Woke up to NPR: Listening to Biden in China

[GTaudiophile]

I woke up to an NPR story, specifically listening to a speech from VP Biden, who is currently traveling in China.

Actually, traveling is not the right word. Groveling is the right word.

Biden went on and on about how Chinese direct investment in the US is a good thing for America, that is means more jobs for Americans.

NPR then commented on the Chinese perspective, saying something like, China wants to invest in the US, but they want the US to drop protectionist trade measures, specifically in regards to the US transfers of technology, deals that are currently prohibited for national security reasons.

Upon hearing this I just did a facepalm in bed. And then I thought of the missile guidance "scandal" that hit the Clinton Administration. And then I wondered, how desperate will Obama be in 2012? Just how much will he give the Red Chinese Communists to secure his re-election? And in the long term, how many more American jobs will be lost by thinking only in the short-term?

00:52-01:50 from the NPR Hourly News link.

 

[Doppel]

The last thing the US needs to do is open up more to China, I'm fairly sure it's not helping at all. They are intellectual thieves, to open up more to them in terms of advanced tech (as opposed to crap sold at Walmart) can't be a good thing.

EDIT: Even some of the military's weapons systems are being impacted by cheap knock-off sh*t from China: http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-14/...rts-chinese-official-guangdong?_s=PM:POLITICS

 

[Craig234]

I woke up to an NPR story, specifically listening to a speech from VP Biden, who is currently traveling in China.

Actually, traveling is not the right word. Groveling is the right word.

Biden went on and on about how Chinese direct investment in the US is a good thing for America, that is means more jobs for Americans.

NPR then commented on the Chinese perspective, saying something like, China wants to invest in the US, but they want the US to drop protectionist trade measures, specifically in regards to the US transfers of technology, deals that are currently prohibited for national security reasons.

Upon hearing this I just did a facepalm in bed. And then I thought of the missile guidance "scandal" that hit the Clinton Administration. And then I wondered, how desperate will Obama be in 2012? Just how much will he give the Red Chinese Communists to secure his re-election? And in the long term, how many more American jobs will be lost by thinking only in the short-term?

00:52-01:50 from the NPR Hourly News link.

Where is the flaw when that happens? Is it in the politicians who do what's expedient? The voters who reward them for doing so? In better leaders not making the issue better understood by the public? In the corporate media not educating the public, if not having conflicts of interest? A case can be made for each, looking to fix it.

It's a reminder why I support reducing big money in elections, and less concentration of big corporate ownership of media.

 

[Ausm]

Where is the flaw when that happens? Is it in the politicians who do what's expedient? The voters who reward them for doing so? In better leaders not making the issue better understood by the public? In the corporate media not educating the public, if not having conflicts of interest? A case can be made for each, looking to fix it.

It's a reminder why I support reducing big money in elections, and less concentration of big corporate ownership of media.

I would love to see that happen too and but I am afraid it won't happen in my lifetime. :'(

 

[GTaudiophile]

Where is the flaw when that happens? Is it in the politicians who do what's expedient? The voters who reward them for doing so? In better leaders not making the issue better understood by the public? In the corporate media not educating the public, if not having conflicts of interest? A case can be made for each, looking to fix it.

It's a reminder why I support reducing big money in elections, and less concentration of big corporate ownership of media.

I think the average American is either too stupid or too busy/preoccupied and/or too distracted by the media (Jersey Shore, sports, etc.) to connect the dots and understand the long-term implications. This applies not only to domestic and international politics but to family life, finances, etc. as well. So I guess I blame the average person as well as the media for distracting, not educating.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Slap tariffs on state-owned or excessively state subsidized companies to level the playing field.

Block importation of products made with stolen IP.

Block foreign government owned entities from buying-out US companies.

Offer incentives for companies to outsource to Mexico instead of China. (we lost the manufacturing war a long time ago, best we can hope for is to create jobs for Mexicans to reduce illegal immigration and starve China of growth)

Pay back Chinese owned debt as soon as possible.

Sell export versions for the F22 Raptor to Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, along with other goodies.

 

[sandorski]

This is what happens when people think they're impervious, implement failed Policy, continue to ignore the failure of that Policy, then watch the Economy Crash as they're leaving Office. Then your Minions shackle the next people in charge, preventing them from taking the proper measures, with the intent of recovering Power once again.

Congrats?

