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Woman Died After Muslim Nurse Refused To Help

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Before we all put the boot into muslims (again), this is no more disgusting than those fundamentalist Christian parents that refuse blood transfusions for their children.

Zealots are zealots no matter which sky wizard they worship
 
CharlesKozierok said:
Newsflash: some stupid people are Muslim.

I very highly doubt that this person's actions are normal or representative. But that won't stop hatemongers from using isolated incidents to push their agendas.
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You're right, we should use statistics to gauge the relative impact of the immigration of different groups. Failing bleeding hearts. Uppss, they are overrepresented in crime statistics?!?!?!?
 
There are a lot of Christian boards you can post this stuff at and you will find a lot more acceptance there.
As long as you follow their rules

*There will be no anti-Jewish or anti-Christian postings allowed on this forum. Any posts that speak negatively of the Jewish or Christian people will not be tolerated.*

http://www.christianforums.net/forum.php
I'm sure they will encourage you in your fight against Islam, or Mormons, or Gays, or Witches
 
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Incorruptible said:
Except that there are many other cases similar to this with radicals though.
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Waiting to see evidence that Muslim health care professionals cause more deaths in the elderly due to unnecessary prayer than Christians.

Edit: Doesn't this suggest we should encourage atheism and avoid the problem.
 
StinkyPinky said:
It has everything to do with it.
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It has nothing to do with it. The story is a health care provider failing to discharge duties properly.

If your religion doesn't allow you to perform the duties of a particular job, then you shouldn't take that job. What's next, an Islamic loan officer who sues when he doesn't meet his loan quota.

And to you parent post, there are plenty of Christian examples. Nurses, pharmacists, birth control, and abortions to start with.

Personally, I think if you are in a first responder type job, your personal life can't trump your work duties. Religion, any religion, is personal life.
 
HamburgerBoy said:
Where do you perceive responsibility to be?

EDIT: I don't see any hyperbole in my post, btw. I basically just restated what you said, which was to effect "She died because of her own actions".
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The responsibility lies with the staff. The woman was simply going to the bathroom.

My post that you responded to "You really need to read and comprehend the article. The woman should have gone to the hospital immediately after the fall; four hours before the nurse was praying. Waiting four hours is what led to her death, not someone praying.
"lol wut. Technically the fall led her to her death. People need to simply stop doing things that lead to their deaths.

Bolded is what I took as hyperbolic. People don't normally think that going to the bathroom or falling off the toilet is going to lead to their death. But nurses and even carers know that older people, especially women, have frail bones and should be checked thoroughly after any fall. I never said or implied that she died from her own action. She died most likely because someone wasn't thorough and took four hours to call an ambulance.
 
Incorruptible said:
In many areas atheism wouldn't be a bad idea, it would improve greatly.
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If you consider Stalin's Soviet Union to be an improvement....well, I suppose then there is nothing that can convince you how horrible that "improvement" actually was for the people of the Soviet Union.
 
cybrsage said:
If you consider Stalin's Soviet Union to be an improvement....well, I suppose then there is nothing that can convince you how horrible that "improvement" actually was for the people of the Soviet Union.
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That's a total non sequitur. Stalin's government wasn't the way it was because of atheism. Stalin's government was the way it was because Stalin was a mad man. The country wasn't shitty in the name of or because of atheism, it was shitty because he was batshit insane. Please don't say stuff that requires me to respond in a way that makes it look like I even remotely agree with Incorruptible, that's just mean.
 
The man man was an atheist. If people are going to blame some of the world's ills on the religion of a nation's rulers, then they must also blame some of the world's ills on the atheism of a nation's rulers.

Stalin was the supreme leader of the USSR. He held all the cards and called all the shots. His atheism is just as important in his decisions as being Muslim does to the Iranian Supreme Council.
 
I believe we need to cultivate a society worldwide which does not respect religious belief. It needs to be treated for what it is, groundless superstition and nonsense.

Bending over backwards to be multicultural and respect everyone's little superstitions, sounds nice in principle but in practice it's dragging us all down.

There was a time when those from other cultures had a desire to actually westernize when they moved into a western country. They, rightly, drew a connection between the societal norms and cultural ideals of western civilization with the prosperity of western civilization. They were willing to take it all on board. They understood that the two could not, and should not be separated from one another.

Now that mindset has gone by the wayside for the most part, and although it may work for a time to flood into western countries and refuse to acclimate to the culture there, and still end up getting a lot of benefit of the prosperity... in the end, this will drag those countries down and I think we're seeing that already.

Some superstitions and cultural artifacts are fairly harmless, and can even make for a nice melding if brought into the country the person is moving to. The USA for instance has benefited greatly from taking ideas from a wide range of cultures which sent immigrants to us, and you can see the cherished results in everything from language to cuisine to music, and also governmental ideas to some degree. But there is a certain point where it is too much, and becomes like trying to drink from a fire hose.

You would think that there would be a fundamental understanding on the part of, for instance, Muslims who immigrate to western countries from Islamic countries that hey, if I'm moving to an entirely different part of the world because my part of the world was a violent mess of ignorance, misogyny and fear... well maybe there is something to be said for how these folks here in my new country think and do things?

