Woman Died After Muslim Nurse Refused To Help

[jackstar7]

Deduction and logic are not on speakiing terms with you, so it is not a surprise you cannot follow along.

So you have no actual response. You could have just said so.

 

[cybrsage]

Response to what? You post nonsense and expect to be taken seriously?

 

[cybrsage]

OK, I'm interested in your research showing the evidence that stalin persecuted people because of a belife/lack of belief in god rather than the fact he was an authoritarian arsehole.

Sure thing:

Religion
Main article: Religion in the Soviet Union
Although raised in the Georgian Orthodox faith, Stalin was an atheist. Stalin followed the position adopted by Lenin that religion was an opiate that needed to be removed in order to construct the ideal communist society. His government promoted atheism through special atheistic education in schools, anti-religious propaganda, the antireligious work of public institutions (Society of the Godless), discriminatory laws, and a terror campaign against religious believers. By the late 1930s it had become dangerous to be publicly associated with religion.[88]


Just days before Stalin's death, certain religious sects were outlawed and persecuted. Many religions popular in ethnic regions of the Soviet Union, including the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Catholic Churches, Baptists, Islam, Buddhism, and Judaism underwent ordeals similar to that which the Orthodox churches in other parts of the country suffered: thousands of monks were persecuted, and hundreds of churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, sacred monuments, monasteries and other religious buildings were razed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

It was because he was an atheist that he terrorized and killed those who were religious. If he was religious, he would not have attempted to destroy religion in his country.

 

[WelshBloke]

Sure thing:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

OK so you agree that it was because he was an authoritarian arsehole and didn't want his authority challenged?

 

[cybrsage]

OK so you agree that it was because he was an authoritarian arsehole and didn't want his authority challenged?

No, you are misrepresenting what I said, and I suspect it is because you were just proven wrong and simply cannot admit you are wrong about something.

Would a religious man attempt to destroy all the religions in his nation? Of course not. Would an atheist do it? Yes, as proven by Stalin.

Face it, Stalin was a atheist who, because he was an atheist, attempted to destroy all the religions in his nation. Your wishing it was not so does not magically undo history.

 

[WelshBloke]

No, you are misrepresenting what I said, and I suspect it is because you were just proven wrong and simply cannot admit you are wrong about something.

Would a religious man attempt to destroy all the religions in his nation? Of course not. Would an atheist do it? Yes, as proven by Stalin.

Face it, Stalin was a atheist who, because he was an atheist, attempted to destroy all the religions in his nation. Your wishing it was not so does not magically undo history.

Stalin crushed anything that was a threat to his authority, religious or otherwise. The fact that it involved god had very little importance to him, the threat to his authority was the important bit.

 

[jackstar7]

Response to what? You post nonsense and expect to be taken seriously?

Gotcha. Again, you could have just said you had nothing. Or really not responded at all.

 

[alzan]

I do not know about Islam, but Judaism says prays SHOULD be missed to save a life. Christianity does not have prayers which must be said at certain times, so nothing there to discuss.

Why not? It's an Abrahamic religion, just like Christianity & Judaism. I would think a guy like you would want to find out about the other branches of the tree.

Christianity does indeed have certain prayers for certain times; but I guess G-d is a little less anal about what time/how many times they must be said per day then Allah or Yahweh.

You know, having a deity with multiple personalities is a lot of bother. That's what's so great about atheism; it takes so little time out of the day, not a whole lot of stuff to remember.

There's a lot that can be discussed, you just want to pile on the Muslim nurse. Like I replied to HamburgerBoy, there's enough blame to go around; hospital admin., the nurse, the carers. Everybody screwed the pooch on this one, and the pooch didn't even get a reach around. But if just want to blame the nurse and his religion like the OP go right ahead.

 

[alzan]

Sure thing:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

It was because he was an atheist that he terrorized and killed those who were religious. If he was religious, he would not have attempted to destroy religion in his country.

So what you quoted off of Wikipedia is the entirety of the entry on Stalin or is that just you wanted us to read? I would guess that there's more then a few books about Stalin from different perspectives and authors. If someone wanted to really know about the man they'd do more than just read a one-page entry on an internet site.

 

[cybrsage]

Why not? It's an Abrahamic religion, just like Christianity & Judaism. I would think a guy like you would want to find out about the other branches of the tree.

I do know quite a lot about Islam - far more than most Christians and Jews know, and actually a bit more than many Muslims know. This is one item I do not know and frankly do not really care enough about to bother researching.

Feel free to research it yourself and post your results, though.

