Wisconsin Senate Passes Union Reform Legislation

[K1052]

The reason the Republicans didn't do this earlier is that it's an inherently risky move. Sure they can pass the legislation but if the tide of public opinion were to turn even slightly against them the Republicans in the legislature facing recalls could be in serious jeopardy and tip the senate to the Democrats.

 

[wirednuts]

Nope, you are ignorant of the rules. It was completely legal.

the rules state that in fiscal issues decisions must be made with a full quorum. thats why the stripped the fiscal issues out of it and voted. which goes back to my first point. they admitted this is union busting and NOTHING else.

 

[matt0611]

the rules state that in fiscal issues decisions must be made with a full quorum. thats why the stripped the fiscal issues out of it and voted. which goes back to my first point. they admitted this is union busting and NOTHING else.

Lol. Fail. 😀
You still don't get it.

 

[wirednuts]

The reason the Republicans didn't do this earlier is that it's an inherently risky move. Sure they can pass the legislation but if the tide of public opinion were to turn even slightly against them the Republicans in the legislature facing recalls could be in serious jeopardy and tip the senate to the Democrats.

the reason they didnt do this earlier is because it is against the law. they didnt even show the people what they were voting on. they completely took a shit all over democracy. this will be overturned in court.

 

[mrjminer]

You must not be reading my posts, you didn't read up on the central limit theorem (as your complaints are directly addressed by it), and you appear to have no knowledge of statistics. Do you know what it means when the poll says +/- 4% at the 95% confidence level? Do you know what confidence level a 13 point gap corresponds to?

You absolutely don't need to believe that people aren't individuals to believe that polls are accurate, true representations of public opinion. Let me give you some tips for discrediting polls, you're going to want to look at the sample and declare it biased, or you're going to want to attack question ordering, things like that. Attacking the mathematical basis for scientific polling is a bad idea, because it is mathematically proven. ie: it's not open for debate.

You're going to strike out when attacking this poll in those other ways too, but it might be helpful in the future if you see other inconvenient truths that you're trying to ignore.

Prove to me, then, oh proveyer of things mathematically proven, that these polls are correct 100% of the time. Until then, I'm done wasting my time with you.

 

[trenchfoot]

You seem to forget the underlying problems with a lot of polling. It's all predicated on the idea that you can get a really representative random sample of the population to be studied. That's the trick. I tend to believe the major polling companies because they have a track record of being at least somewhat competent, so I don't dispute the validity of this polling data.

I do have an issue with polling likely voters versus everyone in general. It might be more valid in terms of using it to predict elections and such, it doesn't say anything about the sentiment of the population as a whole. Likely voters might be 100% for something, but if they only comprise 40% of the total population, there's the possibility that the majority of people in general are against something.

I don't think that's the case in WI though, the unions have done a good job selling their absurd notions and the right to fleece people. Now it's up to the GOP to bring logic back into the picture.

In all contract talks with unions, both sides commit to "bargaining in good faith". Both sides.

In WI as in all others, "The State", ie -"the people" bargained in good faith, as well as the public unions. If both bargained "in good faith", how is that construed as "fleecing the people"?

The people was/are represented by the state. The state bargained with the unions. If you feel the people were fleeced, you need to blame the state and not the unions for not bargaining what you thought was a good deal.

I don't follow the logic where the union bargaining committee/membership is at fault for doing their job, and the sate is the victim simply because they did not do theirs.

Both bargained "in good faith". Each side had a chance to represent each side's interests at the bargaining table. Each side then agreed - repeat - EACH SIDE then agreed to the terms worked out in the negotiations. How is that not fair? How is it that both sides agreed to terms yet somehow the unions fleeced the state - ie "the people"?

 

[wirednuts]

Lol. Fail. 😀

have anything to add or you just going to keep posting like an idiot?

 

[OrByte]

Allow me to introduce you to the central limit theorem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_limit_theorem

Like I said, if you don't consider this valid, you don't agree with math. (probably shouldn't be using your devil powered computer then either, it uses a lot of math)

HA

thanks for the early morning chuckle!

This is a national strategy employed by the GOP. Their true colors came shining through last night. I feel sorry for the people of Wisconsin, they got duped.

It is retaliation for Health Care reform, it is overreach, and it will be ugly.

No matter how much the right spins this, it is an attack on the middle class. Pure and simple.

 

[K1052]

the reason they didnt do this earlier is because it is against the law. they didnt even show the people what they were voting on. they completely took a shit all over democracy. this will be overturned in court.

I think the options in court will be rather limited. The legislation was passed within the rules of the state.

The Republicans have however thrown themselves naked into the court of public opinion which, if the Democrats exploit it well, could be far more damaging.

 

[matt0611]

have anything to add or you just going to keep posting like an idiot?

The rules of the state's Senate require a quorum for any measures that spend money. This spends no money. Its not complicated.

 

[Genx87]

the reason they didnt do this earlier is because it is against the law. they didnt even show the people what they were voting on. they completely took a shit all over democracy. this will be overturned in court.

What about Obamacare? You know the bill Pelosi admitted nobody knew what was in it and it needed to be passed before we can figure it out?

 

[wirednuts]

In all contract talks with unions, both sides commit to "bargaining in good faith". Both sides.

In this particular case, "The State", ie -"the people" bargained in good faith, as well as the public unions. If both bargained "in good faith", how is that construed as "fleecing the people"?

