without this getting dumb and locked.. wha it ZIONSM in detail

[JEDIYoda]

Zionism = License to Commit War Crimes, without Prosecution.

e.g. this article about Israel spying on the US.

http://www.counterpunch.org/ketcham03122009.html

"Scratch a counterintelligence officer in the U.S. government and they'll tell you that Israel is not a friend to the United States. This is because Israel runs one of the most aggressive and damaging espionage networks targeting the U.S.."

"Other deep cover operations included the penetration of a U.S. company that provided weapons-grade uranium to the Department of Defense during the 1960s; Israeli agents eventually spirited home an estimated 200 pounds of uranium as the bulwark in Israel’s secret nuclear weapons program."

i find the ADL website to be a great source of information. for example, they target Cynthia McKinney and many other Americans, merely for speaking out on behalf of Palestinian civilians.

http://www.adl.org/NR/exeres/85EAE0...1A2-02CD-43AF-8147-649E26813571,frameless.htm

if South Africa had defended their right to Apartheid as vociferously as Israel defends their right to Apartheid, South African Apartheid never would have ended. but we didn't hear any South African politicians whining that anti-apartheid policies were "anti-Caucasian" or "anti-Christian", even though the South African government was caucasian and Christian.

so, among other aspects, Zionism involves using the very old accusation of "anti-Semitism" (in-accurately, since most Israeli Jews are not Semitic in origin) to defend Israel's crimes.

as if being a rabbi gave you a license to deal in stolen body parts.
http://www.theweek.com/article/index/98972/Rabbis_and_organ_trafficking
http://www.theage.com.au/world/orga...ed-over-massive-crime-ring-20090724-dv50.html

of course, being a Zionist doesn't mean that you are Jewish. it means you support the right of Israel to use extra-legal and immoral means to "defend" themselves.

some of the most vociferous Zionists call themselves Christians, e.g. Pastor Bob and his "Prophecy" lectures at this large church in Rancho Santa Fe, one of the wealthiest communities in San Diego.
http://www.horizon.org/
over and over, he tells his flock, "if you want to go to Heaven, you have to support Israel." he also tells whopper-size lies about Palestinians in the Gaza firing 60-100 rockets a day into Israel in December 2008, making him possibly the only news outlet on earth to carry that particular tall tale.

So you pick and choose to make your point which in actuality has nothing more for a basis of fact than your opinion or interpretation of said "articles"........

Israel has never denied spying on us or american companies....we spy on Israel...so whats your point?

The sites you continually choose to quote are hardly shall we say non bias sites.....

but thats Ok...you can go on believing in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and blogs.....

 

[EagleKeeper]

The Muslims despise the relatively secular Jews because they make them look like the backwards primitive barbaric irrational mystical people that they are. Jewish women can have freedom whereas Muslim women are treated like chattel. The Jewish people are great scientists, doctors, and innovators whereas little scientific and medical advance has come from the Muslim world for centuries. It's just an embarrassing contrast.

This is truth. Jews have contributed much to the advancement of society, Unlike Muslims, whos main contribution to the world for the last century has been terrorism. When you think of Islam, what's the first thing to come to your mind? There's no shame in admitting the truth. Everyone knows this.

The Arabic world has contributed greatly to society over the years.
It is only with the rise of Radical Islam over he past century have problems developed there such that they are impacting the rest of the world.
Much has been caused by the disparity of wealth and the actions of the ruling class of the Arabic world and the rest of the population.
A population that is restricted has the seeds to be restless.
Radical leaders have taken advantage of such.
Why the lack of advancement is internal to the Arab/Muslim world and not relevant to this discussion.

To put down the Muslims/Arabs as ignorant is improper - they have delivered much science and knowledge to the world in previous millennium.

 

[theflyingpig]

they have delivered much science and knowledge to the world in previous millennium.

Which only proves my point. They have contributed nothing in the last century but terrorism. Their civilization has not advanced due to their stupidity in clinging to a religion that has no place in the modern world. Other religions have evolved, Islam has not. The truth is right in front of you, all you have to do is choose to see it. Everyone knows this.

 

[Ozoned]

well?

I feel it is the deepest racism possible.. beyond white sheets etc and KKK


IF I am wrong.. my soul (from the same sorry ass creator that created Zionists) would really like to know

SO, what is it.. what is zionism

It is a word that is used in the context of a subject that will be very hard for you to understand while you are drunk.

 

[woolfe9999]

These are 5 books that I have found to be very useful in the study of 20th Century & 21st Century History. All written by Jewish authors.

Mersheimer & Black probably shed the most light on Zionism.


