Leeches indeed. Scambus could have sued or threatened to sue the industry *before* DDR took hold. But they knew full well that excess profits could be made by allowing everybody to swim in "their" pool before taking away their clothing. If it's truly their IP, fine. But it's obviously the greedy fatcats timed everything in the best interests of their bottom line and in the worst interests of consumers. :disgust:
I am not convinced that RAMBUS truly invented SDRAM and DDRAM technologies. The appending of patents to very broad initial concepts, whilst they were in JEDEC (just because JEDEC did not keep formal minutes doesn't mean RAMBUS didn't participate) I am sure reflects JEDEC discussions and a breach of trust.
The fact that memory manufacturers chose to pay RAMBUS a small royalty is a problem of economics and cowardice. They didn't want an expensive legal battle. I don't understand the applicable laws, but I sense that in America the loser DOESN'T have to pay the winner's costs- this is illogical. The small royalty must have looked preferable to protacted expensive legal battles AFFECTING THE SHARE PRICES OF THESE CHIP COMPANIES. That's what it probably was about. As soon as the stockmarket learns the company is getting embroiled in such expensive uncertain actions... the shareholders like much better then news that a couple of per cent royalties are being paid, but ho hum business continues as usual... and the dividends...nice and cosy, no upsets.
The fact that memory manufacturers chose to pay RAMBUS a small royalty is a problem of economics and cowardice. They didn't want an expensive legal battle. I don't understand the applicable laws, but I sense that in America the loser DOESN'T have to pay the winner's costs- this is illogical. The small royalty must have looked preferable to protacted expensive legal battles AFFECTING THE SHARE PRICES OF THESE CHIP COMPANIES. That's what it probably was about. As soon as the stockmarket learns the company is getting embroiled in such expensive uncertain actions... the shareholders like much better then news that a couple of per cent royalties are being paid, but ho hum business continues as usual... and the dividends...nice and cosy, no upsets.
The fact that memory companies are "caving" has NOTHING to do with the legality of their patents and everything to do with the legal cost of proving that they're illegal. It's quite simply cheaper to pay up the royalties then to wage a massive court battle. rambus may have had Ip tech go into the SDRAM spec, but the manner in which the most of patents were obtained is illegal. Saying that they're innocent because they get away with what they're doing is ridiculous. A murderer can walk on a legal technicality, but that doesn't make him innocent (I'm not calling rambus murderers, I'm just making a point).
That is crazy. Micron & Samsung have tons of money that could bury rambus beyond recognition if they had even a glimpse of a victory in court. Keep dreamin' 
Micron would have spanked rambus within an inch of rambus' life and then bludgeond a freight train up their arse and down their throat by now. Reality is that these monstrously huge memory company's pay royalties to lil' Rambus for a reason other than court costs vs. royalty costs which since none of us know these costs for sure - this is mostly vast, & I mean VAST, speculation @ best... You gents actually believe that court costs become prohibitive @ a certain point for large corporations @ stake of paying royalties indefinatly? No way. There must be something more to it than that...
Micron would have spanked rambus within an inch of rambus' life and then bludgeond a freight train up their arse and down their throat by now. Reality is that these monstrously huge memory company's pay royalties to lil' Rambus for a reason other than court costs vs. royalty costs which since none of us know these costs for sure - this is mostly vast, & I mean VAST, speculation @ best... You gents actually believe that court costs become prohibitive @ a certain point for large corporations @ stake of paying royalties indefinatly? No way. There must be something more to it than that...
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
SKiller
Agreed, either way the consumer gets screwed though. If they pay the royalty that gets passed on to us. If they fight the suit, the cost of litigation gets passed on to us. Perhaps if all the companies got together and filed a joint action against Rambus rather than each having to pay for its own litigation, there'd be a monetary benefit to fighting.
Agreed, either way the consumer gets screwed though. If they pay the royalty that gets passed on to us. If they fight the suit, the cost of litigation gets passed on to us. Perhaps if all the companies got together and filed a joint action against Rambus rather than each having to pay for its own litigation, there'd be a monetary benefit to fighting.
Sunny129
Diamond Member
- Nov 14, 2000
- 4,823
- 6
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Oberon, you'd be surprised at what can and cannot be patented. the implementation of and idea as well as the idea itself can be patented. ideas can be patented in the case that the person with the idea doesnt have the financial or technological backing to start work on their idea. that way by the time they are ready to begin work on it, nobody else will have been allowed to work on the same thing and take claim of the idea. now depending on what kind of patent you apply for, each kind of patent only lasts for a certain time period. the patent on say the internal combustion engine lasts only 17 years. at the end of those 17 years, the patent holder or someone else must make improvements to the original design in order to get another patent. i dont believe the patent of and idea lasts nearly as long as a patent on actual working apparatus. go to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office @ www.uspto.gov for more details...