Christianity does indeed have certain prayers for certain times; but I guess G-d is a little less anal about what time/how many times they must be said per day then Allah or Yahweh.

Required prayers is the key. AFAIK, there are no prayers which are required to be said at specific times of the day. Maybe on unique days of the year (such as Christmas Eve Mass for Catholics - but that is not a daily prayer requirement).

You know, having a deity with multiple personalities is a lot of bother. That's what's so great about atheism; it takes so little time out of the day, not a whole lot of stuff to remember.

This shows you have so little understanding about the topic that you are making yourself look foolish.

There's a lot that can be discussed, you just want to pile on the Muslim nurse.

Your idiocy is showing again. I did not disparage him at all.

 

[cybrsage]

...

 

[LumbergTech]

At least you have stopped pretending a religious man would attempt to destroy all the religions in the nation he controls. Good for you.

Not all religions, just other religions.

 

[thraashman]

Not all religions, just other religions.

In fact we've seen it happen in history, it was called the Spanish Inquisition (and I'm sure no one expected that I was going to bring it up).

 

[cybrsage]

Not all religions, just other religions.

Stalin was an atheist. Due to this, he attempted to crush all religions. He allowed those outside of Russia to exist because he felt they would destroy those areas and keep them weak.

 

[cybrsage]

In fact we've seen it happen in history, it was called the Spanish Inquisition (and I'm sure no one expected that I was going to bring it up).

😀

 

[alzan]

I do know quite a lot about Islam - far more than most Christians and Jews know, and actually a bit more than many Muslims know. This is one item I do not know and frankly do not really care enough about to bother researching.

Feel free to research it yourself and post your results, though.




Required prayers is the key. AFAIK, there are no prayers which are required to be said at specific times of the day. Maybe on unique days of the year (such as Christmas Eve Mass for Catholics - but that is not a daily prayer requirement).



This shows you have so little understanding about the topic that you are making yourself look foolish.



Your idiocy is showing again. I did not disparage him at all.

It's questionable you know a bit more about Islam then many Muslims know. Perhaps your response is self-affirmation & ego stroking.

Saying grace before meals would be a good example of prayers at specific times of the day. It's not a requirement, but every Christian household where I've dined it has been said.

Not at all. Different societies & cultures worship G-d/Allah/Yahweh differently but they're all outward expressions of a monotheistic belief system. People use the system for different reasons; comfort in times of grief, an explanation for things not understood, justification for the enslavement of other people or for the killing of your enemies as well as the driving force of region/world domination by megalomaniacs. In Stalins case he wanted absolute power and control; getting rid of belief systems that held power and control over the people of Russia was a means to an end.

My apologies, you did not disparage the nurse.

You may want to edit your response in post 161; I believe you were meaning to respond to WelshBloke.

 

[cybrsage]

Gotcha. Again, you could have just said you had nothing. Or really not responded at all.

It is more fun to quote your inane post so you cannot delete it later and pretend you never said it.

 

[cybrsage]

It's questionable you know a bit more about Islam then many Muslims know. Perhaps your response is self-affirmation & ego stroking.

Not at all. It is an understanding that most followers of a religion actually never read much of their own holy books so therefor do not really know what is in them. You do not know this?

Saying grace before meals would be a good example of prayers at specific times of the day. It's not a requirement, but every Christian household where I've dined it has been said.

Right - and not required is obviously very different from required. In fact, it is the opposite of required.

Not at all. Different societies & cultures worship G-d/Allah/Yahweh differently but they're all outward expressions of a monotheistic belief system. People use the system for different reasons; comfort in times of grief, an explanation for things not understood, justification for the enslavement of other people or for the killing of your enemies as well as the driving force of region/world domination by megalomaniacs. In Stalins case he wanted absolute power and control; getting rid of belief systems that held power and control over the people of Russia was a means to an end.

And his atheism is what caused him to view religion as an enemy of his instead of a tool he could use. Many dictators throughout history have used religion as a method to control the masses, but Stalin - due to being an atheist - decided religon was his enemy.

My apologies, you did not disparage the nurse.

It happens, things get confusing in these threads. No biggie.

You may want to edit your response in post 161; I believe you were meaning to respond to WelshBloke.

Hmmm...dunno anymore. I will just wipe out the post.

 

[actuarial]

Would a religious man attempt to destroy all the religions in his nation? Of course not. Would an atheist do it? Yes, as proven by Stalin.

