Windows Server 2003 License question

[naimcohen]

Hi all

I need to set up a server for someone who doesn't want to spend much.

I have found this on eBay which looks good and comes with a license:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110976345608?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

But I want to know how will the license work? I have a copy of windows server 2003 I can put on or will it have to be a copy from dell?

Any help would be great.

Does it look like a decent unit or is there better for the same money? Bear in mind this comes with the license (hopefully one I can use)

Thanks!

 

[smakme7757]

Hard to say. Server 2008 started the trend with the "Unified installer" so i'm uncertain about Server 2003. Worst case you find an ISO online that works.

 

[theevilsharpie]

Windows Server 2003 did not have a unified installer, and you needed a media type that matched the CD-key on the server.

Dell's business line is usually well-supported with replacement parts, and that includes replacement media. If the server doesn't come with the installation media, you should be able to order replacements for cheap.

 

[naimcohen]

Ok thanks, does it look like a decent unit though?

Thanks

 

[theevilsharpie]

Not really. It only includes 2GB of RAM, it doesn't include any hard drives, and the only testing they've done is, "Does it boot?" The server is also pretty old, so not only will you need to stock replacement parts, those parts may be hard to find.

If your IT infrastructures requirements are so low that you're buying eight-year-old used servers off of eBay, you may want to consider repurposing a more modern desktop PC instead, or completely outsourcing the function to a hosted provider.

 

[naimcohen]

I see what you are saying. It's just to run as a file server and one shared program to provide quotes and invoicing. The requirements are pretty low.

What would you recommend instead? and would a hosted provider be able to do something like that?

Thanks

 

[theevilsharpie]

How many people will be accessing the server?

 

[naimcohen]

around 5, maximum 10 at any one time. It's for a small business, sharing a few files and the one specialist program which requirements were minimum processor xeon 1.6 ghz and 4gb ram

Thanks

 

[theevilsharpie]

Any computer will work, really. Just make sure it has Windows 7 Professional and a fault-tolerant disk array. You may also want to get more than 4GB of RAM, as additional memory can make up for the performance of slower disks to a degree.

 

[naimcohen]

Ok, I suppose I could do that but if they insist in having a server put in and the software works best with server 2003 (according to the software company doesn't work great on 2008) what would you suggest?

Bear in mind price to a minimum thats why i suggested the old server with a license already.

Thanks

 

[lxskllr]

Ok, I suppose I could do that but if they insist in having a server put in and the software works best with server 2003 (according to the software company doesn't work great on 2008) what would you suggest?

Bear in mind price to a minimum thats why i suggested the old server with a license already.

Thanks

You should be testing your exact use before deploying new hardware/software. Can't you load the software in question into a Win7 vm to see if it works?

 

[naimcohen]

Its a bit difficult to test as it links to multiple computers and their pda's so to go through the set up twice would involve too much company time wasted. Not to mention that the software is going to be installed by the software company and I dont think I'll be able to get a copy of it. This page shows their requirements: http://www.amtech.co.uk/faq Will be using service manager and job costing

 

[theevilsharpie]

If they insist on a real server, Dell and HP sell entry-level servers for not much more than a desktop. Some of the very entry-level servers may come bundled with Windows Server 2008 Essentials, but otherwise you'd have to supply an OS, which can be expensive relative to the hardware. You can obtain Server 2003 by purchasing a volume license copy of Server 2008 R2 and downgrading the license. Just bear in mind that Server 2003 is pretty old, and you may be on your own if the server doesn't officially support it. You'll also need to purchase client access licenses for Server 2008 for the number of users you'll be supporting.

I don't recommend used servers for small businesses, but you can go that route if keeping the cost low is absolutely critical. If you go used, you'll want to get something that is reasonably recent so that you can get replacement parts if necessary. For old servers, the most likely things you'll need to replace are disk drives, so you'll want a server that supports modern SAS or SATA drives. Also, you may want to stick with generic tower server designs; anything other than the absolute lowest-end rack servers generally use proprietary power supplies, fans, daughterboards, etc. that can be costly to replace.

Also, Windows Server 2003 will be end-of-life'd in less than three years, so any server you get running the OS will have a pretty short service life. And of course, there's the issue of Server 2003 reducing your hardware options and making the system more expensive to purchase and support. You may just want to tell the software company to STFU and make their product work on modern Windows operating systems. Windows Server 2008 has been available for almost 5 years, so it would be difficult for the software company to justify their lack of support in that regard.

 

[naimcohen]

Fair enough, I do see the points you are making and will use them when suggesting a newer type server to my client.

Now that you mention sata drives, in new servers which accept the use of sata drives, do you need special server class drives or would a good desktop drive be fine to use?

