Of course that varies by company on how much salary they pay, I bet the IT managers/directors in the same company whom have degrees make twice as much. They (you) won't reach that level w/o a degree... if I own a company, no high school grad will be running any department of mine, esp IT. Except Bill Gates types.
Congrats Shark and others that mentioned getting IT jobs very recently. Starting to look a little bit better out there, at least the door is cracked open now.
I've been watching the job boards, and it seems that the largest crack in the door is in the Mortgage and medical industries. Wierd, but at least things ARE getting better.
Well I guess that ceiling must be higher than $250,000/yr, since my friend makes that without certs or a degree.
Would Bill Gates get any credit if he wasn't already rich? I seriously doubt it... people would just be calling him a nerd.
I put emphasis on the individual's intelligence. You can find anyone with degree, it doesn't prove anything except they had the persistence to stay in school. There are plenty of smart people who went to college, and plenty of idiots, too.
I'd look at the individual and look at their capabilities, because that's the only thing that matters. Formal schooling is not the only way to learn, some do it on their own.
In the end, the cream of the crop will rise to the top regardless of their schooling. Currently the richest man in the world is a man without a degree. Say all you want, but the fact remains that some of the richest men in the world are self-made men who did it without a degree.
I'd look at the individual and look at their capabilities, because that's the only thing that matters. Formal schooling is not the only way to learn, some do it on their own.
In the end, the cream of the crop will rise to the top regardless of their schooling. Currently the richest man in the world is a man without a degree. Say all you want, but the fact remains that some of the richest men in the world are self-made men who did it without a degree.
Hate to do it, but I have to disagree again...I work for a VERY large telecom as a network engineer (ISP side) and most of my co-workers have no degrees. The Directors and Managers do not either.
Some big companies are now looking at the person's knowledge level, not what pieces of paper they carry. I hate nothing more than a "book CCNA" to come in thinking he is hot stuff, only to be gone in a matter of months, simply having the paper just won't cut it anymore. The best of the best are out there hunting for jobs, paper or not.
Don't get me wrong...nothing detrimental about having a degree or certs.
We have hijacked his thread, Congrats again.
Wasn't there an article about how this would be illegal in texas (stating you are an "engineer" without a degree)? No offense, but you shouldn't be able to say you are an engineer without having gone through a rigorous program and/or pass some sort of exam.
Jeez, nobody is claiming that this is a universal law (ie, that no degree = glass ceiling). There will always be exceptions to this and anything else. On average, though, I don't think any reasonable person would say that a person without a degree has just as good (or better) chance of advancement than a person withouth a degree (all else being equal). Otherwise, no body would go to college!
I see why telecom's quality of service sucks. j/k
Congrats to DurocShark[/quote]
Can you really put that much emphasis on a piece of paper and ignore the person behind it?
I think one of the main problems in big businesses today is that they put too much emphasis on blind quotas and requirements, and not enough attention to spotting talent.
What about if you have no degree but you have a Cisco CCIE? The requirements to get a CCIE are much, much more demanding than a getting a 4 year degree. The failure rate is over 90 percent, and that's among the people smart enough to take the test in the first place.
Let's look at it this way:
Let's say you have two guys, one's a genius and one's a joe shmoe. The genius knew his talent, saw his direction in life, and never went to college. The joe shmoe knew his mediocrity, knew he had no chance without a degree and toughed it out to get a simple degree. The fact that one has the degree and the other does not, doesn't change the two individuals' capabilities. It's just a piece of paper. What you're left with is a genius, and a joe shmoe with a piece of paper.
I'll choose talent over anything else.
Let's say you have two guys, one's a genius and one's a joe shmoe. The genius knew his talent, saw his direction in life, and never went to college. The joe shmoe knew his mediocrity, knew he had no chance without a degree and toughed it out to get a simple degree. The fact that one has the degree and the other does not, doesn't change the two individuals' capabilities. It's just a piece of paper. What you're left with is a genius, and a joe shmoe with a piece of paper.
I'll choose talent over anything else.
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