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Windows 7,8,10 and Safe disc, Securom

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
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Guess it's a good thing I got all those games back in my more immoral days :p And congrats to MS who once again shows they really are clueless and removes something that wasn't good to begin with, but doesn't actually help fix what is broken when they finally do get rid of it. (Looking at you GFWL).
 
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Dahak

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2000
3,751
24
81
Guess it's a good thing I got all those games back in my more immoral days :p And congrats to MS who once again shows they really are clueless and removes something that wasn't good to begin with, but doesn't actually help fix what is broken when they finally do get rid of it. (Looking at you GFWL).
Well to be fair, this is not MS fault, it was the publishers/developers, unless you are talking about GFWL, then yes that was MS's fault

So. what's up with Win 10 and Microsoft disabling any game that used either safe disc or securom DRM's? I guess there's a work around:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/09/23/windows-update-disables-safedisc-drm-7-8-vista/
:twisted:
A list of games that used safe disc: http://www.gameburnworld.com/protectedgameslist3.shtml

Does this include downloaded games as well?

The Wife
If its on that list I would assume so, I remember some steam games that still used secure rom

Gotta keep this booked marked just in case
 

balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
4,732
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So what happens when the game is blocked? Is there any type of pop-up that describes what is happening or do we need to dig into admin logs to find out what is going on?
 
Feb 4, 2009
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So wait at first us PC gamers accepted secure rom because piracy then we hated it because it destroyed CD drives and you know DRM, now we like it because old games are more important than security for everyone.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
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Me thinks you missed the point. (which is, they removed it, but didn't bother to make the games that use it work, just broke things - like they did when they dropped GFWL). So again it is up to everyone else to fix their fug-up.
 

XavierMace

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2013
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So again it is up to everyone else to fix their fug-up.
The fug up was them allowing it in the first place. They just waited until their security hole was in wide spread usage before fixing it. I have no idea how you think they would fix other companies software as a result.
 
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Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
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I'm not sure what else Microsoft was supposed to do. If they publicly released some way to circumvent SecuROM or other DRM methods, that could land them in legal trouble.

As a reminder, for EA games affected by this you should be able to redeem your CD key through Origin and download a digital, SecuROM-free version of the game at no additional charge.
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,504
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The problem with SecuROM and other mid-aughts DRM schemes is they're basically rootkits. Given their level of access, there's concern they could be used to execute malicious code. I doubt Microsoft would do this if security researchers hadn't discovered some sort of attack vector. Nobody's ever going to patch the holes, so I guess it was safer to just remove them completely. It does suck though that this will render a lot of games unplayable. Further proof that DRM only harms paying customers.

The easiest way to "solve" the problem would be to repurchase those old games from Steam or GOG. It's good that EA is letting people redeem their CD keys for a free digital copy. Keep in mind that it's also technically not illegal to make copies of something you already own... if you want to go sailing for it.
 

balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
4,732
1,074
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It's too bad there isn't an OS with common sense that puts it's paying customers first then they would create a simple UI pop-up that explains why the game won't start and asks the user what they want to do instead of them needing to dig around the registry which can lead to other problems. Silly me, I thought was the entire reason behind an OS was to make it easier for people to run their programs. I guess if MS doesn't profit from it they don't give a crap anymore. I'm glad they patched their hole but a little more effort would make their paying customers lives easier.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
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So, what's up with MS closing a gaping security hole?

And more seriously, how is this up to MS and not the scummy publishers that used the DRM in the first place? Please, explain why MS is responsible for code they didn't write, had no part in, and weren't responsible for?
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,834
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So wait at first us PC gamers accepted secure rom because piracy then we hated it because it destroyed CD drives and you know DRM, now we like it because old games are more important than security for everyone.
Pretty much. Also, gotta hate on Microsoft.
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,834
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Me thinks you missed the point. (which is, they removed it, but didn't bother to make the games that use it work, just broke things - like they did when they dropped GFWL). So again it is up to everyone else to fix their fug-up.
How on earth is it Microsoft's job to fix issues with third-party software? With GFWL, yes, they could have done more since that was their program. However, GFWL was NOT a security risk and these DRM programs are NOT made by Microsoft. Are you seriously suggesting that Microsoft should leave holes in their operating system so that people can play some games? There was only one logical thing for Microsoft to do: warn publishers ahead of time so they could take necessary measures to make sure that people could play the games that they paid for. If you have to blame someone, blame the publishers.
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,504
12
0
So, what's up with MS closing a gaping security hole?

