With $15/hr min in CA, #NoMoreTipping movement has solid footing?

[Zaap]

So why are wait staff jobs special in a way where they should be paid in tips while doctors shouldn't? If anything you would think that ensuring your doctor was doing a good job would be far more important.

Tipping for restaurant service and not for other occupations is illogical. It should be stopped because it's dumb, not for any other reason.

LOL leave it to the KING of illogical spin to run with the absolute DUMBEST example.

Yeah,being a doctor is a service industry job. All those kids working their way through college doctoring between classes.

Single moms putting in a few doctor shifts before picking up the kids.

LOL! relax, if ever there was an absolute poster child for "its always up to someone else!!! Force someone else to do it!!!" Of course it would be you!

 

[Ns1]

Wait staff will still have a lower "minimum" and then counts tips toward the $15 and employers will still likely have to kick in extra if the total is less than $15.

in NY, yes. In CA, no.

 

[Ns1]

LOL! relax, if ever there was an absolute poster child for "its always up to someone else!!! Force someone else to do it!!!" Of course it would be you!

that's exactly what the restaurant owner is doing by asking for tips in lieu of reasonable compensation model. We don't put up with that shit in any other industry, we shouldn't have to put up with it in the restaurant industry.

 

[Fern]

in NY, yes. In CA, no.

Really?

That's interesting, if not stupid.

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

LOL leave it to the KING of illogical spin to run with the absolute DUMBEST example.

Yeah,being a doctor is a service industry job. All those kids working their way through college doctoring between classes.

Single moms putting in a few doctor shifts before picking up the kids.

LOL! relax, if ever there was an absolute poster child for "its always up to someone else!!! Force someone else to do it!!!" Of course it would be you!

Who cares what the job is? If tipping leads to better performance we should do it everywhere. The doctor is providing an individualized service to you.

So does tipping lead to better performance or not? If it does, let's use it everywhere. If it doesn't, lets eliminate it because it's a waste of time. How is this complicated?

As someone else mentioned, tipping is the epitome of leaving it up to someone else. Restaurant owners are depending on customers and cultural norms to make up for their poor pay.

 

[Ns1]

Really?

That's interesting, if not stupid.

Fern

yup, so in NY the onus for paying a reasonable wage is STILL on the consumer unless everyone agrees to mutiny and stop tipping or restaurants move to a service included model.

 

[openwheel]

I love how cheap bastards end up with extreme arguments as if they live in a socialist Utopia.

 

[Zaap]

Who cares what the job is? If tipping leads to better performance we should do it everywhere. The doctor is providing an individualized service to you.

So does tipping lead to better performance or not? If it does, let's use it everywhere. If it doesn't, lets eliminate it because it's a waste of time. How is this complicated?

As someone else mentioned, tipping is the epitome of leaving it up to someone else. Restaurant owners are depending on customers and cultural norms to make up for their poor pay.

I dont give a shit about "better performance". That's some stupid shit you latched onto and in typical leftist "purposefully misunderstand in order to score dumb points" fashion ran with and now are trying to spin in some stupid way.


"Why should someone in a higher paying job get profit sharing? Why should someone else get tips?? Why should someone else get stock options? Why should someone else get a sales commission??!!!! Why should someone else be made a partner in the firm?? Why should someone else get a bonus..??!!"

Because,child. Different occupations have different pay/reward models. Many service jobs are direct from the customer. Deal with it.

 

[fskimospy]

I dont give a shit about "better performance". That's some stupid shit you latched onto and in typical leftist "purposefully misunderstand in order to score dumb points" fashion ran with.

If we aren't tipping for better service then why are we tipping?

 

[Ns1]

I dont give a shit about "better performance". That's some stupid shit you latched onto and in typical leftist "purposefully misunderstand in order to score dumb points" fashion ran with.

Actually, people latch onto it because it's a common argument made by people who want tipping.

ex: reply #118

If you want your staff that serves you to be pleasant then you have do to more than tell them to be. Tipping those who make the experience more enjoyable should be incentivized to promote that behavior. Those who are not should not be incentivized. You do this through tips. Tips are the market signal that you are doing something that people like.