Providing a single anecdote does not prove an absolute. You have not proven that an atheist WOULD attempt to destroy all religions, simply that an atheist COULD attempt to destroy all religion.

Face it, Stalin was a atheist who, because he was an atheist, attempted to destroy all the religions in his nation. Your wishing it was not so does not magically undo history.

You have not shown that his reason for destroying all religions was because he was an atheist. You have only shown correlation, not causation.

Stalin was an atheist. Due to this, he attempted to crush all religions. He allowed those outside of Russia to exist because he felt they would destroy those areas and keep them weak.

See above.

And let's all remember your ridiculous first premise, which was:

If you consider Stalin's Soviet Union to be an improvement....well, I suppose then there is nothing that can convince you how horrible that "improvement" actually was for the people of the Soviet Union.

Basically, that the only result of an atheist ruler would be Stalin's Soviet Union. Stalin also had a mustache. Better avoid those at all costs.

 

[cybrsage]

Providing a single anecdote does not prove an absolute. You have not proven that an atheist WOULD attempt to destroy all religions, simply that an atheist COULD attempt to destroy all religion.

I already did, via Stalin. You are now circling back around in your logic.

You have not shown that his reason for destroying all religions was because he was an atheist. You have only shown correlation, not causation.

Theists do not view religion as something which needs to be destroyed. Therefor, only atheists do. Since Stalin was attempting to destroy religion, it was not due to him being an theist.

And let's all remember your ridiculous first premise, which was:

DO you still consider the USSR to be an improvement?

Basically, that the only result of an atheist ruler would be Stalin's Soviet Union. Stalin also had a mustache. Better avoid those at all costs.

Now you are being stupid on purpose. Not a surprise, you have already circled your logic, why not be stupid on purpose too?

 

[actuarial]

I already did, via Stalin. You are now circling back around in your logic.

I'm not circling back on anything. If I said "A christian would kill an abortion doctor if they lived near one" and then cited a single example of that happening, is that sufficient proof?

Theists do not view religion as something which needs to be destroyed. Therefor, only atheists do. Since Stalin was attempting to destroy religion, it was not due to him being an theist.

It was also not due to the fact that he did not have a mustache. Does that mean it was due to the fact that he had a mustache?

DO you still consider the USSR to be an improvement?

An improvement over what? I'd assume there's some places in the world today that are worse than what the USSR was.

Now you are being stupid on purpose. Not a surprise, you have already circled your logic, why not be stupid on purpose too?

What about my statement was inconsistent with your original premise? Someone said that atheism would be an improvement in some places, and you countered Stalin's Russia as your only rebuttal.

 

[jackstar7]

It is more fun to quote your inane post so you cannot delete it later and pretend you never said it.

Thanks for revealing your intent.

 

[alzan]

Not at all. It is an understanding that most followers of a religion actually never read much of their own holy books so therefor do not really know what is in them. You do not know this?



Right - and not required is obviously very different from required. In fact, it is the opposite of required.



And his atheism is what caused him to view religion as an enemy of his instead of a tool he could use. Many dictators throughout history have used religion as a method to control the masses, but Stalin - due to being an atheist - decided religon was his enemy.




It happens, things get confusing in these threads. No biggie.



Hmmm...dunno anymore. I will just wipe out the post.

I find your premise that most followers of a religion do not know what is in their holy books suspect. I highly doubt that you have met with enough followers of any religion to state categorically that they do not know what's in their holy books; if you're going simply by those you have been exposed to that's too small a sample to say "most".

Is the requirement to say prayers five times a day directly from the Quran or is it from the various haddiths(sp?) written from different societies that practice Islam? My understanding, though incomplete, is that prayer five times a day is a product of the haddiths.

That would be one interpretation of what Stalin did and why he did it. It's an interesting enough subject to delve into further. On it's face it does appear to be an opinion. Not that I've ever led a country or risen to power, nor has any other atheist I've known, but I'm not threatened by religion. As far as this country I only wish to keep in check those in power who interpret current law or create new laws through the narrow lenses of their religion.

But back on topic: the praying of the nurse was not what caused the woman's death; it was the lack of medical attention.

 

[cybrsage]

Thanks for revealing your intent.

You are quite welcome.

 

[umbrella39]

OK, I'm interested in your research showing the evidence that stalin persecuted people because of a belife/lack of belief in god rather than the fact he was an authoritarian arsehole.

8600+ wastes of space from this account alone... Ignore the trolls. Wonders if he ever gets tired of people pointing at him and laughing? I'm not speaking of every single member of P&N now either. This is obviously an IRL problem, too.