For Those I Loved
by Martin Gray
http://www.amazon.com/Those-I-Loved-.../dp/0451069420
Martin Gray was a young Jewish boy in Poland when the Nazi's walled it off. He started out by bribing Nazi guards and importing tons of food, which also turned out to be a profitable business. He subsequently was sent to Auschwitz, which he survived by hiding in the latrine.


The Transfer Agreement
by Edwin Black
http://www.transferagreement.com/
http://www.amazon.com/Transfer-Agree.../dp/0786708417
"The Transfer Agreement: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine (Paperback)"
Edwin Black has written a well-researched book about the agreement between a group of Zionist Jewish people and Adolf Hitler. The Zionists wanted to kick the Palestinians out of Palestine and claim the land as their own, but in order to do that they needed Jewish immigrants - which Hitler was happy to provide.


The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry
by Walter Sanning
http://www.amazon.com/Dissolution-Ea.../dp/0939484110
Sanning is a Jewish historian who uses census numbers from around the world to establish population numbers for the Jewish people before & after World War 2. He finds that 1.2 million Jewish people perished during the war. He also found a maximum of 3.5 million Jewish people lived in occupied Europe at the beginning of the war (and most of them got out while they could). These numbers are obviously at odds with the official conspiracy theory - that Hitler killed 6 million Jewish people.

Specifically -
the total world population of Jewish people in 1941 - 15,967
the total world population of Jewish people in 1945 - 14,730


The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy (Hardcover)
by Walt Mersheimer
http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Lobby-U.../dp/0374177724
Mersheimer goes into great detail to factually describe what is alluded to in this other article in Ha'aretz, the Israeli newspaper - "Every appointee to the American government must endure a thorough background check by the American Jewish community.

In the case of Obama's government in particular, every criticism against Israel made by a potential government appointee has become a catalyst for debate about whether appointing "another leftist" offers proof that Obama does not truly support Israel."
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1132797.html


Blood Passover
by Ariel Toaff
http://bloodpassover.com/index1.htm
Somehow I managed to get through 12 years of public school and 4 years at a junior university near Palo Alto, which included a full year of "Modern European History", without hearing a single word about the fact that the Jewish people were expelled from 12-15 countries in Europe during the Middle Ages. Toaff's book provides insight into one of the 2 primary reasons - Blood Passover (the other was the practice of usury, loaning money at high interest rates with extreme penalties for non-payment).

about Passover - "The Hebrews were instructed to mark the doorposts of their homes with the blood of a spring lamb and, upon seeing this, the spirit of the Lord passed over these homes, hence the term "passover" "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover

The practice in the Middle Ages was for rabbi's and their followers to sometimes kidnap non-Jewish children, and to extract blood & other body parts for use in the Passover celebration. It was the furor over this practice that led Queen Isabelle of Spain to expel the Jews from Spain, for example.

Toaff describes the facts of these gristly proceedings in meticulous detail and is rather un-impeachable.

about Ariel Toaff - "Ariel Toaff is a professor of Medieval and Renaissance History at Bar Ilan University. He is the son of Elio Toaff, a former Chief Rabbi of Rome."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Toaff

Neither Walt nor Mearsheimer are Jewish.

Walter Sanning is not Jewish. His actual name is Wilhelm Niedereiter. He is ethnic German.

- wolf

 

[wwswimming]

2 good ways to understand Zionism are to consider the way the mainstream media treats the deaths of Rachel Corrie & Neda (the Iranian woman).

also, to look at who makes it onto the ADL's "bad guys" list, and why.

Rachel Corrie is an American who went to the Gaza and documented the destruction of the homes of approximately 300 Palestinian civilians. she was deliberately killed - aka murdered - by a soldier following the orders of the government of Israel. The incident is further described here -
http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/34604046?selectedversion=NBD41032466

The best way to research it is to do a web-search.

Neda, the Iranian woman, needs little mention, since the news story of her death was thoroughly covered by American media. Rachel Corrie, who most Americans haven't heard of, died in obscurity - even though one would think the murder of an American citizen by an ally would cause some serious repercussions. This illustrates one of the primary aspects of Zionism - use of the American media to control the perception of average Americans, a la Brave New World or 1984.

The murder of Rachel Corrie by Israel was physically similar to the killing of a protester by the Chinese protester at Tiananmen square. The Chinese person was run over by a tank; Rachel was run over by a bulldozer as she stood in front of a house to protect it from demolition.

Rachel was protesting the destruction of the homes of 300 Palestinian civilians. the Tiananmen protester & the Iranian protester were protesting the lack of democracy.

