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Without the concept of Hell, Christianity falls apart

M

micrometers

Diamond Member
Compared to Judaism and Islam, Christianity is highly messianic. Now, a messiah is only necessary to save you from something, and that something according to fundamentalist christians is hell.

Without hell, there is no consequence for sin

without consequence for sin there is not need for salvation

without need for salvation there is no need for a messiah (jesus).

Apparently the concept of a real physical hell only came about in the New Testament. Judaism doesn't seem to have such a preoccupation with the afterlife.


Moving thread from P&N to OT with OP's permission.

Administrator Idontcare
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What is the point of your post OP. Does someone disagree with this? Or are you just hoping someone will?
 
The key to your post is that you referred to "fundamentalists." The core theme of the teachings of Christ is emphasis on the spiritual over the material. This is what fundamentalists miss when they interpret all biblical references literally and they fail to grasp the real meanings behind Christ's teaching. When we see that the Kingdom of Heaven is more of a state of mind that can be reached through spiritual development rather then an End that can only be attained after death, then Hell as an after-life punishment loses its potency.

Christianity as a guide toward spiritual development would work just fine without the concept of Hell.
 
Icepick said:
The key to your post is that you referred to "fundamentalists." The core theme of the teachings of Christ is emphasis on the spiritual over the material. This is what fundamentalists miss when they interpret all biblical references literally and they fail to grasp the real meanings behind Christ's teaching. When we see that the Kingdom of Heaven is more of a state of mind that can be reached through spiritual development rather then an End that can only be attained after death, then Hell as an after-life punishment loses its potency.

Christianity as a guide toward spiritual development would work just fine without the concept of Hell.
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Frankly, that sounds more like Buddhism. Fundamentalists do have a point I think in that there do have to be clear lines and definitions. Yes, it is possible to view Jesus as an exemplary man who is worth study and emulation. That is how the Muslims treat him. But to be a Christian is to accept his divinity and the importance of his sacrifice I think. Otherwise he is just another person on par with say, Plato. And all of that...requires hell. Without hell, the gravity of Jesus's sacrifice is meaningless.
 
karmypolitics said:
Compared to Judaism and Islam, Christianity is highly messianic. Now, a messiah is only necessary to save you from something, and that something according to fundamentalist christians is hell.

Without hell, there is no consequence for sin

without consequence for sin there is not need for salvation

without need for salvation there is no need for a messiah (jesus).

Apparently the concept of a real physical hell only came about in the New Testament. Judaism doesn't seem to have such a preoccupation with the afterlife.
Click to expand...

I think you're overlooking something.

You don't need a hell, you need only the choice between life or death. If religion offers you an everlasting life that seems sufficiently compelling without any concept of hell.

Fern
 
So, how is that new sub forum for religious topics coming along? The founding fathers saw fit to separate politics from religion, so should we. :colbert:
 
karmypolitics said:
Compared to Judaism and Islam, Christianity is highly messianic. Now, a messiah is only necessary to save you from something, and that something according to fundamentalist christians is hell.

Without hell, there is no consequence for sin

without consequence for sin there is not need for salvation

without need for salvation there is no need for a messiah (jesus).

Apparently the concept of a real physical hell only came about in the New Testament. Judaism doesn't seem to have such a preoccupation with the afterlife.
Click to expand...
Not true. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol
 
karmypolitics said:
Compared to Judaism and Islam, Christianity is highly messianic. Now, a messiah is only necessary to save you from something, and that something according to fundamentalist christians is hell.

Without hell, there is no consequence for sin

without consequence for sin there is not need for salvation

without need for salvation there is no need for a messiah (jesus).

Apparently the concept of a real physical hell only came about in the New Testament. Judaism doesn't seem to have such a preoccupation with the afterlife.
Click to expand...

Not really, even if hell were not a physical place or even mentioned the whole point of our salvation is to bring us back in union with God and save us from being eternally separated from him. Don't mix up the theology among the different Christian sects. They are not all the same.

and here's a couple OT references to hell:

Isaiah 33:14
The sinners in Sion are afraid, trembling hath seized upon the hypocrites. Which of you can dwell with devouring fire? which of you shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

Isaiah 66:24
And they shall go out, and see the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: their worm shah not die, and their fire shall not be quenched: and they shall be a loathsome sight to all flesh.
 
Jesus/God had himself sacrificed (to himself/God) to save us from Hell (that he/God created) where we (were created by him/God in a way that makes us sin) end up if we sin (something he/God made up) enough and don't get saved or forgiven by him/God.

😵
 
Londo_Jowo said:
Looks like yet another religion flamebaiting thread. Should be closed.
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Hey look londo the retard is going to crap in every thread he thinks is flamebait.

And to the op, you got it all wrong. Christianity is the first religion to truly introduce forgiveness for sin. This is actually a trick of the devil because it allows for more sin to happen on the planet. All Christians have been hoodwinked by the devil to sin more and just expect to be forgiven sometime later. Pretty ingenious work by the devil.

golf clap.
 
Well the devil has tricked more then 75% of the country into sinning more. I would call this alarming and a important issue. Only atheist and humanists are free from this revolving sin of the evil devil worshiping Christians.
 
JSt0rm said:
Hey look londo the retard is going to crap in every thread he thinks is flamebait.

And to the op, you got it all wrong. Christianity is the first religion to truly introduce forgiveness for sin. This is actually a trick of the devil because it allows for more sin to happen on the planet. All Christians have been hoodwinked by the devil to sin more and just expect to be forgiven sometime later. Pretty ingenious work by the devil.

golf clap.
Click to expand...

Actually, God forgave the sins of the Israelites many times in the OT.
 
hal2kilo said:
My experience was that all of the fire and brimstone stuff came from the old testiment.

The New testiment is about good news. I.e. Gospel.
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fire and brimstone stuff is reality of bronze age life.

the good news requires you to be in a bad place to begin with. I do view Christianity as forcing a view of a bad place on people.

Judaism is about just being I take it.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
Perhaps not as much...not sure why you would perceive this as an issue.

You seem to have a preoccupation with religion lately. What gives?
Click to expand...

As the OP says, Christianity requires hell. Just like how Batman needs the joker, for Jesus to be divine he needs Satan.

There is no Jesus figure in Judaism or Islam. They are preoccupied with God himself who created nature.

It's just what I've been interested in lately. I read Karen Armstrong's A history of god lately after watching this guy's videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSy1...xt=C3174515FDOEgsToPDskK9k7tvwIDTUqfrlvu_y-d0
 
karmypolitics said:
As the OP says, Christianity requires hell. Just like how Batman needs the joker, for Jesus to be divine he needs Satan.

There is no Jesus figure in Judaism or Islam. They are preoccupied with God himself who created nature.

It's just what I've been interested in lately. I read Karen Armstrong's A history of god lately after watching this guy's videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSy1...xt=C3174515FDOEgsToPDskK9k7tvwIDTUqfrlvu_y-d0
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand the core foundation of Christion belief. And that is that you can be forgiven of your sins if you change your life.

Just for the record. I was raised as a Christian. Have been quite atheistic, but now just believe in a higher power.
 
hal2kilo said:
I don't think you understand the core foundation of Christion belief. And that is that you can be forgiven of your sins if you change your life.

Just for the record. I was raised as a Christian. Have been quite atheistic, but now just believe in a higher power.
Click to expand...

Why should you care about forgiveness for sins? Why the huge emphasis on salvation and forgiveness? Because without it, there is consequence, which is hell.
 
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