Wisconsin Senate Passes Union Reform Legislation

[Patranus]

I think Dems played it well though, for 2012. This really mobilized their base.

You have to remember that similar legislation was passed in Indiana and was VERY unpopular. Now it is very popular after the people of the state see the benefits of it.

 

[CPA]

What a democracy.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41996994/ns/politics-more_politics/

Republican senators separated the provision from Gov .
Scott Walker 's controversial budget bill, removing the
requirement that 20 senators be present for a vote on the
anti- union measure.

And leaving the state because you don't agree with the proposed legislation IS democracy?

 

[Darwin333]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
doing wrong is not popular either.

Sure it is.

 

[theeedude]

I don't believe Gov. Walker is up for election in 2012. Perhaps some of the legislature is but is it even plausible they can pick up enough seats to override a veto?

Obama is up for election in 2012. High Democratic turnout is good for him, and that's what those of us outside Wisconsin care about.

 

[MovingTarget]

The first domino has fallen. The rest of the middle class will follow.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

You all forgot the words lawsuits, injunctions, and courts.

Maybe Gov Walkers and his merry band of Republirats can self declare that the bill is not a fiscal measure, but not only must the Wisconsin courts have a go at that determination, so will the Federal Courts.

Long odds, Gov Walker will be long out of office before that court fight is even close to over. All it takes is one judge issuing an injunction, and the Gov Walker signature on the bill won't be worth the ink in his ink pen.

Hasn't Gov. Walker learned a single thing from Arizona?

You mean how when something doesn't go the Democrats way, they just leave and refuse to be a part of the government system that we have. They time and time again show that they don't want to be a part of the government process, they want to BE the government process.

Face it. More people than not where for reforming the unions powers.
Dems will now fish their lawsuit and find a liberal judge and work on getting it overturned. It's how it works now. No longer is it about the majority vote, it's about who can find a sympathetic judge that won't rule based on factual law, but creative interpritation.

 

[Engineer]

The first domino has fallen. The rest of the middle class will follow.

LOL...the middle class has been falling for over a decade now. This only makes it go faster. Interesting that the 3rd job with the largest need in this country (according to an article on Yahoo) for the next decade is education. With the revolt against teachers and their union, I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone go through the long educational process (including Master's degree) for this shit. It will be interesting to see educator's pay 10 years from now with some of the incentive removed to go into teaching.

 

[Patranus]

Yup, and then these same people applauding the Wisconsin governor now will be in here bitching about how our education system has gone further down the shitter...:hmm:

CA pays its teachers the most and it has one of the worst public school systems in the country.

 

[etrigan420]

It will be interesting to see educator's pay 10 years from now with some of the incentive removed to go into teaching.

Yup, and then these same people applauding the Wisconsin governor now will be in here bitching about how our education system has gone further down the shitter...:hmm:

 

[theeedude]

LOL...the middle class has been falling for over a decade now. This only makes it go faster. Interesting that the 3rd job with the largest need in this country (according to an article on Yahoo) for the next decade is education. With the revolt against teachers and their union, I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone go through the long educational process (including Master's degree) for this shit. It will be interesting to see educator's pay 10 years from now with some of the incentive removed to go into teaching.

In the third world banana republic tax shelter the Republicans want to turn this country into, the masses don't need an education.

 

[Throckmorton]

So I guess you Republicans are going to stop pretending it's about the budget and acknowledge it's really about union busting?

 

[Engineer]

CA pays its teachers the most and it has one of the worst public school systems in the country.

Think paying them less will make it better?

The problem with schools isn't teachers getting paid too much, it's the bullshit that gets pushed through that keeps teachers from being effective...(no child left behind, no "meaningful" punishment, no parental involvement, on, on, on...)

 

[matt0611]

So I guess you Republicans are going to stop pretending it's about the budget and acknowledge it's really about union busting?

So this won't have impacts on future budgets then?

 

[Phokus]

I don't believe Gov. Walker is up for election in 2012. Perhaps some of the legislature is but is it even plausible they can pick up enough seats to override a veto?

1) Walker can be recalled starting in Jan 2012

2) 8 GOP senators can be recalled now, i believe they only need to recall 3 in order for the Dems to retake the senate

 

[JS80]

Think paying them less will make it better?

