Windows 10 hangs on boot, requires several tries before it actually loads

[Red Squirrel]

We have a win10 (not my idea) machine at my church used for displaying powerpoint etc. Ever since I added a video card to this machine in order to be able to use two screens ("presenter view" and then the projector itself), when it boots, it often just shows the windows logo, then hangs at a black screen. The monitor turns off. Need to hard power cycle it a few times and eventually it works. It's very random.

Interestingly I have two machines at home that sorta does something similar, but it's before it even hits the OS, as it does not matter what the OS is. Seems there are certain motherboards that don't like add on video cards or something.

This particular machine is an HP pavilion 550-129. The video card is an Nvidia Gforce 210.

If I take the video card out, then it does not do it. So not sure if this is an OS or hardware problem, but in this particular case it does happen after the windows splash screen so I presume it might be a combination of both.

Any ideas what would cause this?

 

[XavierMace]

Try a newer video card. Some video cards don't play well with UEFI.

That said, the onboard graphics are more than capable of running dual monitors. Is there some other reason for using the GT210?

 

[Red Squirrel]

Needed a low power card that also does not require external power, so I found that one and bought it. Figured it was fairly modern given it was being sold new at NCIX. For some reason the onboard stopped working properly, both ports work, but not at the same time. So I had to get a separate card.

I don't have any other card I can try other than some power hungry gaming ones. Though for testing purposes suppose I could rig a separate 12v source to power it but not sure if that could be problematic as the voltages may not match 100% and try to feed into each other through the card. Or would it?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Needed a low power card that also does not require external power, so I found that one and bought it. Figured it was fairly modern given it was being sold new at NCIX.

It's crap-level Fermi. At least, get a GT610, or nowadays, a GT710 (I *think* those might be Kepler).

For some reason the onboard stopped working properly, both ports work, but not at the same time. So I had to get a separate card.

That could be a sign that somethings not right with the PC. Might also explain the black-screens at boot.

I don't have any other card I can try other than some power hungry gaming ones. Though for testing purposes suppose I could rig a separate 12v source to power it but not sure if that could be problematic as the voltages may not match 100% and try to feed into each other through the card. Or would it?

I know you know about electricity, but I wouldn't bother. Just get a GT710 for $30 (USD, not sure how much in CAD).

 

[Red Squirrel]

Found it but for more expensive.
http://www.ncix.com/detail/gigabyte-gt710-1gb-954mhz-ddr3-c9-130711.htm

Says it requires at least 300w. Though that's for the whole system, so not sure how much the card itself actually uses. Wonder if I can get away with it. The PSU is only like 150w. 10A on one 12v rail and 7a on the other. Not sure which one feeds the pcie slots.

I don't really want to spend too much money on this, otherwise I could upgrade the PSU as well. It looks to be a standard size.


What's interesting is how this issue is so random though, some times it boots up fine, sometimes it does not. If you keep clicking the mouse or pressing keys it may sometimes coax it to boot too. It's odd.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Decided to check time when I turn it on so I can check event logs and see where it starts. Looks like some entries do get added to it (fairly basic routine stuff from looks of it) but then it just stops. So no major errors or anything, but there is stuff in it indicating that the OS is in fact loading but then it just hangs.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Fdisk, format, reinstall.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Hoping to avoid that. Was hoping it was maybe a known issue or something and it might be a setting somewhere. It seems to be so random too, does not always do it.

This machine has never been updated since it's not on a network, I wonder if it would be worth a shot or if that will just cause more issues. I don't like the idea of the telemetry crap though. This machine does not have a mic or camera that I know of, and I would put it on a vlan that's isolated from the rest of the network, so suppose I would be safe and could give it a try.

 

[XavierMace]

I would be more inclined to find out why the onboard isn't working properly or if this is just being used for powerpoint and such, just get a USB adapter. Work just fine for basic desktop usage and they have their own AC adapter, so you don't have to worry about the crappy power supply in the system.

https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Gra...=1499408774&sr=8-3&keywords=usb+video+adapter

We've got a few hundred of those at work. Never had any issues with them.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Decided to just update the driver to see what happens, and hope that windows does not start force rebooting the machine in the middle of the driver update and was successful in getting the driver to install.

Now when it decides to hang, it eventually restarts, then boots normally. I might call this a win and leave it at that. At least I can tell people that they just have to wait, vs having to hold down power button and keep trying etc.