The people was/are represented by the state. The state bargained with the unions. If you feel the people were fleeced, you need to blame the state and not the unions for not bargaining what you thought was a good deal.

I don't follow the logic where the union bargaining committee/membership is at fault for doing their job, and the sate is the victim simply because they did not do theirs.

Both bargained "in good faith". Each side had a chance to represent each side's interests at the bargaining table. Each side then agreed - repeat - EACH SIDE then agreed to the terms worked out in the negotiations. How is that not fair? How is it that both sides agreed to terms yet somehow the unions fleeced the state - ie "the people"?

well said. fleecing the people means protecting them from corporate abuse apparently....

 

[jonks]

Simply the fact that they tend to be accurate is of no consequence, because there is no guarantee they will be for any given poll.

Exactly, just because polling works isn't evidence that it works.

Oh man, this guy is killing me. lol. please keep going.

mrjminer vs math

538.com's analysis of 2008 general election polling led to about a .1 deviation from the actual result and I think nailed every congressional and senate race, might have missed one or two which were within the margin. Guess Nate Silver is just a lucky guesser eh?

Prove to me, then, oh proveyer of things mathematically proven, that these polls are correct 100% of the time.

It's not possible to prove that the Yankees would beat a little league team of 11 year olds every single time they played, but I know where I'm putting my money. When you start your car there isn't a 100% chance that the engine won't explode. How do you take that crazy risk? I like your theory though, if something is almost always right, assign it zero weight because it's not right every single time. How about you maybe act reasonably and assign it a good deal of weight while recognizing it falls somewhere short of 100% accuracy? I mean, ya gotta get to work dont ya?

 

[Macamus Prime]

Excellent!

Now, how soon can we go back to hiring children and making them work for 14 hours a day, 6 days a week; all for $1 a day?

 

[wirednuts]

What about Obamacare? You know the bill Pelosi admitted nobody knew what was in it and it needed to be passed before we can figure it out?

no shit. first of all, if 'obamacare' was actually what obama wanted, i would have been all for it. it got turned into what big business wanted. so its not obamacare anymore, its a classic american handjob.

 

[OrByte]

Prove to me, then, oh proveyer of things mathematically proven, that these polls are correct 100% of the time. Until then, I'm done wasting my time with you.

you are making a fool of yourself...

...in record time too if I might add. 🙂

 

[wirednuts]

Excellent!

Now, how soon can we go back to hiring children and making them work for 14 hours a day, 6 days a week; all for $1 a day?

it absolutely shocks me how people who work for a living dont want an 8 hour day with honest pay. well, they do, but they are told they dont and they believe it. the blind faith is just horrific.

 

[boomerang]

Half of Capitol Controlled by Protesters, 'No One Is Safe,' National Guard Option 'On the Table'

Don't know long this article will be up. It sounds as though violence in imminent.

A highly connected source in Wisconsin politics tells Fox Nation all hell is breaking loose at the state capitol.

“Republican leadership was considering calling in SWAT teams or the National Guard. Plans have been set. We have almost completely lost control of the capitol building. Protesters now control the first and second floors and are amassing outside the governor’s office. The third and fourth floors are under control but we’re not sure what side our security is on. Law enforcement is leaking evacuation plans to the protesters. An official tried to evacuate through a secret underground tunnel and was turned back by protesters. No one is safe. Protesters have broken down doors, broken windows, Democrats are helping them into the building and they’re building momentum. They’re robo-calling like crazy, trying to pack as many people into the capitol so the Assembly can’t vote today. Right now there’s no way the Assembly can vote…we can’t secure the Assembly and we can’t protect our legislators. If the protesters fill up the capitol all the way, the governor would have to declare a state of emergency and hold a vote off site.”

 

[jonks]

you are making a fool of yourself...

...in record time too if I might add. 🙂

Hey, he's been a member 6 years. I think I made a fool of myself a lot sooner when I first joined.

 

[wirednuts]

walkers actions is ruining madison and the whole country is getting pissed off too. these protests have risen everywhere now. the majority of americans are frustrated passed the point of sanity, and they should be. this is our constitution WORKING.

 

[mrjminer]

you are making a fool of yourself...

...in record time too if I might add. 🙂

That's weird, I was thinking the same thing about everyone binding their reputation to others' predictions 😱

 

[Genx87]

I am curious why nobody brings up the Dem fleeing the state having their jobs in jeopardy. The fled the state and didnt even fight the good fight allowing this to happen.

 

[Naeeldar]

it absolutely shocks me how people who work for a living dont want an 8 hour day with honest pay. well, they do, but they are told they dont and they believe it. the blind faith is just horrific.

How do you figure that? A lot of people make a good living and do without being in a union.

 

[wirednuts]

I am curious why nobody brings up the Dem fleeing the state having their jobs in jeopardy. The fled the state and didnt even fight the good fight allowing this to happen.

the republicans didnt even discuss the issues with the democrats, forcing the dems to walk out. they are simply doing what they needed to do in order to protect their people from unjust governing.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by wirednuts
it absolutely shocks me how people who work for a living dont want an 8 hour day with honest pay. well, they do, but they are told they dont and they believe it. the blind faith is just horrific.

How do you figure that?

A lot of people make a good living and do without being in a union.

Where? CEO's and other exec positions don't count.