Windows WGA

AgentJean

Banned
Jun 7, 2006
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http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84



Two weeks ago, I wrote about my serious objections to Microsoft?s latest salvo in the war against unauthorized copies of Windows. Two Windows Genuine Advantage components are being pushed onto users? machines with insufficient notification and inadequate quality control, and the result is a big mess. (For details, see Microsoft presses the Stupid button.)

Guess what? WGA might be on the verge of getting even messier. In fact, one report claims WGA is about to become a Windows ?kill switch? ? and when I asked Microsoft for an on-the-record response, they refused to deny it.

Last week, a correspondent on Dave Farber?s Interesting People list posted some comments about his experiences with Windows OneCare Live. In the middle of the post, he added this tidbit:

I like to review updates before they are installed. The only update that I have not installed is the latest WGA because of the security issues related to it.

I called Microsoft support to see if there is a hidden option to say, "yep, I've got updates turned to manual? it's okay." The rep said, "No and why wouldn't you want to get the latest updates to Windows."

I responded with the issues relating to WGA. He spent some time telling me that WGA was a good thing, etc. I reiterated that I have accepted all the updates except WGA and just want to review the updates before they're installed on my machine.

He told me that "in the fall, having the latest WGA will become mandatory and if its not installed, Windows will give a 30 day warning and when the 30 days is up and WGA isn't installed, Windows will stop working, so you might as well install WGA now." [emphasis added]


I'm wondering if Microsoft has the right to disable Windows functionality or the OS as a whole (tantamount to revoking my legitimate Windows license) if I do not install every piece of software that they send it updates.

That can?t be true, can it? I?m always suspicious of any report that comes from a front-line tech support drone, so I sent a note to Microsoft asking for an official confirmation or, better yet, a denial. Instead, I got this terse response from a Microsoft spokesperson:

As we have mentioned previously, as the WGA Notifications program expands in the future, customers may be required to participate. [emphasis added] Microsoft is gathering feedback in select markets to learn how it can best meet its customers' needs and will keep customers informed of any changes to the program.

That?s it. That?s the entire response.

Uh-oh. Currently, Windows users have the ability to opt out of the Windows Genuine Advantage program and still get security patches and other Critical Updates delivered via Windows Update. The only thing you give up is the ability to download optional updates. Hackers have been working overtime to find ways to disable WGA notification. If WGA becomes mandatory, would it mean that Microsoft could prevent Windows from working if it determines ? possibly erroneously ? that your copy isn?t ?genuine?? That?s a chilling possibility, and Microsoft refuses an easy opportunity to deny that that option is in its plans.

Over at Ed Bott?s Windows Expertise, I?ve been soliciting feedback from Windows users who?ve been burned by WGA. So far, I?ve received 20 comments. Here?s a sampling:

I have an XP Media center with a promise RAID 0 4-disc array. When I installed the WPA it broke the drivers for the array by causing failed delayed writes (half of the array just ?disapears?.) If I do a system restore to before the installation of the WPA everything goes back to working just fine.
ince installing WPA ? I?ve had blue screens and a total inability to boot. I had to run the XP repair function to get the computer to boot. I had a damaged boot sector on the hard drive. I am running two drives on a RAID 1 config.
I purchased a SEALED OEM copy of XP Professional. WGA said the license key was already used. I called MS and they said I should uninstall and buy another copy. I told them I wasn?t made of money and hung-up.
Microsoft rejected the product key that came with the ThinkPad I?m using. I had to call in and they gave me another code to enter which supposedly worked but now I get the blue screen of death about every other time I reboot. I?ve also lost all internet connectivity.
I sent my Compaq Presario notebook for service repair, and it fails the WGA check. I have a legal version of windows xp professional on it. But I have no way to correct this problem.
What?s most disturbing about this whole saga is Microsoft?s complete lack of transparency on the issue. And before the ABM crowd jumps in with predictable ?What did you expect?? comments, let me argue that Microsoft actually has a fairly good track record on transparency issues in recent years. Windows Product Activation is very well documented, and when a similar uproar occurred in 2001, it was squelched quickly by some fairly prominent postings from high-level executives who provided details without a lot of spin. Likewise, the Microsoft Security Response Center has done an exceptional job at providing quick responses to security issues. (Just ask Adam Shostack.)