17 years way too long in todays fast moving tech world. forcing a lot of tech companies to reinvent the wheel or pay hefty royalty. but then thats a altogether separate issue.
As I said before, Rambus has patent claims on anything that interfaces with SDRAM(IE: chipsets, any chipset meaning yes video chips as well).
As I said in a previous post yes Rambus is sueing everyone and everything. I knew Nvidia was going to be one of them, soon 3dfx and all the others will be sued as well.
As I said in a previous post yes Rambus is sueing everyone and everything. I knew Nvidia was going to be one of them, soon 3dfx and all the others will be sued as well.
<< Rambus has patent claims on anything that interfaces with SDRAM >>
Fact.
I think their are a lot of people that don't realize that these patents are VALID in the eye's of the courts, jurors, and memory manufacturers. THAT is why, I believe, that Rambus has not been challenged to this point... not because of court costs & lawyer fees...
fkloster the real reason companies are lisencing the Rambus patents are because Rambus threatened that if they win in court then they will not grant the companies the lisences to produce SDR/DDR which is basically the entire memory industry.
I would be scared if I was them as well. Either they pay up a 5% royalty or make no money at all. Get a clue and stop defending a leech company.
I would be scared if I was them as well. Either they pay up a 5% royalty or make no money at all. Get a clue and stop defending a leech company.
If Rambus does hold the rights to SDRAM and DDR what kept them from filing cases like these way back when SDRAM first emerged (circa 1996). If they really were worried about their IP, then they would have filed lawsuits then and all of this would have been a distant memory. This is really just a alot of BS and Rambu$ is just on one of those get rich quick schemes that you see on TV but never really works.
I wouldn't be scared. Hell, I would go to court! (...that is, if I thought that there was possibly a 1% chance that Rambus was wrong) I'm not defending anybody. I just am stating my opinion. And in my opinion, there is a VERY, VERY good chance that Rambus is the Leachee, not the Leacher... BTW Finality, I like your Sig!
BTW Finality, I like your Sig!<< I think there are a lot of people that don't realize that these patents are VALID in the eye's of the courts, jurors, and memory manufacturers. >>
Whether they are valid in the eyes of courts or jurors is not yet decided. That's one of the points of the several lawsuits by Rambus and against Rambus pending in various courts around the world. Memory manufacturers are also undecided, although the majority is slowly siding with the ranks who agree that Rambus's patents are valid.
<< THAT is why, I believe, that Rambus has not been challenged to this point... not because of court costs & lawyer fees... >>
I certainly wouldn't say that Rambus has not been challenged. There are a wide variety of legal fronts that they are being challenged on, primarily by Micron.
Patent cases are a bit of a craps shoot. Neither Rambus nor any other manufacturer really wants to go to court over this. If Rambus's patents are legitimized by the court, then memory manufacturers will be in an even weaker position than they are currently in. If Rambus loses, then Rambus's stock will plummet and they will most likely cease to exist as a company in several years time (they have not made many friends in the industry and no one is likely to support any future technologies from Rambus if the legal threat disappears). This is the reason that it has taken so long for litigation to start - no one really wants to go to court. It really took Micron, who seem to have a personal dislike for Rambus, to really spearhead a counter-effort. In a way Micron is betting the future of their company on the outcome of this case... which is something that no other company had been willing to do.
The real point here is not so much wether or not Rambus holds these patents or not, but why they are choosing now to enforce them. SDRAM has been around a while now with Rambus never saying word one, or taking anyone to court, so sure were they that RDRAM would succeed. Now, RDRAM has been tested time and time again to be very unpopular, and the only way that this company can think to compete is through litigation. Suing the companies using possibly fabricated patents.
And (I'm sorry I don't rememeber who said it) is right when he says that the companies that settled are probably just taking the path of least resistance. They settle to keep it out of court. It's anyone's ballgame once it goes to court, and noone wants it to go there. It would be far too expensive to go through a protracted trial and still in the end maybe lose, have to pay damages and maybe now not be granted a license. It becomes cheaper just to pay the damned license. Doesn't mean Rambus has much to stand on.
I just hope some company has the cahones to take Rambus to trial, and see if they back down or go through with it, and if they go through with it, to really examine these patents once and for all.