 

[BladeVenom]

Slap tariffs on state-owned or excessively state subsidized companies to level the playing field.

Block importation of products made with stolen IP.

Block foreign government owned entities from buying-out US companies.

Offer incentives for companies to outsource to Mexico instead of China. (we lost the manufacturing war a long time ago)

Pay back Chinese owned debt as soon as possible.

Sell export versions for the F22 Raptor to Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, along with other goodies.

I agree with most of that. But our current pathetic administration won't even sell the latest F-16s to Taiwan.

 

[Schadenfroh]

I agree with most of that. But our current pathetic administration won't even sell the latest F-16s to Taiwan.

Have they officially stated that yet? I always thought that Obama was a friend of the arms industry, with his expanding of defense spending beyond that of Bush / Reagan and his promise to help create American jobs.

The arms trade generates tons of revenue and it is one of the few areas of domestic manufacturing that truly shines. You can be as protectionist as you want with the arms industry and you will not get criticized for it. It is an excellent way to create American jobs, especially with the countries surrounding China wishing to "stock up" due to their territorial ambitions and claiming of international (and in some cases other countries) waters / land as their own.

If they have not formally declined Taiwan's request, we might see it go through once Biden gets back from China, which would be quite well played on Obama's behalf. If they announced the sale before Biden's trip, that would be the only thing that the Chinese would want to discuss. By making it look like we are halting the sale and then doing a 180 after he gets back, we can actually have constructive talks.

 

[sunzt]

Slap tariffs on state-owned or excessively state subsidized companies to level the playing field.

Block importation of products made with stolen IP.

Block foreign government owned entities from buying-out US companies.

Offer incentives for companies to outsource to Mexico instead of China. (we lost the manufacturing war a long time ago)

Pay back Chinese owned debt as soon as possible.

Sell export versions for the F22 Raptor to Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, along with other goodies.

How do you determine stolen IP? Did HTC steal Apple IP? Chinese companies mostly don't produce the final system. They mostly supply parts into US branded products which is likely the place you will find stolen IP. So various components inside your PC, Ipad, TVs, and other consumer electronics are the more likely places stolen IP would be implemented. It's not just the parts inside them either, it's a lot of the tooling, software, processes, and tools that have been used to create and integrate those parts where you may find stolen IP as well.

Japan, SK, and Taiwan have very close economic ties with China more so than to the US even so it's a double edged sword if they splurge on US weapon systems.

Selling weapon systems to China's neighbors will only result in China selling weapon systems to Iran, NK, pakistan, Afghanistan, etc.

 

[Craig234]

I'm not that familiar with the details of the issues with Taiwan, but I think it's likely the growing power of China is likely to end that decades-long stalemate.

That it would probably be nothing but waste for us to try to stop that, possibly reaching a choice of withdrawing or a large war.

In the meantime, there could be high costs leading to that as relations, trade, monetary issues, and possibly military conflicts occurred.

How would we react if China interfered to support, say, an independence movement in Guam?

 

[BladeVenom]

Have they officially stated that yet? I always thought that Obama was a friend of the arms industry, with his expanding of defense spending beyond that of Bush / Reagan and his promise to help create American jobs.

The Pentagon told Taiwan that they wouldn't sell the F-16C/D to them.

Who knows if they answer may change later.

 

[sunzt]

The Pentagon told Taiwan that they wouldn't sell the F-16C/D to them.

Who knows if they answer may change later.

What is the point of buying some F-16's anyway if they're just gonna be pwned by the massive chinese military force if it ever gets to that point for taiwan? It's not like those fighters are really gonna make china 2nd guess any sort of military offensive if they ever decide to engage in one with Taiwan.

 

[Magusigne]

What is the point of buying some F-16's anyway if they're just gonna be pwned by the massive chinese military force if it ever gets to that point for taiwan? It's not like those fighters are really gonna make china 2nd guess any sort of military offensive if they ever decide to engage in one with Taiwan.

The only thing China has really is missiles.

They can barely deploy their airforce aside from a few dozen jets at a time...

ROFL they have like...3 mid air refueling planes.

F16's would be pretty deadly.

 

[MotF Bane]

I'm not that familiar with the details of the issues with Taiwan, but I think it's likely the growing power of China is likely to end that decades-long stalemate.

That it would probably be nothing but waste for us to try to stop that, possibly reaching a choice of withdrawing or a large war.

