pretty meh on Fermi, I think you would be better off with a 5870. A 750W PSU is pretty necessary as well; a 650W would be fine. That motherboard is also a bit much as the GA-870A-UD3 is more than enough mobo. The savings on the PSU and mobo should easily cover the cost of the 5870.

 

[John Duders]

@Sp12 : Haha, I think we were on the same page with that AMD build. I'm definitely digging that set-up and we could even take the Antec case off of the price because I already have a HAF 932. I believe I'm going to go with the X6.

@mfenn : I guess my last question is whether to go with Fermi or the HD5870. I really can't decide. Do you have specific reasons why you prefer one over the other?

 

[Sp12]

@Sp12 : Haha, I think we were on the same page with that AMD build. I'm definitely digging that set-up and we could even take the Antec case off of the price because I already have a HAF 932. I believe I'm going to go with the X6.

@mfenn : I guess my last question is whether to go with Fermi or the HD5870. I really can't decide. Do you have specific reasons why you prefer one over the other?

Awesome, but it's really worth considering an 875K build if you can get it from one of your friends near microcenter for 200$. The 875K is a better price/performance (as well as flat out performance) part than any AMD chip if you can get it for that price.

Regardless, definitely get those ripjaws I listed, as they're 10&#37; off, 1600 speed, and 1.5 volts. I would get 8GB. The seasonic is easily one of the top 5 PSUs in production, and is 10% off as well. I think you should get an 800 series AMD board for the integrated sata3 and better OCing.

Ummm, Fermi vs Cypress. Fermi has better DX11 and tesselation, but worse overclocking, heat, and energy efficiency.

The best bang/buck in the highend GPU segment right now is the 5850, I would not go with the 5870 as it's only ~4% faster per clock than a 5850. A 5850 at the same clockspeeds as a 5870 will be within 4% in game, but for at least 100$ less. I would also hold off buying a 5870 as Southern Islands are so close to launch, and it makes little sense to buy an enthusiast card when a higher-performance series is so close. I would grab a 5850 now, and probably sell it when SI comes out (assuming SI lives up to the claimed specs).

Fermis are not as good price/performance, and produce a lot of heat. They're not bad, and are better general purpose GPUs (can help in photoshop a bit), but aren't as good values.