 

[stlc8tr]

Really?

That's interesting, if not stupid.

Fern

As mentioned earlier, this varies by state. There are eight states that do not allow the use of a tip credit.

Here's a full breakdown.

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

 

[openwheel]

If we aren't tipping for better service then why are we tipping?

You are tipping because that's the model of the restaurant industry. The menu price is relatively lower because restaurant owners don't have to pay the wait staff $30/hour with benefit. The wait staff rely on tips for a decent pay while providing a comfortable, speedy and friendly service. You as the customer has the option to tip $0.01 as an insult, or $100 as a token of gratitude for extra attentive service.

The model works well here. Capitalism is in our blood. If you are too cheap to be a consumer in our system, then by all means stay with Panda Express, don't step foot into Panda Inn.

 

[Zaap]

Actually, people latch onto it because it's a common argument made by people who want tipping.

ex: reply #118

Its not my argument. Having waited tables, a bunch of morons trying to end tipping would have taken a SHITLOAD of money out of my pocket.

There's no way any employer would have paid me or anyone else I knew waiting tables anything remotely close to what I could pull down on my own in tips. No way in hell.

Would have just turned it into just another shitty job. But at least in another thread the same types could then whine about "where'd all the good jobs go??? Wwwwwaahhh!someone else do something!"

 

[fskimospy]

You are tipping because that's the model of the restaurant industry. The menu price is relatively lower because restaurant owners don't have to pay the wait staff $30/hour with benefit. The wait staff rely on tips for a decent pay while providing a comfortable, speedy and friendly service. You as the customer has the option to tip $0.01 as an insult, or $100 as a token of gratitude for extra attentive service.

The model works well here. Capitalism is in our blood. If you are too cheap to be a consumer in our system, then by all means stay with Panda Express, don't step foot into Panda Inn.

Why does the model work well? What output are we getting that is desirable as compared to a fixed wage where the total cost to the average consumer is the same? Better performance? What?

 

[Ns1]

You are tipping because that's the model of the restaurant industry. The menu price is relatively lower because restaurant owners don't have to pay the wait staff $30/hour with benefit. The wait staff rely on tips for a decent pay while providing a comfortable, speedy and friendly service. You as the customer has the option to tip $0.01 as an insult, or $100 as a token of gratitude for extra attentive service.

The model works well here.

No, it doesn't, and it will change slowly. You should read that article that you posted a few times to understand why that model doesn't work here. I'll just c/p the nutshot.

MEYER: I also think it’s really important to understand that while it’s wonderful that if you order a $100 bottle of wine and you’re a 20-percent tipper, the waiter’s going to make $20 for your pulling the same cork as the guy at the next table only bought a $40 bottle of wine and his server gets $8 for that. What about the cook in the kitchen that makes the exact same dollars whether we served 300 people tonight or 200 people tonight? Whether he shaved white truffles over your pasta or parmigiano over your pasta? There’s just something that’s not right.

 

[Zaap]

You as the customer has the option to tip $0.01 as an insult, or $100 as a token of gratitude for extra attentive service.

Exactly.

Picture a large table in a good restaurant. 15 people or so.

I'm gonna bust my ass waiting on them for an hour for a tip of 80, 90, $100 or more depending on the bill...

...or for $15 fucking bucks.

It's not even laughable.


Anti-tip idiots have just simply never had such a job to know how fucked the 2nd situation would be compared to the first.

"B-but!! It's fair to the shlub who would never have done a good enough job to pull $100 off a big table! Or similar busting your ass between 4 tables. He's happy with the $15! Everyone should be!"

 

[Ns1]

Anti-tip idiots have just simply never had such a job to know how fucked the 2nd situation would be compared to the first.

You're right, the situation is fucked. That's why the server should be paid a reasonable wage, along with BOH staff, with no tipping required.

 

[fskimospy]

Exactly.

Picture a large table in a good restaurant. 15 people or so.

I'm gonna bust my ass waiting on them for an hour for a tip of 80, 90, $100 or more depending on the bill...

...or for $15 fucking bucks.

It's not even laughable.