Thanks

 

[theevilsharpie]

It really depends. The more "proprietary" a server is, the more likely you'll run into problems using anything but the disks the server vendor sells. In any case, you're not going to get support from the server vendor if you're not using their drives, so bear that in mind.

That being said, generic drives should work fine. If the server has a hardware RAID controller, you'll want to use drives that disable extensive error correction like the Western Digitial RE4, or the disk array may lock up of a drive has an error.

Your question is another point in favor of using commodity desktop equipment: servers are lot more picky about components.

 

[naimcohen]

Ok thanks for clearing that up

I'll see what my client wants and speak to the software company again. I'll come back if I have any more questions

Thanks for the help

 

[imagoon]

The 2650 is more than 8 years old. I was pitching Dell 2850's that were already 7 years old. At my last employ the oldest machine in the fleet was a 2600 (the 4u / tower convertible unit) that was for the old voicemail was 5 years old in 2006 -> extended the warranty 2 years [nic failed] so I could get a proper replacement ready. Anyway the point was that it was over 7 years old in 2008, add 4 more since it is 2012 and that means you are looking at over a decade old hardware.

Those are SCA80 SCSI drives in nearly all cases. Getting those drives any place but ebay is impossible now as they are no longer made. Those run the very old Netburst Xeons (pre 64bit extensions) so they are power hogs and really slow. The RAM maybe RDRAM which is also ebay only. The server parts will also be ebay only since Dell no longer stocks that server series.

2003 Server is end of life 7-2015 also.

So it looks like being cheap to get "server class" is going to cost them way more money. Also I think Dell dropped the 2003 images since they stopped selling it with servers 4 years ago?

 

[Nothinman]

Ok, I suppose I could do that but if they insist in having a server put in and the software works best with server 2003 (according to the software company doesn't work great on 2008) what would you suggest?

Bear in mind price to a minimum thats why i suggested the old server with a license already.

Thanks

I would suggest you call up the software company and bitch them out for not supporting Server 2008 or 2008 R2 yet. Server 2008 has been out for almost 5 years now and Server 2003 has been out of mainstream support for 2.5 years now and even that support will end in another 2.5 years. There are absolutely zero excuses for them to not have been supporting it for at least 3 years already. Especially since their site lists the software as "Ametech 2012" so they've obviously been updating it, just not correctly. It's doubly evident when the instructions tell you to disable UAC.

To buy an almost decade old server and run an OS that will be unsupported in just over 2 years to run a business is just insane. Most people extremely underestimate what that could cost them because they think hey can just run over to BestBuy and get replacement hardware or whatever. You need to explain the support costs that will come with that old of a server and explain that even a new desktop will be better in the long run. If you can't get around the Server 2003 requirement (and I would highly suggest you beat those people up until they relent or find a replacement) run that within a VM on the desktop and make sure it's known that it should only be considered an interim solution until something better can be found. Depending on the hardware, you could possibly even run ESXi on the thing and put the VM in there so you have a simpler transition down the road.

 

[Chiefcrowe]

I'm with you on this one! I always try to use the newest possible hardware and software.
It has been a real PAIN to migrate some of the old stuff when you are forced to...

I would suggest you call up the software company and bitch them out for not supporting Server 2008 or 2008 R2 yet. Server 2008 has been out for almost 5 years now and Server 2003 has been out of mainstream support for 2.5 years now and even that support will end in another 2.5 years. There are absolutely zero excuses for them to not have been supporting it for at least 3 years already. Especially since their site lists the software as "Ametech 2012" so they've obviously been updating it, just not correctly. It's doubly evident when the instructions tell you to disable UAC.

To buy an almost decade old server and run an OS that will be unsupported in just over 2 years to run a business is just insane. Most people extremely underestimate what that could cost them because they think hey can just run over to BestBuy and get replacement hardware or whatever. You need to explain the support costs that will come with that old of a server and explain that even a new desktop will be better in the long run. If you can't get around the Server 2003 requirement (and I would highly suggest you beat those people up until they relent or find a replacement) run that within a VM on the desktop and make sure it's known that it should only be considered an interim solution until something better can be found. Depending on the hardware, you could possibly even run ESXi on the thing and put the VM in there so you have a simpler transition down the road.

 

[naimcohen]

I have been looking at dells and hps entry level servers. Anything you guys want to recommend?

Thanks

 

[rasczak]

The owner would probably be better off using salesforce to provide the quote and invoicing.

 

[Chiefcrowe]

This one should be pretty good and last a while.

PowerEdge T320

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...model_id=poweredge-t320&c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04

 

[naimcohen]

On Dell's UK site it comes up to about £1,500 with the operating system. Is that the price I should be expecting to pay for a decent server or could something be had for say around £500-800?

Thanks

 

[debian0001]

delete