In the meantime, there could be high costs leading to that as relations, trade, monetary issues, and possibly military conflicts occurred.

How would we react if China interfered to support, say, an independence movement in Guam?

You worthless fucking hypocrite. Is supporting a democracy too hard in this case, or would you just rather support the really big economic powerhouse to suit your own interests in getting cheap crap to purchase at the mall? I guess all your high-minded talk about supporting people looking for their freedom was just that - talk, nothing that you actually really believe in, because you're apparently happy to just let China take over a country. You'll gleefully support Obama using the military in Libya to support rebels there, but you'd like to just back off and let China conquer a country. And that's what Taiwan is, a country, not Chinese property, no longer a "breakaway province". There is no comparison to Guam, because Guam has not declared themselves separate following a civil war, Guam has not established their own democratically elected government, Guam has not presented itself to other nations as its own independent country, et cetera. It isn't even remotely similar. Fuck China's growing power. Read what Schadenfroh presented; there's a good way to reduce their growth, and better to send our dollars to countries that aren't as bad as China (see: most other countries on the planet). Maybe some of that money can go to Taiwan too, I'm sure you'd love to support them.

 

[MotF Bane]

Slap tariffs on state-owned or excessively state subsidized companies to level the playing field.

Block importation of products made with stolen IP.

Block foreign government owned entities from buying-out US companies.

Offer incentives for companies to outsource to Mexico instead of China. (we lost the manufacturing war a long time ago, best we can hope for is to create jobs for Mexicans to reduce illegal immigration and starve China of growth)

Pay back Chinese owned debt as soon as possible.

Sell export versions for the F22 Raptor to Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, along with other goodies.

The only thing I'd change is not the Raptor, how about export version Hornets though?

 

[Schadenfroh]

How do you determine stolen IP? Did HTC steal Apple IP?

Apple and Microsoft are trolling patents right now because the see the writing on the wall with the Droid army that will soon consume everything but die hard Mac loyalists and people that like shiny things. The US Patent system is in need of reforms, especially in regards to UI and software patents.

Chinese companies are notorious for counter-fitting brand names, trademarks and even entire companies.

Fake NEC:
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/05/counterfeiting_2.html

In the name of NEC, the pirates copied NEC products, and went as far as developing their own range of consumer electronic products - everything from home entertainment centers to MP3 players. They also coordinated manufacturing and distribution, collecting all the proceeds.

Ghost Shifts:
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/05/01/8375455/index.htm

Foreign contractors make more products than they're supposed to then sell the excess out the back door. New Balance found out just how hard it can be to shut down the "third shift."

Selling weapon systems to China's neighbors will only result in China selling weapon systems to Iran, NK, pakistan, Afghanistan, etc.

Funny, those countries and Venezuela seem to be armed to the teeth with Chinese and Russian heavy weapons and aircraft already. We are missing out on American jobs and revenue by not arming China's neighbors. They are, of course, free to sell their own goodies to our enemies.

apan, SK, and Taiwan have very close economic ties with China more so than to the US even so it's a double edged sword if they splurge on US weapon systems.

They want to buy them, they are our allies, and have the cash to pay for them. They should be allowed to purchase export versions of our aircraft, ships, missiles, etc. They should also be trained by American instructors, if they are willing to pay for that as well. If not, I'm sure Russia or EADS will provide them with what they need.

What is the point of buying some F-16's anyway if they're just gonna be pwned by the massive chinese military force if it ever gets to that point for taiwan?

If the communists attack the Republic of China, then there will be international condemnations and sanctions. All the ROC has to do is hold the communists off for a few months and slowly other countries that fear they might be next may join in (either with assistance to the ROC or with economic sanctions), that is if the ROC can sink an invasion force and stay in control of its own airspace. With a sea separating them and with superior NATO equipment and training, Taiwan can fight a defensive war.

How would we react if China interfered to support, say, an independence movement in Guam?

Irrelevant comparison, The Republic of China is a de facto independent country. The communists have never controlled Formosa.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
How would we react if China interfered to support, say, an independence movement in Guam?

With a big "Who gives a fvck"?

Fern

 

[Karl Agathon]

Sell export versions for the F22 Raptor to Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, along with other goodies.

I'm all for that! Those countries must be able to defend themselves from Chinese billigerence and bullying.