Anti-tip idiots have just simply never had such a job to know how fucked the 2nd situation would be compared to the first.

"B-but!! It's fair to the shlub who would never have done a good enough job to pull $100 off a big table! Or similar busting your ass between 4 tables. He's happy with the $15! Everyone should be!"

A tip based model doesn't pay based on how much work you do, it pays based on the cost of what is ordered. If you serve 10 people who get a $10 dish or one person who orders a $100 bottle of wine your pay is identical.

Most jobs pay the same regardless of the amount of work you have to do on a given day. What is the advantage to paying servers differently? I keep asking this but nobody seem to be able to answer.

 

[Zaap]

You're right, the situation is fucked. That's why the server should be paid a reasonable wage, along with BOH staff, with no tipping required.

The situation isn't fucked. It's common.

If people only went out to eat 1 at a time always, then $15 an hour might be fine.

But a set wage paying the person the same to wait on 1 person in an hour vs. the person waiting on 15 people making the same? Fuck that.

The restaurant owner isn't going to make up the difference. That's a stupid fantasy you know isnt even logical.

 

[Ns1]

What is the advantage to paying servers differently?

Servers can afford pay for vacations to the alps in cash. #serverlife

 

[Ns1]

But a set wage paying the person the same to wait on 1 person in an hour vs. the person waiting on 15 people making the same? Fuck that.

You mean like every other job out there? Sometimes you're busy, sometimes you're not.

also:

A tip based model doesn't pay based on how much work you do, it pays based on the cost of what is ordered. If you serve 10 people who get a $10 dish or one person who orders a $100 bottle of wine your pay is identical.

 

[fskimospy]

You mean like every other job out there? Sometimes you're busy, sometimes you're not.

also:

But restaurant jobs are magically special in a way that no one can define. Therefore we should pay them according to a different model that has clear efficiency costs but also has benefits that can also apparently not be defined.

And remember, apparently WE are the idiots, haha.

 

[Zaap]

A tip based model doesn't pay based on how much work you do, it pays based on the cost of what is ordered. If you serve 10 people who get a $10 dish or one person who orders a $100 bottle of wine your pay is identical.

LOL! Again absolute stupidity that shows you've never done a second of that type of work.

In the real world -waiting tables certainly -the cost of what's ordered is almost always going to be DIRECTLY related to the amount of work done.

$1000 worth of food is virtually always going to entail a shitload more work than $100 worth.

It hardly ever comes down to someone coming in ordering a $100 bottle of wine to drink by themselves vs. say a table of 5 eating $100 worth of food that's a shitload more work.

 

[fskimospy]

LOL! Again absolute stupidity that shows you've never done a second of that type of work.

In the real world -waiting tables certainly -the cost of what's ordered is almost always going to be DIRECTLY related to the amount of work done.

$1000 worth of food is virtually always going to entail a shitload more work than $100 worth.

It hardly ever comes down to someone coming in ordering a $100 bottle of wine to drink by themselves vs. say a table of 5 eating $100 worth of food that's a shitload more work.

Really? So if someone orders a $50 steak you're doing twice as much work as if they order a $25 pasta dish? Can you explain?

Regardless, you keep saying that people at restaurants should be paid proportionately to how much work they are doing at any given time. Most other jobs don't function this way so why are restaurants special? If this is a superior way to do things then why don't we apply it to lots of other businesses?

This should be an easy question to answer.

 

[Ns1]

LOL! Again absolute stupidity that shows you've never done a second of that type of work.

In the real world -waiting tables certainly -the cost of what's ordered is almost always going to be DIRECTLY related to the amount of work done.

I'll just c/p Danny Meyer's comments again, and bold the part I believe us "anti-tippers" can agree on:

MEYER: I also think it’s really important to understand that while it’s wonderful that if you order a $100 bottle of wine and you’re a 20-percent tipper, the waiter’s going to make $20 for your pulling the same cork as the guy at the next table only bought a $40 bottle of wine and his server gets $8 for that. What about the cook in the kitchen that makes the exact same dollars whether we served 300 people tonight or 200 people tonight? Whether he shaved white truffles over your pasta or parmigiano over your pasta? There’s just something that’s not right.