Currently, no one at Microsoft is blogging about this fiasco. No executive has been quoted on the record about it. There are very few technical details available, and those that have been published are being tumbled through the spin machine and spit out as press releases.

If Microsoft really does plan to turn WGA into a kill switch in September, be prepared for an enormous backlash.




I think it's a load of bull. No way would Microsoft risk killing off a few thousand computers that could be incorrectly deemed "illegal" this crap storm would kill them.

Anothing thing I think to be bull is. How can they kill a machine not infected by WGA already? I keep my systems "off the grid"
 

Canterwood

Golden Member
May 25, 2003
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I read this the other day, and also believe its BS. (It better be)

WGA would have to be 100% accurate (which it isn't) to be able to pull this off.

If WGA becomes mandatory, I'll be permanently moving over to Linux at home. I've just about had enough of MS screwing us over with this kind of crap.

Firstly activation, now WGA, maybe soon we'll have to sent begging letters to fatboy Ballmer to use the freaking OS.

I guess this is what happens when there's no competition.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
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No way would Microsoft risk killing off a few thousand computers that could be incorrectly deemed "illegal" this crap storm would kill them.

You think they care about a few thousand machines out of the milllions that are out there?

How can they kill a machine not infected by WGA already? I keep my systems "off the grid"

They can't, but they can make WGA a requirement for future patches so you won't be able to upgrade anything without getting WGA.

But what'st he problem, you really can't afford a Windows license?
 
Jun 4, 2005
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Not only is Windows still affordable, but there are people who dedicate their time to evading this kind of thing. I don't doubt that you'd have your security patched within a week of their release.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
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How does WGA interfere with a RAID cards ability to write?
How does WGA break a boot sector?

The others are disturbing and I am not sure what Microsoft will do when people with valid licenses get the boot because their system believes the software is already in use?

I'll be irate with my systems get locked out when I have valid retail licenses.


 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
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That's just what we need, another legitimate way for software to prevent Windows from running. What do you think the next worm/malware is going to exploit?
 

MonsterMac

Senior member
Jun 27, 2005
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they wont do this, too much important stuff runs on the windows infastructure for them to risk losing those false positives.
 

WT

Diamond Member
Sep 21, 2000
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WGA affects me at work, as four years ago we knew nothing about Sysprep, having Ghost as our only tool, so we imaged 250 PCs using the same OEM key. Now WGA threatens to force us to properly register the correct ID key. No big deal, I can do that given time, but talking with our other subbed IT support helpers leads me to think that one day in the near future WGA will not only force us to apply the correct ID for each PC, but will also force us to reinstall the OS from a sysprepped image with a blank product key. Try that one on for size !! We are legit on our licenses, but having to wipe out 250+ PCs to appease MS that we are in fact legit is hardly fitting on a busy summer schedule.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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Originally posted by: WT
WGA affects me at work, as four years ago we knew nothing about Sysprep, having Ghost as our only tool, so we imaged 250 PCs using the same OEM key. Now WGA threatens to force us to properly register the correct ID key. No big deal, I can do that given time, but talking with our other subbed IT support helpers leads me to think that one day in the near future WGA will not only force us to apply the correct ID for each PC, but will also force us to reinstall the OS from a sysprepped image with a blank product key. Try that one on for size !! We are legit on our licenses, but having to wipe out 250+ PCs to appease MS that we are in fact legit is hardly fitting on a busy summer schedule.

Heh i thought open licensing would be spared, but they are putting the screws to that as well. Now I am reading about how this screws up WSUS environments, wonderful.

 

Canterwood

Golden Member
May 25, 2003
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You think they care about a few thousand machines out of the milllions that are out there?
Yes. It would only take a couple of companies to have their legitimate copies shutdown to cause some very very bad PR for Microsoft. Not to mention the lawsuits for loss of business.
But what'st he problem, you really can't afford a Windows license?
Why should the legit consumer put up with having their copy of Windows phone home everyday so that MS can still be sure your still legal.
Too many people are prepared to put up with every bit of crap MS throws at them just because 'they don't have anything to hide'.

I legally own everything in my home, but I wouldn't put up with the cops checking round everyday just in case I'd got hold of a stolen dvd player.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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Yes. It would only take a couple of companies to have their legitimate copies shutdown to cause some very very bad PR for Microsoft. Not to mention the lawsuits for loss of business.

