Win 8.1 update 1--will this be enough ? ETA April

[lifeblood]

You forget Win8 is a hybrid OS

I disagree Win8 is a hybrid OS. It’s a tablet OS with a badly stripped down legacy mode (desktop mode).

I’ve used Win8 on tablets and liked it. The Metro interface worked well for what I was using it for. However, I would never try to work in Visio or ArcGIS using a tablet and a touch interface. Both programs need large screens with a mouse for precision. And that is where Win8 fails. Win8 has been controversial because of the lobotomy MS did to desktop mode.

I think sales of Win8 tablets have suffered because of the bad press Win 8 in general has gotten. People who don’t understand the fuss may just decide to avoid Win8 tablets without realizing the problem with Win8 is on desktops, not tablets. To fix this problem MS needs to generate good press. Win 8.1 generated good news, and hopefully Update 1 will generate more good press, but I think MS needs to come out with Win9 and really generate some enthusiasm like Win7 did. That will help them in both the desktop and the tablet market.

Part of the problem Win8 has for desktop users is the cost of touch screens which is not MS’s fault. I would be much more forgiving of Win8 if I had touch screen monitors, but not at that cost. I don’t know if/when this situation will change, but I think it would help. That way I can use the mouse when it’s the better tool, and the touch screen when it’s more beneficial. (I like choice)

On to the Ops question...

I don’t think Update 1 will be enough.

MS needs to make Windows 9 a true hybrid. It needs to possess all the strengths of Win7 in desktop mode, with the strengths of Metro in tablet mode. To do this they need to bring back the start menu. I don’t think the Start Menu is the end-all-be-all, but so much hate and discontent have been generated by its removal that they just need to give it back. I also want to run Metro apps on the desktop in a window. And, while I’m wishing, I’d like some of the Aero flashiness back too, Give me that in Windows 9 (along with the Metro stuff as an option) and I’ll enthusiastically upgrade to it.

 

[Mem]

I disagree Win8 is a hybrid OS. It’s a tablet OS with a badly stripped down legacy mode (desktop mode).

I’ve used Win8 on tablets and liked it. The Metro interface worked well for what I was using it for. However, I would never try to work in Visio or ArcGIS using a tablet and a touch interface. Both programs need large screens with a mouse for precision. And that is where Win8 fails. Win8 has been controversial because of the lobotomy MS did to desktop mode.

I think sales of Win8 tablets have suffered because of the bad press Win 8 in general has gotten. People who don’t understand the fuss may just decide to avoid Win8 tablets without realizing the problem with Win8 is on desktops, not tablets. To fix this problem MS needs to generate good press. Win 8.1 generated good news, and hopefully Update 1 will generate more good press, but I think MS needs to come out with Win9 and really generate some enthusiasm like Win7 did. That will help them in both the desktop and the tablet market.

Part of the problem Win8 has for desktop users is the cost of touch screens which is not MS’s fault. I would be much more forgiving of Win8 if I had touch screen monitors, but not at that cost. I don’t know if/when this situation will change, but I think it would help. That way I can use the mouse when it’s the better tool, and the touch screen when it’s more beneficial. (I like choice)

On to the Ops question...

I don’t think Update 1 will be enough.

MS needs to make Windows 9 a true hybrid. It needs to possess all the strengths of Win7 in desktop mode, with the strengths of Metro in tablet mode. To do this they need to bring back the start menu. I don’t think the Start Menu is the end-all-be-all, but so much hate and discontent have been generated by its removal that they just need to give it back. I also want to run Metro apps on the desktop in a window. And, while I’m wishing, I’d like some of the Aero flashiness back too, Give me that in Windows 9 (along with the Metro stuff as an option) and I’ll enthusiastically upgrade to it.

I disagree,tablets have no need for the old desktop part that's why its a hybrid OS for PC,tablets,phones etc..

As to touch comment it's not a problem for Win8 desktop users,95% of them probably use good old mouse and keyboard like I do on Win8,Win8 is flexible in that way.

Only Aero I like is the one you buy in a store that you can eat.

Sure you can argue should be an option but it's eye candy at best and not that important for a powerhouse desktop user IMHO.


Start menu debate has been beaten to death,personally don't miss the old start button menu,I do hope however Microsoft continue to experiment with new types of start menus ie like you see on some Linux distros,but fact is you will always get some users moaning and wanting to stay on the almost two decades old style (Win95 to Win7).


I hope Win9 is a new refresh of something completely new UI wise but then you know some people will hate that.

MS needs to make Windows 9 a true hybrid

Give them time,Win8 is like mk1 of hybrid, desktop Windows has had many decades and versions to get where it was with Win7.

🙂

 

[Morbus]

You know you're full of [it] when you don't miss Aero AND you don't miss the old start menu.

No profanity in the tech forums, please
-ViRGE

I'm sorry, won't happen again.
-Morbus

 

[Mem]

You know you're full of [it] when you don't miss Aero AND you don't miss the old start menu.

Says it all when you are trying to throw cheap insults,.

I make it simple so even you can understand,why should I miss the old start menu when I've been using computers since pre-Amiga / DOS days (way before Win95 ,the start menu as you know it) and as for Aero, remember XP and ALL previous operating systems, did they have Aero?.... No ,I managed just fine without it even on good old Linux.

 

[mikeymikec]

Maybe we can ditch all the fanboy arguing and actually discuss the OPs topic?

Update 1 is a step in the right direction. "windowed" metro apps means they might actually be usable from a desktop perspective. Likewise, UI usability improvements like adding search and power options right to the start screen without awkward mouse swiping is a positive thing no matter how you feel about the current Win8.

Will Update 1 turn a "hate it" product into a "love it" product and save Win8's reputation? Of course not. However, MS making these changes with 8.1 and now Update 1 is a major PR move. It's not about saving a sinking ship, it's about winning back consumer trust by showing "hey, we're listening and we're making adjustments."

Well, never before has an MS OS had such quick aesthetic modifications as well as free ones, so yes, it's a PR exercise. The next thing they need to do is drop the Microsoft account fetish. I swear that Win81 is more pushy than Win8 in this regard.

---

http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/28/5456374/windows-8-1-with-bing-experiment

Yikes.

 

[Ranulf]

I disagree,tablets have no need for the old desktop part that's why its a hybrid OS for PC,tablets,phones etc..

And yet, one of the big selling points for windows8 tablets has been that it can run your "desktop apps" aka programs meant for a desktop, like Office. Its a hybrid OS that forces you to deal with a touchscreen UI no matter what. Sure, you can customize it but thats not a good design, making users tweak a setup right away just to make it work like their old windows desktop OS.

Imagine if MS forced Win8 to boot into desktop mode on tablets by default and you had to go in and set it up to load the touchscreen "modern metro", including telling Win8 to use by default all your "apps" instead of the typical desktop programs (skype, twitter, facebook, etc. etc.). