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Woohoo, Trade War's a comin'

sandorski

sandorski

No Lifer
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...er-jets/ar-AAsxoAk?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartanntp

and

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-41397181

So, Canada and the UK are pissed over this ruling. Boeing was pissed because Delta agreed to buy a bunch of planes from Bombardier. Boeing didn't have the size of plane Delta was interested in, so they go to the US government asking for some 80% tariff, the government does some math and decides on 220%.

What happens from here is difficult to say, but this might sink the May government in the UK and possibly end Brexit itself. As for Canada it quite possibly ends the CF-18 Super Hornet purchase from Boeing and countervailing duties on US products are likely to be imposed. NAFTA and/or other International trade tribunals are going to be asked to render a verdict.

What Boeing asked for was BS from the start. What the Trump admin agreed to do is utterly indefensible.
 
"but this might sink the May government in the UK and possibly end Brexit itself."

Nothing is going to change the peoples vote, this is the UK, not some semi-democratic nation.

Not going to undo either of the democratic elections at all. We're going to have to deal with the stupidity of the voters.
 
man so many shenanigans going on in commercial aviation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_CSeries#Operators

Boeing also reportedly gave United a massive 73% discount on the 737 deal, dropping the price to $22 million per aircraft,[110] well below the CS300 market value at $36 million.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_CSeries#cite_note-111
...
On 28 April 2016, Bombardier and Delta Air Lines announced a sale for 75 CS100 firm orders and 50 options, the first aircraft should enter service in spring 2018.[116] Delta Air Lines, it was thought, would likely start using more fuel-efficient CS100s in 2018 on flights out of Los Angeles, New York and Dallas.[97] Airways News believe that a substantial 65 to 70% discount off the $71.8 million list price was provided making the final sale at $24.6–28.7 million price per aircraft; this large order from a major carrier could help Bombardier to break the Boeing/Airbus duopoly on narrowbody aircraft.
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220% tariff sounds from the commerce dept. sounds like they're trying to placate boeing incase trump pulls out of the iran deal ($20 billion in boeing aircraft)
 
sandorski said:
Uhoh, unintended consequences.

Bombardier and Airbus enter partnership over C Series

Boeing is not pleased

So what started as a Canada/US with a little bit of Britain trade spat could mothball bringing the EU into it as well. "America first" could end meaning "America last".
Click to expand...
I'm sure they will fight this as well. By giving AirBus 50.1% of the program and having them produce the aircraft in the United States at one of their facilities will be viewed as just a way to flaunt the import rules.
 
Yeah this could get ugly, plus the pall if casts over the NAFTA negotiations which sound like they are turning into a shit show with the Trump admin trying to sabotage them deliberately.

So much winning!
 
hal2kilo said:
Wasn't part of the reason for the Great Depression due to tariff wars? I'm so happy that half of this country are idiots.
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Yes, Smoot-Hawley. It was a disaster. Historically, we've only gotten away with significant tariff increases when other countries haven't retaliated by raising their own. These days, it's a guaranty they will.
 
MomentsofSanity said:
I'm sure they will fight this as well. By giving AirBus 50.1% of the program and having them produce the aircraft in the United States at one of their facilities will be viewed as just a way to flaunt the import rules.
Click to expand...

I'm sure Boeing will. There should not have been a Tariff to start with, but poor leadership in the US is currently in style. There is another aspect to this story though, Bombardier/Airbus deal could lead to C Series breakthrough in Asia Markets. Boeings' hamfisted attempts at thwarting a competitor may have just made accelerated the threat.
 