All press is good press, MS deals with enough bad press so I really doubt a few more will hurt them much. And I really doubt anyone would sue them over this, although that would be good because it would set a precedent as to whether or not their EULAs are enforcable or not.

Why should the legit consumer put up with having their copy of Windows phone home everyday so that MS can still be sure your still legal.

Because you can't tell if their legit without it. Why should legit employees have to swipe a badge to get into work every morning?

Too many people are prepared to put up with every bit of crap MS throws at them just because 'they don't have anything to hide'.

If you don't like it use something else.
 

AgentJean

Banned
Jun 7, 2006
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Originally posted by: Nothinman
Yes. It would only take a couple of companies to have their legitimate copies shutdown to cause some very very bad PR for Microsoft. Not to mention the lawsuits for loss of business.

All press is good press, MS deals with enough bad press so I really doubt a few more will hurt them much. And I really doubt anyone would sue them over this, although that would be good because it would set a precedent as to whether or not their EULAs are enforcable or not.

Why should the legit consumer put up with having their copy of Windows phone home everyday so that MS can still be sure your still legal.

Because you can't tell if their legit without it. Why should legit employees have to swipe a badge to get into work every morning?

Too many people are prepared to put up with every bit of crap MS throws at them just because 'they don't have anything to hide'.

If you don't like it use something else.


What like a MAC? ROFLMAO on please.

What, Linux? Gamers don't use LINUX.


I think Gates knows MS is about to die a horrible death and the computing industry is going to go with it. He wanted to jump ship instead of go down with it like the captian is suposed to.

 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
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What like a MAC? ROFLMAO on please.

What, Linux? Gamers don't use LINUX.

I know plenty of people that play games on Linux. I don't know if I'd call them gamers because they're adults that usually also use their computer for things work, but if all you want is a gaming system get a console. Just because you don't know how to use the alternatives that are out there, that doesn't mean they don't exist and they couldn't work.

I think Gates knows MS is about to die a horrible death and the computing industry is going to go with it. He wanted to jump ship instead of go down with it like the captian is suposed to.

Right, a company that can afford to hemorrhage millions of dollars a year for decades is "about to die a horrible death" for no real reason.
 

AgentJean

Banned
Jun 7, 2006
1,280
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Originally posted by: Nothinman
What like a MAC? ROFLMAO on please.

What, Linux? Gamers don't use LINUX.

I know plenty of people that play games on Linux. I don't know if I'd call them gamers because they're adults that usually also use their computer for things work, but if all you want is a gaming system get a console. Just because you don't know how to use the alternatives that are out there, that doesn't mean they don't exist and they couldn't work.

I think Gates knows MS is about to die a horrible death and the computing industry is going to go with it. He wanted to jump ship instead of go down with it like the captian is suposed to.

Right, a company that can afford to hemorrhage millions of dollars a year for decades is "about to die a horrible death" for no real reason.


Got 1 word for your

ENRON!
 

sonoma1993

Diamond Member
May 31, 2004
3,414
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This whole wga is getting stupid. What next are they going to charge a subscription fee to use windows every month?
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,350
4,973
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Originally posted by: WT
WGA affects me at work, as four years ago we knew nothing about Sysprep, having Ghost as our only tool, so we imaged 250 PCs using the same OEM key. Now WGA threatens to force us to properly register the correct ID key. No big deal, I can do that given time, but talking with our other subbed IT support helpers leads me to think that one day in the near future WGA will not only force us to apply the correct ID for each PC, but will also force us to reinstall the OS from a sysprepped image with a blank product key. Try that one on for size !! We are legit on our licenses, but having to wipe out 250+ PCs to appease MS that we are in fact legit is hardly fitting on a busy summer schedule.

Bolded sections above:

Actually and legally you should have done this to start with. The ignorance is no excuse thing. The easy way isn't always the legal way.

I'm not busting your chops here, but a blind man could have seen this coming years ago. From what I've seen in the last year is that " casually " pirated versions of Windows XP has been significantly reduced.

PC sent to shop for problems
Shop informs owner the copy is Pirated or not legit.
Customer buys a copy to make it OK.

Legal.

From my experiences.
pcgeek11
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
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Got 1 word for your

ENRON!