The covering of the Neda story & the non-coverage of Rachel's death pertain to a basic fact of American news media - if you want to get ahead, you take a clue and do stories on politically correct subjects. You ignore Rachel's death, you make a big deal about Neda's death.


Part 2 - look at the ADL website
http://www.adl.org/

if you poke around it, you will find that most of the people who the ADL has on their black-list are there because they criticized Israel for their murder of Palestinian civilians in the Gaza and other parts of Israel, and for putting the Palestinians in concentration-camp like conditions.

the ADL insists that they occupy some sort of moral high-ground, proclaiming to fight for civil rights, when in fact one of their primary missions is to talk sh*t about people who speak out about the way they treat the Palestinians. which is similar to the way Adolf Hitler treated the Jews - except for a difference in climate (Germany being colder, Palestine being in the desert without water; the wells were destroyed by - Israel.)

the destruction of 400 villages by Israel in 1948 is further documented at
http://www.palestineremembered.com/


so these 2 aspects - looking at news media treatment of the Neda & Rachel news stories, and looking at how the ADL tries to stifle talk about the human rights of the Palestinians - relate to fundamental aspects of Zionism.


Zionism involves the insistence of Israel that they have the right to treat Palestinians the way Hitler treated them, and the simultaneous attempt to try and control perceptions in the United States, in the news media and also at churches like Horizon in San Diego. the involvement of Christian Zionists is essential to maintaining Zionism as a power force - and so we have Pastor Bob telling San Diegan's that if they want to go to Heaven, they have to support Israel.

then when those same San Diegans read the San Diego Tribune or the San Marcos paper, they hear all about Neda and nothing about Rachel.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Well zionist fundamentally means restoration of the land . True . It also Means restoration of the Temple . The 3rd Temple. Problems is there is already a building on that site. Troubling times are coming . Funny part is this . With all their BS religious beliefs and worship of Idols and building not one of the worlds believers can do what I can , and I worship none of these. I put my faith in God and the Living Word which resides in the Temple of My soul(body). You know that Big Black rock. . We shall see it crumbled very soon . All done with the simple clap of hands. and the world will wonder . Its amazing to my self how so many limit their abilities because of the lack of true faith and understanding.

 

[wwswimming]

The sites you continually choose to quote are hardly shall we say non bias sites.....

true. a majority of the sources i reference are Jewish people, Jewish journalists, and Jewish historians.

 

[Aegeon]

true. a majority of the sources i reference are Jewish people, Jewish journalists, and Jewish historians.

They often are not, but furthermore you're making clearly wildly misleading claims about the nature of the links in many cases where the links are not clearly biased.

For instance on the Wikipedia blood libel claim by the individual who happened to be Israeli, based on the link it appears at best he was naive enough to take confessions under torture always at face value as his evidence, and really didn't have anything else supporting his argument. (I.E. he couldn't think why someone might eventually get creative and tell the torturers simply what they clear want to hear to get that person taken off the rack even its its completely false.) After criticism of his methodology he basically entirely withdrew his blood libel claim in a new edition where he merely noted the possibility that a few Jewish extremists who resented the oppression of the Europeans might have possibly at one time or so fought back by killing someone. (In other words essentially complete speculation with no evidence.)

 

[wwswimming]

one of the primary aspects of Zionism is the use of accusations of anti-Semitism and the term "anti-Semitic conspiracy theory" in an attempt to discredit people who merely study history, and are able to provide abundant solid referece sources.

oddly, most of the people who criticize Israel for killing and injuring Muslims & Palestinians haven't killed any Jews. in fact, most Jews are not Semitic. then people who are Semitic are the Palestinians, whom Israel has been killing and destroying their homes since 1935.

so, in term of genuine racism and anti-Semitism - the kind that kills hundreds of thousands of civilians - it is Israel who is primarily guilty of racism and anti-Semitism.

for that is one of the central methods of perception management used by the Zionists -

to try and make critics of Israel appear racist by using terms like "anti-Zionist", when in fact it is Israel that is racist.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Thats a pretty narrow minded view . They do deserve a homeland . In that part of the world. Afganastab would have been the best choice . Kill to birds with one stone . I am sure israel could have cleared that shit hole up Fast

 

[SamurAchzar]

To understand Zionism, you have to understand Judaism first. Judaism is not a religion or a race or an ethnicity or a nationality - it's a bit of all.

Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism as a religion. Many - if not most - of the orthodox Jews (Hassidim) are anti-Zionist, claiming founding a Jewish state before the arrival of the Messiah and the following salvation is blasphemous. Most vocal of this group is Naturi Karta - those Jews who went to kiss and hug Ahmadinejad.

The founding fathers of Zionism, as well as the state of Israel, were either right wing or left wing seculars, bordering on Atheism.

Zionism was started due to rising prosecution of Jews, mostly in Eastern Europe. Jews, at this point, believed that Judaism should, uniquely, have a national home, thus turning it into a nationality as well.

Whether Zionism is racist or not is very much up to your definition of racism. Israel, as a Zionist state, brought Jews from all around the world, from Russia and the West, all the way to Africa, where it taken whole Jewish tribes - people who did not have running water before - and brought them to Israel. There is no discrimination of color or place of birth, the only criteria is whether you are Jewish or not. So I wouldn't say that constitutes classic racism by any means, but it is discriminatory. In fact, in terms of ethnic diversity, I don't think there is any country like Israel (also in high percentages of Muslims - but that's another story altogether).

Zionism might seem elitist and unjust in light of an ideal democracy, but it's always important to remember the context under which it was formed in the first place - make sure Jews have a country of their own, where a 2nd holocaust can't take place.

This is why depicting Israel as a religious entity fighting Arabs from religious motives is silly and laughable - there hasn't been a religious Israeli prime minister, or president, or minister of defense... None of these. Zionism is secular. Zionism is about the protection of the Jewish people, and not the persecution of others.

 

[Aegeon]

oddly, most of the people who criticize Israel for killing and injuring Muslims & Palestinians haven't killed any Jews. in fact, most Jews are not Semitic. then people who are Semitic are the Palestinians, whom Israel has been killing and destroying their homes since 1935.

so, in term of genuine racism and anti-Semitism - the kind that kills hundreds of thousands of civilians - it is Israel who is primarily guilty of racism and anti-Semitism.

This verbal semantics game is actually another pretty classic modern tactic of anti-Semites.

The primary ordinarily used definition of anti-Semitism refers EXPLICITLY just to Jews. The origin of the word anti-semitism actually was one in which those who were anti-Jewish actually used the word to describe themselves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism#Evolution_of_usage_as_a_term

It was actually seen in many circles as a positive thing to be antisemitic when the term originally came into use. Everyone hearing the term absolutely understood that it was being explicitly used to describe Jews in general, and certainly not only some Jews of certain ethnic backgrounds or anyone who was not Jewish. (The only exception in some circles might have been someone who personally converted to Judaism, which basically just about never happened during the period in question so it really wasn't a detail considered much. However many antisemites even during the period would have specified such a convert was at least as bad as those born Jewish.)

In other words, actually using the phrase to refer to those of semetic races in general is in reality an incredibly rare thing under ordinary circumstances, which in practice happens extremely rarely among those who fully understand the definition because of the obvious confusion with the vastly more prevalent use of the word.

When people start trying to divert the discussion onto this subject, its ordinarily because they realize they are in trouble if people continue to focus on some of the things they have claimed and/or linked to.

 

[brandonb]

Zionism might seem elitist and unjust in light of an ideal democracy, but it's always important to remember the context under which it was formed in the first place - make sure Jews have a country of their own, where a 2nd holocaust can't take place.

Odd, since Zionism started long before the Hitler era. I thought Zionism was one of the main reasons for Hitlers Antisemitism?

 

[woolfe9999]

Odd, since Zionism started long before the Hitler era. I thought Zionism was one of the main reasons for Hitlers Antisemitism?

Yes, Zionism started in the late 19th century, but that doesn't really alter his point. It really started in Russia, in response to the pogroms of the 19th century which claimed over a million Jewish lives. So the point remains, that Zionism was originally posed as the creation of a safe haven for Jews. Zionism, predictably, became more popular as a result of the Nazi Holocaust. It was relatively unpopular among European Jews prior to that.

And no, Zionism had virtually nothing to do with Hitler's anti-semitism.

- wolf

 

[Zebo]

Yes, Zionism started in the late 19th century, but that doesn't really alter his point. It really started in Russia, in response to the pogroms of the 19th century which claimed over a million Jewish lives. So the point remains, that Zionism was originally posed as the creation of a safe haven for Jews. Zionism, predictably, became more popular as a result of the Nazi Holocaust. It was relatively unpopular among European Jews prior to that.

And no, Zionism had virtually nothing to do with Hitler's anti-semitism.

- wolf

No it started after the massacre at Medina by Mohammed and his followers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

And continued from there. Jews have never found a comfortable home except USA for last 35 or so odd years.

 

[woolfe9999]

No it started after the massacre at Medina by Mohammed and his followers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

And continued from there. Jews have never found a comfortable home except USA for last 35 or so odd years.

While the notion to establish and/or return to a homeland has been around for a couple thousand years in Judaism, as a modern, organized political movement, it came about in late 19th century Russia.

- wolf