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Wireless Engineer - $165/hr

S

spidey07

No Lifer
Doing a large wireless project and need about 3 wireless engineers (802.11 stuff, controllers, location services, etc). Got some of the bids back and the wireless engineers are $165/hr. Not bad scratch. I know some of the guys doing the work and they know their stuff.

And get this, the project manager was 130/hr. Engineers were more expensive than the PM.
 
We just had a presentation about this today. 2.4x our wage is considered the break-even point for the company. Then one also needs to factor in down time when the engineer isn't doing actual engineering work. I think I had about 10 hours of down time this week where I'm waiting for other people to respond to things. Billing for 4x my wage sounds fairly reasonable.
 
Billing at 4x salary? You might be getting had. Closer to 3x is, or at least when I was in the industry, more the norm. Then again, the job market does suck these days.
 
Project Managers are usually not the talent, they're the coordination. I make about 15% - 20% more than the PMs running my projects. Not bragging, just stating what is.
 
The network engineers we had install our wireless network got paid about $50/hour. Billable came in around triple that.

That was just for the guys actually in the ceiling installing the AP's.

I think the guys who configure and install the NCS and WLC's make more though.
 
JEDI said:
if u can get one at $40/hr, then why arent they screaming for a refund in the price difference???
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because if they could FIND one competent enough to do the job... they would... but since they can't...they PAY a premium price.


Do you do all your car repair? or do you take it to a mechanic who charges you $185/hr book rate for billable labor?
 
JEDI said:
why does the customer even allow that?! they're paying $165/hr for an expert.
if u can get one at $40/hr, then why arent they screaming for a refund in the price difference???
Click to expand...

The customer is free to find engineers, project managers, and guys to run the cabling themselves if they have the expertise and manpower. Obviously most don't. Good luck finding such talent that are currently out of work, looking to take on a job, can all perform the work and planning at the same time, and are willing to take on a job that might only be 1 or 2 days work. I think HR has better things to do.
 
Lifted said:
The customer is free to find engineers, project managers, and guys to run the cabling themselves if they have the expertise and manpower. Obviously most don't. Good luck finding such talent that are currently out of work, looking to take on a job, can all perform the work and planning at the same time, and are willing to take on a job that might only be 1 or 2 days work. I think HR has better things to do.
Click to expand...

This and what guyver said.
 
Lifted said:
The customer is free to find engineers, project managers, and guys to run the cabling themselves if they have the expertise and manpower. Obviously most don't. Good luck finding such talent that are currently out of work, looking to take on a job, can all perform the work and planning at the same time, and are willing to take on a job that might only be 1 or 2 days work. I think HR has better things to do.
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Indeed. I fill that niche for a couple of companies myself, and it can get dicey when the shit hits the fan in two or three places at once.
 
I can hook up wireless devices. The other stuff Ill look up on Google. Ill take $20 an hour + rental car and a room.

When can I start? 🙂
 
JEDI said:
why does the customer even allow that?! they're paying $165/hr for an expert.
if u can get one at $40/hr, then why arent they screaming for a refund in the price difference???
Click to expand...

My billable rate is what it costs for an hour of my time once you add up all the overhead. We don't charge our external customers any more than we would charge an internally funded project.

The cost of overhead for engineers is pretty darn high.
1. The cost of benefits for engineers isn't cheap, health, retirement, etc.
2. The cost of paying for the building I work in,
3. The cost of the facilities and labs I have access to
4. The cost of the chief engineers who I can go to for advice (they don't bill for their time, they're just there to support the other engineers)
5. The cost of the software I use. Many of the software packages can cost upwards of $10k per seat.
6. The cost of the support staff who don't bill their time. Secretaries, HR, managers, etc.
7. The time I spend training or doing overhead work that I don't bill a customer for.

When you add it all up there's not really any profit left in my billable rate, that's just my cost. We typically don't make money off billing for engineer's time in my division, we make money selling products we design during that time. It really does take that much money to keep an engineer working.
 
I guess the auto mechanic is a good analogy. When you take your car for a repair, you are billed for like $80/hr labor, while the actual technician working on your car is probably paid at < $20/hr. I can understand that because a shop/company has a lot of overheads and liabilities and other running costs. You can sure hire someone who is willing to do the job for less but most ppl don't want to take that risk.
 
When I did engineering for consulting, I got paid 58k a year. However, when I was billed to customers, I cost any where between 95 to 105 an hour.
 
For salaried consulting staff the multiplier has to consider non-utilized hours (not working for client), overhead staff, overhead hours (sick/holiday/vac), benefits, etc.

3x is pretty norm for consulting.
 
CLite said:
For salaried consulting staff the multiplier has to consider non-utilized hours (not working for client), overhead staff, overhead hours (sick/holiday/vac), benefits, etc.

3x is pretty norm for consulting.
Click to expand...
Also keep in mind that the software could run up around 20k per computer. Autocad and Microstation are 5k each and my compuer has both. Windows XP Pro license, Windows server license, MS Office prfessional, Adobe PDF, a whole bunch of networking stuff to other offices, etc. The computer itself was at least 2k because it's a xeon processor.

There's a lot of money to be made if you do independent consulting, but finding work is a big problem. Working for someone else provides consistent 40 hours pay every week. You'll make 4x that on your own, but you'll only be working some of the time.
 
CLite said:
For salaried consulting staff the multiplier has to consider non-utilized hours (not working for client), overhead staff, overhead hours (sick/holiday/vac), benefits, etc.

3x is pretty norm for consulting.
Click to expand...

Yup, your salary to you, the same number to keep the lights on/non-billable/overhead, and the same number in gross profit.
 
i am a subcontractor, and if the government is paying my company 4x my salary for my position, it is a decent amount higher than $165/hr.

my billable title is senior systems engineer but i'm actually doing software development/engineering.
 
purbeast0 said:
i am a subcontractor, and if the government is paying my company 4x my salary for my position, it is a decent amount higher than $165/hr.

my billable title is senior systems engineer but i'm actually doing software development/engineering.
Click to expand...

u can find out what the govt is paying for your position w/a FOIA request.

then u have leverage on your next pay raise negotiation
 
spidey07 said:
Doing a large wireless project and need about 3 wireless engineers (802.11 stuff, controllers, location services, etc). Got some of the bids back and the wireless engineers are $165/hr. Not bad scratch. I know some of the guys doing the work and they know their stuff.

And get this, the project manager was 130/hr. Engineers were more expensive than the PM.
Click to expand...

worthless without how many hours one can get.

In my company it's AM's > Engineers > PM's

With some latitude to cross those barriers both ways.
 
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