Enron died (or basicly crashed as it's still around) is that they made money hand over fist for so long that it was expected that they just keep doing that forever. Of course this couldn't go on forever and when the commodity market for energy was about as profitable as it ever could possibly be they started doing realy waky things to try to figure out the 'next big thing' to keep their profits accelerating.

Of course they failed at doing this then their real mistake was that instead of just taking the huge hit in the stock market when everybody else figured this out they lied all over the place about their finances.

Then of course that couldn't of been kept up either so when the time came for them to get caught (and they conned one execuative to being the Democrate's fall guy while the rest of the execuatives basicly retired rich) they their stock price was hit like a ton of bricks. The wealth that people thought they had while invested in Enron was imaginary.

Microsoft, of course, (once they won the PC market) already took their major hit years ago when people figured out their was (relatively) no more growth for them and didn't fib or do anything realy waky. ( http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=MSFT&t=my&l=off&z=m&q=l&c= )

So now MSFT and their investors are quite happy to sit around with billions and billions of dollars of profit every years at the current mareket prices as Microsoft probes other markets looking for new growth opportunities (ie Xbox, wifi devices, peripheral computer componates, media appliances, webtv stuff, business software development stacks, etc etc)

This whole wga is getting stupid. What next are they going to charge a subscription fee to use windows every month?

If you don't like it there is always alternatives.

There are people that want you to use their software. They want you to give away and hack around with and make it work how you want. There is a whole crapload of software you can use whose creators are perfectly happy having you redistribute it via P2P stuff. No problems, no 'cd cracks', no BSA, no FBI, etc etc.

If you still want to use Windows then that's fine also. At least put up with their crap and pay their money as thanks for creating such a invaluable object in your life that you can't (or don't want to) part with it. Give them at least some motivation to keep making up to date security and bug patches for your system.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
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I think Gates knows MS is about to die a horrible death and the computing industry is going to go with it. He wanted to jump ship instead of go down with it like the captian is suposed to.

Yeah the software industry is dying. And Microsoft too! Let's see... in Q3 06 they only had $2.9 billion of net income. Damn, if they keep that up they will only have $12 billion of net income for the year.

They're screwed. Just like last year..

With only $37 billion in cash and short term investments, the company is really operating on the edge of getting a "significant concerns" letter from its auditors this year. If that happens, the weakened giant will be ill-positioned to withstand the onslaught from well-funded open-source operating systems. Just last year, investment in open source operating systems reached unprecedented levels, and was nearly equivalent to Microsoft 's $290 million annual budget for team-building backpacking trips.

We're gonna need an alternative, and soon!


 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
5,468
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I think Gates knows MS is about to die a horrible death and the computing industry is going to go with it. He wanted to jump ship instead of go down with it like the captian is suposed to.
You're talking about a company that generates a billion (with a B) dollars of profit every single month. Think you might want to revise your ludicrous statement now?

Bill is leaving because he has more money than he knows what to do with. Or rather, he does know what to do with it...use it to make the world a better place.

With the donation from Buffet, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is now required, by law, to donate about 3 billion dollars a year. There are plenty of capable people in place at Microsoft now to keep things humming along, freeing Bill up to pursue this other passion.
 

Geiser34

Member
May 29, 2006
98
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Yeah...Back on Topic...:)

Here's the solution to people whose Windows XP doesn't pass WGA (like mine), just don't download the fall update for XP. :cool:
Dont want do kill your OS?:confused: DON'T DOWNLOAD THE UPDATE!:|
Simple as that.
So what if you don't get Windows XP Service Pack 3? :Q
Vista comes out in January, just in time, so I dont really see what the big deal is. :p
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
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Here's the solution to people whose Windows XP doesn't pass WGA (like mine), just don't download the fall update for XP.
Dont want do kill your OS? DON'T DOWNLOAD THE UPDATE!
Simple as that.
So what if you don't get Windows XP Service Pack 3?


The only "kill switch" that will happen with Windows XP will apparently be all the hackers that have a feild day raping your system becuase now people will refuse to update their systems.

Of course you could just upgrade your system to Vista if you want to avoid it.. But you realise of course the WGA with Vista (or it's equivelent) will be more hardcore then the XP version.

Me thinks avoiding installing updates that will install WGA stuff in XP is fairly pointless.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
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Don't like the rules Microsoft offers? Use consumer friendly software. You have a choice, don't bitch if you won't take advantage of them.