Though it's still kinda a hack, so open to other suggestions. Suppose a USB adapter is an option.

Edit: I spoke too soon, after about 5-10 tests, sometimes it just hangs forever like it did before. It's really sporadic.

 

[Pick2]

I would get a better power supply. 300-450 watt. have a spare you can try it out with ?

 

[Red Squirrel]

No spare, I'd have to order. Trying to avoid spending money on this. The power supply that's in there is the one it came with. Clones always skimp so badly on PSUs though. I'm not convinced it's a power issue though, since it runs fine once it's running, it's just that at boot it randomly hangs to a black screen and turns off the monitor. It's like if it goes into some kind of standby mode.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Tested PSU 12v and 5v rails with my scope, looking good. The rails are a few 100mv higher than nominal and never budged even during a benchmark. Testing the 3.3 would be a bit more tricky as I'd have to open up the psu to get to it. I think it might still be under warranty so trying not to go too far in case we ever need it. I suspect if it was a power issue it's probably the 12v rail I'd be worrying about anyway as that's what the video card uses the most I think.

For what it's worth decided to do a full system update, I'll let that go and see if that happens to fix anything. First round of updates is at 60%, I'm sure there will be many rounds to go as it's never been updated.

Would a bios update be worthwhile? The issue happens once the OS is loading though so not sure if bios matters at that point.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Well updates didn't fix it. It seems to have 3 different modes though, that it randomizes through:

1: that it actually works
2: screen turns off after splash screen, and it just sits there
3: screen turns off after splash screen, but after a while it restarts then boots normally

These are completely random, so when you turn on the PC it can do one of those 3. It seems to be about 50/50 chance of getting a successful boot. When it's hanging, you can also sometimes get it to keep booting if you fiddle around with mouse and keyboard. Like pressing random keys. I have not figured out if a specific key sequence does it, as it's delayed.

I might have to try another video card. I'll be away on and off for the next month so I don't want to order anything because it will probably end up showing up when I'm gone but guess when I get back I will try that. That or I'll order one of those USB adapters, since if it does not work I can use it at work.

 

[XavierMace]

Have you tried to figure out why the on board video stopped working? It seems a waste to throw new hardware at it when it should be able to do what you need it to do without anything else.

 

[Pick2]

I have seen about this same set of symptoms on a couple PCs recently. The one I suspected the hard drive , ordered an SSD , but before it arrived , the HDD ( a spinner ) died Installed the new SSD and DVD drive while I was at it , installed the latest OSX and it's been running just fine ( and FAST ) for almost a year. The second one is still acting up - It boots up just fine - or it stalls out at some point , then finishes booting - once in a while I get tired of waiting and just reset it. I have an SSD I bought for it , but It's just My Internet bouncer running Debian Linux , so I'm not concerned at the moment. It's the one I'm typing on now If it fails , I've got the Wife's old iMac - the one with the SSD I fixed , sitting right next to Me. It's a 2011 , and boots faster than the Wife's new 2016 iMac ( that pisses her off lol )

Once the PC boots fully , do you notice an occasional slowing or does it seem to run full speed. that could indicate the HDD going out like the iMac.
Did you disable the iGPU in the BIOS , or are you still using it for the monitor ?

More later ...

 

[Red Squirrel]

I decided to bring it back as is since I will be too busy in the next month to work on it and just for fun took out the card and it looks like the onboard started working again. Maybe the updates fixed it. Not sure for how long it's going to work though, because originally it worked, then it just randomly stopped. To get the projector to work, you had to unplug the monitor. Both ports worked, but not at same time.

So I suppose I can consider this fixed, for now. It also boots WAY faster without a card, but that seems to be the case with all UEFI machines I've ever seen. Once you add a video card it greatly reduces the POST time. I had to pull the one out of my main machine at home because it would take like 20 minutes to POST. Every now and then it would get stuck in a loop. It was a huge ordeal to cold boot that machine. Took out the card and it runs super fast. Never had this issue with machines that have a regular BIOS.

 

[Pick2]

Intermittent problems are the worst kind. Used to run service calls on industrial controls for near 20 years , a lot of them were Intermittent. FUN

 

[Puffnstuff]

screen turns off after splash screen, but after a while it restarts then boots normally

Sounds like cold boot inrush current is shutting it down.