wireless only network?

[Kartajan]

This is the problem.

dormitory style building, many willing users in seperate one person rooms.

"no permanent wires", temporary wires are a constant battle.
"no sharing of internet access"

my thoughts:
wireless access points (2, one on each wing of the building); Wireless lan cards for each user who wants in- they buy their own.

If I just get 2 wireless access points, bolt them to push carts, and plug them in at the middle of each wing- will they talk to each other?
building has most walls made of steel reinforced concrete- what kind of penetration am I likely to get? Is 1 per wing likely to cut it?

** Budget is minimal. It will depend on how much I can raise from the intended users... They don't make much...

 

[Kartajan]

oops- I forgot..

Stated purpose for this network is for network gaming. (BF1942, UT<original>, Quake 3, Red Alert 2, Warcraft III, etc...)

 

[Lord Evermore]

I've learned recently that with a clear path, 802.11b only goes like maybe 120 feet. Linksys claims up to 300 feet indoors with their routers. Concrete and steel walls will KILL the signal; you may be lucky to get through two rooms. I'm not even sure directional antennas would help in that case. A signal booster may help, but by then you're talking about putting a lot of money into it.

Ignoring the signal limits, the two access points can be configured to function as one network I think. Technically you don't need the access points, wireless cards can be used as an ad-hoc network. An access point is intended to give a wireless network access to a wired network.

Have you considered power-line networking or HPNA phoneline networking?

Is this at the crazy house?

 

[Kartajan]

don't hpna and powerline networking require being on (same phone line) or (same circuit breaker)?

This is a dormitory, each room has its own breaker as well as seperate phone line.

The main reason that I was thinking of using a wap is that the signal might penetrate the one/ two walls to the wap, and then the reverse out to whichever user.

picture attempt:

|_|_|_|_|_| |_|_|_|_|_|_|
_ _ X _ _ _ _ _ _ _ X _ _ _
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |

X is wap, can you see the rooms?

edit: picture looked like crap, trying again...

 

[Kartajan]

no joy with my ascii art, try this:

"O" is room, "X" is wap

OOOOOOO OOOOOOOO
X....................X
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Lord Evermore]

Well, I guess it would depend on the particular angles that the WAPs and rooms are at. If they're just a straight hallway, then depending on the placement of each user's PC or wireless device (like USB), it may only need to pass through one or two walls. Like, the room right beside it can put the PC anywhere, the next one down can put it anywhere. But then the next one kind of needs to move it a bit closer to the front wall. Then the next one down has to go even closer to the front to be "visible" when a third wall is considered not in line of sight.

You can see that by drawing out the layout with some room for extra drawing; then draw a straight line from an AP to each room, passing only through one wall or at most two. As you get farther away, the angle results in the single front wall becoming apparently "shorter", so there's less area that a straight line can cover without hitting more walls. And the farther away, the weaker the signal that is trying to punch through more wall.

How many actual rooms are there, and how long are the wings? Are the two wings a straight line, L shaped or some other angle? Are the walls solid concrete with steel rods in it, or just cinder blocks with steel reinforcement?

To provide the best coverage, you'd want to put the AP in each wing as close to the center as possible. That way rather than it having to reach the full length of the wing to hit a door, it only has to reach at most halfway down. (I think that's what your drawings intended to show. A monospaced font is required to do something like that, along with a bit more control over the HTML output.)

You might have to set each AP to a different channel, so that the overlapping signals don't cause any issues. Just a random thought in case it comes up.

Powerline networking doesn't require that everyone be on the same breaker, only on the same main panel as far as I know. Just like a normal house, every circuit may have its own breaker, but they all connect to a single high-amperage distribution point. However, there's no guarantee that every room is on the same panel or mains service, so it might be iffy. Maybe getting a couple of the cards and testing them out in each room would be possible. There do seem to be limits on how many machines can be connected at once, however you may also hit limits with a wireless setup.

 

[ktwebb]

You definitely won't be able to run a microwave Ad-Hoc setup. You can use a couple of AP's however they will need to be cabled together via Cat5. You could set them up as bridges but then you eliminate wireless client access, or One as an AP and the other as a Workgroup bridge, however the WGB wouldn't allow client associations as it is a client. Various ways to go about what your suggesting. The best is to run at least one copper wire from AP to AP, crossed over by the way, and have at it.

 

[prosaic]

Heh-heh, I just thought of a silly idea, but it might work. Assuming that the halls are straight you could hang the access points outside windows about half-way down each wing. Have all the users get USB-connected wireless clients and put those at their windows. But I wouldn't want to hang the CAT5 connecting the WAPs outside. That could be a major hazard. Just having the WAPs and the wireless clients sitting out there is bad enough -- for lots of reasons. But if you're desperate enough...

At the VERY least everybody should insure their rigs against damage, and you would want to do the very best possible job of weatherproofing the bits that have to hang outside.

- prosaic

 

[Lord Evermore]

Or when they want to game, just stick the USB wireless adapters outside their doors.

 

[prosaic]

Originally posted by: Lord Evermore
Or when they want to game, just stick the USB wireless adapters outside their doors.

Doh! You're absolutely right! Why stick 'em outside when you can stick 'em in the hallway -- assuming it's easy enough to set up close to the door. I guess it's usually easier to put a PC near a window than a door. I guess that's because most of 'em run Windows. Heh-heh. Ouch! It hurts when I make jokes that bad!



- prosaic

 

[Bleep]

OK now, listen carefully and follow everything I tell you and we will get your machine up in no time.

Do you have Windows? Heck no we have these little booths in the middle of a big hall.

Bleep