And more seriously, how is this up to MS and not the scummy publishers that used the DRM in the first place? Please, explain why MS is responsible for code they didn't write, had no part in, and weren't responsible for?
This is how Microsoft spokesperson Boris Schneider-Johne explained it in an interview at Gamescom.
“Everything that ran in Windows 7 should also run in Windows 10. There are just two silly exceptions: antivirus software and stuff that’s deeply embedded into the system needs updating – but the developers are on it already – and then there are old games on CD-Rom that have DRM. This DRM stuff is also deeply embedded in your system, and that’s where Windows 10 says “sorry, we cannot allow that, because that would be a possible loophole for computer viruses.” That’s why there are a couple of games from 2003-2008 with Securom, etc. that simply don’t run without a no-CD patch or some such. We can just not support that if it’s a possible danger for our users. There are a couple of patches from developers already, and there is stuff like GOG where you’ll find versions of those games that work.
Microsoft is trying to limit third party software from having root level access to the OS. If exploited, these programs could theoretically allow attackers to completely take over your system. Sony et al basically abandoned these DRM schemes a few years ago so they never get security updates. So it was likely just easier for Microsoft to purge them entirely.
 

DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
2,308
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Time to check my list of games to see which come under the UK Law protecting them for 6 years.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
825
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How on earth is it Microsoft's job to fix issues with third-party software? With GFWL, yes, they could have done more since that was their program. However, GFWL was NOT a security risk and these DRM programs are NOT made by Microsoft. Are you seriously suggesting that Microsoft should leave holes in their operating system so that people can play some games? There was only one logical thing for Microsoft to do: warn publishers ahead of time so they could take necessary measures to make sure that people could play the games that they paid for. If you have to blame someone, blame the publishers.
It is THEIR DRM. Not the publishers or devs. Fix the DRM, not just break it. As if this security hole is new. MS has a track record of ignoring things until it gets out of hand.

There are analogies that could work here in terms of using some other persons product and that product being broken.
 
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BSim500

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,480
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I see it as 50/50. Microsoft aren't to blame for plugging such security holes. On the other hand, they could and should have nipped these DRM rootkits in the bud a decade ago, especially when they were interfering with optical disc burning / Lightscribe software, etc. Personally it doesn't affect me as I've always run all CD/DVD based retail games I own with "noCD's" simply to save wear & tear on the disc and to increase convenience & game startup times. For others though, it's the only way to get such games to run on ultra-portable notebooks / thin Mini-ITX's with no internal optical drive. As for the morality / legality of it, if you legally own the game then not having to insert the disc each time is really no different from ripping a DVD you own to a DLNA NAS. Even GOG incorporate them (with permission) as standard so no big deal about not using them anymore. Some of the better devs have simply patched out their own optical disc based DRM themselves.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
9
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It is THEIR DRM. Not the publishers or devs. Fix the DRM, not just break it. As if this security hole is new. MS has a track record of ignoring things until it gets out of hand.

There are analogies that could work here in terms of using some other persons product and that product being broken.
hahahaha

oh man.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
825
126
Talk about straight-up wrong.

Also, GFWL games can still be played. The service is borked, and I'm not sure about multiplayer, but they still authenticate.
Yea, you guys are right. I was mistaken - I was thinking it was MS's DRM (like GFWL - even though it wasn't really a DRM).

As for GFWL working..yea..it does. However many people (myself included) lost their saves in the conversion.

Point being is neither of these should have been in place to begin with. The companies ARE responsible for them. The "well you can get them at GOG" isn't an answer. I can also get a working copy from the internet. Just saying.
 
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