Boeing deserves to lose those contracts and the US gov deserves to be punished for this crap. Trade protectionism helps only the uncompetitive and incompetent, and it always hurts the world at large. Hopefully Theresa May goes down but I wouldn't hold your breath on that. British politics are almost as retarded as american politics and in some ways they are much worse.
 
sandorski said:
I'm sure Boeing will. There should not have been a Tariff to start with, but poor leadership in the US is currently in style. There is another aspect to this story though, Bombardier/Airbus deal could lead to C Series breakthrough in Asia Markets. Boeings' hamfisted attempts at thwarting a competitor may have just made accelerated the threat.
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Boeing doesn't really have a product to sell into the market the c-series is aimed at. Their last plane that size Boeing marketed was the 717 which was originally a McDonald-Douglas product they acquired when they bought MD and killed shortly thereafter. Delta is the biggest operator of the 717 by far ironically enough.
 
FIVR said:
Boeing deserves to lose those contracts and the US gov deserves to be punished for this crap. Trade protectionism helps only the uncompetitive and incompetent, and it always hurts the world at large. Hopefully Theresa May goes down but I wouldn't hold your breath on that. British politics are almost as retarded as american politics and in some ways they are much worse.
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Its ok, our politics are still better than the authoritarian oligarchy you live under in Russia.
 
brycejones said:
Boeing doesn't really have a product to sell into the market the c-series is aimed at. Their last plane that size Boeing marketed was the 717 which was originally a McDonald-Douglas product they acquired when they bought MD and killed shortly thereafter. Delta is the biggest operator of the 717 by far ironically enough.
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Exactly why this whole situation was stupid to pursue by Boeing to start with. This was a pre-emptive action by Boeing. Bombardier has been steadily developing ever larger aircraft over the last few decades and being very successful with each new Market Segment it entered. Perhaps this deal will cause Bombardier not to develop further larger aircraft, we'll have to wait and see how that turns out, but it certainly makes Bombardier and Airbus a more potent threat to Boeing. Especially if Boeing begins facing foreign hostility as a result.
 
I am surprised China didn't buy in. If Trump pushes Canada into China's open arms, that is going to be a huge geopolitical coup.
 
brycejones said:
I think Canadians are hoping we come to our senses in 2020. Until then they will probably hold their collective noses to protect from the stench coming north.
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Unfortunately the nature of our intertwined economies won't let us just hold our noses and wait. It will be interesting to see the dynamic of the relationship once this sad experiment is over.
 
By 2020, the Republican party, with approval of pet SCOTUS will have vote suppression firmly in place, so that even if Americans come to their senses, not much they will be able to do about it. Canada should be making new friends.
 
sandorski said:
Uhoh, unintended consequences.

Bombardier and Airbus enter partnership over C Series

Boeing is not pleased

So what started as a Canada/US with a little bit of Britain trade spat could mothball bringing the EU into it as well. "America first" could end meaning "America last".
Click to expand...

Yeah, that the US can get their imports from Russia has been shown by the massive increase in imports from there (a sanctioned state?) but exports?

I have a feeling that deals that are being handled during this period will ensure that more deals like these are being made. You can't have a trade partner you cannot trust to deliver.
 
I think the contention is that this particular aircraft was heavily subsidized by governments. Another contention was that this aircraft was being sold at less than 1/2 cost of manufacture, a frequent indicator of monopolistic moves. I am not entirely sure as this appears to be a significantly complex issue.


As the U.S. Department of Commerce should announce eventual measures against Bombardier on 25 September 2017, Spirit Airlines and Sun Country Airlines presented their support of the CSeries, benefiting US travelers while Boeing does not offer any 100-140 seat aircraft.[131] On 26 September, the Department of Commerce announced it found that Bombardier received subsidies of 220%, will collect deposits based on these preliminary rates and is scheduled to announce its final determination on 12 December 2017
Click to expand...
 
senseamp said:
I am surprised China didn't buy in. If Trump pushes Canada into China's open arms, that is going to be a huge geopolitical coup.
Click to expand...

China doesn't have the tech to sell, most of their tech is licensed out of Russia and they cannot sell any products that derive of the tech either. But we can.

I'm seeing a good thing happening here where less reliance on an unstable nation is building a more global trade. It's not necessarily a bad thing for Canada and Mexico at all but it sure as hell is a bad thing for the US.

However, the US is restoring it's former glory with the use of coal so... there's that for you to hope for.
 
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