And (I'm sorry I don't rememeber who said it) is right when he says that the companies that settled are probably just taking the path of least resistance. They settle to keep it out of court. It's anyone's ballgame once it goes to court, and noone wants it to go there. It would be far too expensive to go through a protracted trial and still in the end maybe lose, have to pay damages and maybe now not be granted a license. It becomes cheaper just to pay the damned license. Doesn't mean Rambus has much to stand on.
I just hope some company has the cahones to take Rambus to trial, and see if they back down or go through with it, and if they go through with it, to really examine these patents once and for all.
In my mind I like to think of Rambus kind of like Hitler, and many other ill-fated warmongers: they fight their battle on too many fronts. One can only hope that if such an analogy is relevant then it would mean Rambus would run out of lawers, money or both and be conquered
Has Rambus ever "won" a case, or has it settled all of them? Perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions that Rambus' patents are valid. If they settled, that means the judge did NOT pass a ruling...
Supposedly, if Rambus has no legitimate claim to these patents, then they would fall on their face anyway! The court cases are settled out of court because Rambus MUST HAVE A STRONG, VERY STRONG arguement. Is Rambus evil? Who cares! Its beatin' to death that issue. Every time Rambus sues somebody about 20 people start calling Rambus evil. This country is based on a Democratic and Capatalistic society. They are suing (sp) memory manufacturers and the memory manufacturers are, for the most part, bowing down. Let me tell you this, Rambus MUST have cards to play to assume this very bold stance. What was the memory standard for PC's back in 1990 when rambus filed its patents? SDRAM?
No, it wasn't SDRAM back in 1990. The first Intel chipset to support SDRAM was the Triton 430VX which was introduced in 1995 (IIRC). This was one of the first computer chipsets to support SDRAM that I can remember.
<< Let me tell you this, Rambus MUST have cards to play to assume this very bold stance. What was the memory standard for PC's back in 1990 when rambus filed its patents? SDRAM? >>
Sorry fkloster, but I have to call you on that one. Simply because they are taking "bold" legal actions does not automatically lend their case credibility. Since you chose a Poker metaphor, I then ask you, ever heard of a bluff?
In the early 90's, Fast Page Mode DRAM was the norm. However, show me proof that Rambus deserves the benefit of the doubt because timing of the patents may be purely circumstantial. Just because they filed patents for SDRAM before it became a standard does not make their patents valid. One has to examine the patent and the case itself, methinks.
What the law says passes and what is RIGHT is not the same thing. That would be the purest brand of optimism...
All good points. If we only knew what the terms were....what dollars were being discussed....that would be cool!
Ok I have to mention this. If they sue Nvidia this means they will have to pay royalties on their chips. M$ wont be happy if they have to pay extra for their chips and their memory/ memory controllers(in the x box). I dont think M$ will let them win. Rambus could charge 75% ryalties if they wanted to and since they would basicaly own the memory industry they could become real powerfull. Think of it as the Microsoft of memory. This would be bad just like having only Nvidia for video cards.
"Let's see, who made a lot of money this year?"
"Uhm, Maytag annually makes a large profit from it's washer/dryers and ovens, chairman"
"Do those products have any sort of memory in them?"
"Uhmm... I believe the oven has 256Kb in it for the clock and electronic menu."
"Can we sue them, then?"
"Well... I suppose that we (sigh) could possibly file against them for using SDRAM, but I don't think we should, chairman. I mean, it's only 256Kb and everything..."
"SILENCE. Quit your slobbering blander and take the rest of the day off. Come back tomorrow with a new attitude. Charlie, get the lawyers on the phone."
"Uhm, Maytag annually makes a large profit from it's washer/dryers and ovens, chairman"
"Do those products have any sort of memory in them?"
"Uhmm... I believe the oven has 256Kb in it for the clock and electronic menu."
"Can we sue them, then?"
"Well... I suppose that we (sigh) could possibly file against them for using SDRAM, but I don't think we should, chairman. I mean, it's only 256Kb and everything..."
"SILENCE. Quit your slobbering blander and take the rest of the day off. Come back tomorrow with a new attitude. Charlie, get the lawyers on the phone."
Your logic is flawed fkloster. The way I see things there is a 50/50 chance either way. Its not worth the risk. These companies spent $2-$4 Billion on a fab plant. Do you really think they are going to risk throwing away that investment for 4-5% of there income?
Its easier to defer those costs over a period vs simply scrapping a few Billion dollar facilities. Regardless of who is right and wrong.
Did you know the Happy Birthday Song is (was?) copy wrighted does that make it right?
Its easier to defer those costs over a period vs simply scrapping a few Billion dollar facilities. Regardless of who is right and wrong.
Did you know the Happy Birthday Song is (was?) copy wrighted does that make it right?
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