The problem with schools isn't teachers getting paid too much, it's the bullshit that gets pushed through that keeps teachers from being effective...(no child left behind, no "meaningful" punishment, no parental involvement, on, on, on...)

If paying less keeps the quality the same, then it's win/win for the taxpayers.

 

[Jadow]

I think Dems played it well though, for 2012. This really mobilized their base.

2012 elections are too far away, they won't be able to keep the energy for 20 months.

These laws will go through, people will realize the world hasn't ended, the sky hasn't fallen, and the repubs will be just fine at both the state and national levels.

 

[matt0611]

2012 elections are too far away, they won't be able to keep the energy for 20 months.

These laws will go through, people will realize the world hasn't ended, the sky hasn't fallen, and the repubs will be just fine at both the state and national levels.

I have to agree with this. If this was summer/fall of 2012 then maybe, but I think Nov 2012 is simply too far away and the law doesn't have that broad of a direct impact on the populace at large to do much.

There will be so many things that happen between now and then throughout the country that will overshadow this IMO.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

2012 elections are too far away, they won't be able to keep the energy for 20 months.

These laws will go through, people will realize the world hasn't ended, the sky hasn't fallen, and the repubs will be just fine at both the state and national levels.

The problem with that thinking is you are forgetting the agitator in chief. He'll not forget this and have all his hooligans all hootin and hollarin' at the capital during the election. The problem he and his thugs face are where to focus their effort and money. They chose wisconsin and Ohio,Indiana, and Idaho passed bills almost the same(or worse for unions). Do they have the cash and power to affect all those places?

Your second part is right though - the R's are going to be fine as long as they F-up the media portion now.

 

[theeedude]

2012 elections are too far away, they won't be able to keep the energy for 20 months.

These laws will go through, people will realize the world hasn't ended, the sky hasn't fallen, and the repubs will be just fine at both the state and national levels.

That's one possible outcome, but the odds of it are less likely then they would have been if Democrats did not create this showdown and energize the base, so strategically, they played their hand well.

 

[Patranus]

The problem with that thinking is you are forgetting the agitator in chief. He'll not forget this and have all his hooligans all hootin and hollarin' at the capital during the election. The problem he and his thugs face are where to focus their effort and money. They chose wisconsin and Ohio,Indiana, and Idaho passed bills almost the same(or worse for unions). Do they have the cash and power to affect all those places?

Your second part is right though - the R's are going to be fine as long as they F-up the media portion now.

Ya, but the independents are still running from Obama as fast as possible.
He can bring in all the union thugs he wants but that wont change peoples minds.

 

[Nebor]

So I guess you Republicans are going to stop pretending it's about the budget and acknowledge it's really about union busting?

I thought that was clear all along. Is there something wrong with union busting?

 

[Generator]

No longer is it about the majority vote, it's about who can find a sympathetic judge that won't rule based on factual law, but creative interpritation.

Give us a break you shill, your own piddly reasoning applies to collective bargaining not being a fiscal issue. This isn't legislating but perverted alchemy. Its hilarious.

Anyways fuck you Democrats to. You got what you voted for. The only remarkable thing in this fiasco is just how dedicated a stooge Walker is right wing money men. Won't be long before the poor bastards of Wisconsin have their shitters privatized by some crony corporate racket.

 

[Phokus]

And leaving the state because you don't agree with the proposed legislation IS democracy?

Democracy is also about transparency and being transparent with what you intend to do once you're elected. Of course most politicians fib or leave out what they intend to do while they're campaigning, then you have to estimate how much political capital you have once elected. Since Walker didn't make his intentions to bust the union known while he was campaigning, he miscalculated how much political capital he had and now finds out that the people of Wisconsin are against him.

Also, I learned today that Abraham Lincoln once jumped out of a window to prevent qorum. I salute the Democrats on the lamb.

 

[theeedude]

Ya, but the independents are still running from Obama as fast as possible.
He can bring in all the union thugs he wants but that wont change peoples minds.

53% approval for Obama
53% disapproval for Walker
in Wisconsin.

 

[Bateluer]

53% approval for Obama
53% disapproval for Walker
in Wisconsin.

March counts as Winter 2011 in Wisconsin?

I support their actions, it was necessary to close the budget gap and fix problems with the state. The Dems had plenty of chances to debate and combat the bill in the spirit of democracy, and they chose to run. Spineless.

This will be extremely good for everyone but the Unions. 🙂