Some of my fellow liberals are still stuck on this "cultural equivalence and 100% tolerance at all costs" mindset. I used to share it myself. But liberals, there comes a time to make a choice. Which do we value more? Things like gay rights, equality for women, treating children with dignity, education, science, secular truth and freedom of speech and inquiry on one hand, or tolerance of other cultures which would destroy every single one of those ideals if they had their way on the other?

It should be obvious by now which choice I've made.
 
alzan said:
The responsibility lies with the staff. The woman was simply going to the bathroom.

My post that you responded to "You really need to read and comprehend the article. The woman should have gone to the hospital immediately after the fall; four hours before the nurse was praying. Waiting four hours is what led to her death, not someone praying.
"lol wut. Technically the fall led her to her death. People need to simply stop doing things that lead to their deaths.

Bolded is what I took as hyperbolic. People don't normally think that going to the bathroom or falling off the toilet is going to lead to their death. But nurses and even carers know that older people, especially women, have frail bones and should be checked thoroughly after any fall. I never said or implied that she died from her own action. She died most likely because someone wasn't thorough and took four hours to call an ambulance.
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Fair enough that she likely would have died anyways due to the very slow reaction of the nursing home. However, the point is that this prayer could have been dangerous in another situation, and that for a hospital to put priority of the religious beliefs of their employees over the immediate care of their patients is pretty ridiculous. The nurse failed in his responsibilities too.
 
HamburgerBoy said:
Fair enough that she likely would have died anyways due to the very slow reaction of the nursing home. However, the point is that this prayer could have been dangerous in another situation, and that for a hospital to put priority of the religious beliefs of their employees over the immediate care of their patients is pretty ridiculous. The nurse failed in his responsibilities too.
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I agree the prayer should have been cut short; you can't be the only on-duty nurse on the night shift and lock yourself in your office for prayer. I'm sure Allah/Yahweh/God would be understanding. He should be under just as much scrutiny as the carers, if not more so.

As accommodating as the hospital may be towards their employees religious beliefs I highly doubt that they would give anyone a Get Out Of Jail free card in regards to patient care vs employee religious belief or the practice there of. The hospital admin. should have their own time in the hot seat for this completely avoidable situation.
 
alzan said:
I agree the prayer should have been cut short; you can't be the only on-duty nurse on the night shift and lock yourself in your office for prayer. I'm sure Allah/Yahweh/God would be understanding. He should be under just as much scrutiny as the carers, if not more so.

As accommodating as the hospital may be towards their employees religious beliefs I highly doubt that they would give anyone a Get Out Of Jail free card in regards to patient care vs employee religious belief or the practice there of. The hospital admin. should have their own time in the hot seat for this completely avoidable situation.
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Why was the hospital accommodating him though, the health of the patients is more important. I have said this before but no prayers should be allowed.

Why does society bend over backwards to pander to people.
 
Geosurface said:
I believe we need to cultivate a society worldwide which does not respect religious belief. It needs to be treated for what it is, groundless superstition and nonsense.
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Instead, lets use your logic and cultivate a society worldwide which does not respect non-religious belief. It needs to be treated for what it is, foolishness and idiocy...and quite dangerous.
 
cybrsage said:
The man man was an atheist. If people are going to blame some of the world's ills on the religion of a nation's rulers, then they must also blame some of the world's ills on the atheism of a nation's rulers.

Stalin was the supreme leader of the USSR. He held all the cards and called all the shots. His atheism is just as important in his decisions as being Muslim does to the Iranian Supreme Council.
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You read it here. Someone's lack of religion should also be taken into account regarding their actions.

Please continue.

Also, your apparent ability to commune with the dead and read the minds of the living is impressive. I had no idea that his atheism was just as important in his decisions as Islam is to other people you don't know. Fascinating.
 
cybrsage said:
Instead, lets use your logic and cultivate a society worldwide which does not respect non-religious belief. It needs to be treated for what it is, foolishness and idiocy...and quite dangerous.
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Can you also elaborate on the foolishness and idiocy... and danger! involved in not respecting superstitious nonsense?
 
alzan said:
I agree the prayer should have been cut short; you can't be the only on-duty nurse on the night shift and lock yourself in your office for prayer. I'm sure Allah/Yahweh/God would be understanding. He should be under just as much scrutiny as the carers, if not more so.
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I do not know about Islam, but Judaism says prays SHOULD be missed to save a life. Christianity does not have prayers which must be said at certain times, so nothing there to discuss.
 
jackstar7 said:
You read it here. Someone's lack of religion should also be taken into account regarding their actions.

Please continue.

Also, your apparent ability to commune with the dead and read the minds of the living is impressive. I had no idea that his atheism was just as important in his decisions as Islam is to other people you don't know. Fascinating.
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Deduction and logic are not on speakiing terms with you, so it is not a surprise you cannot follow along.
 
cybrsage said:
Deduction and logic are not on speakiing terms with you, so it is not a surprise you cannot follow along.
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OK, I'm interested in your research showing the evidence that stalin persecuted people because of a belife/lack of belief in god rather than the fact he was an authoritarian arsehole.
 
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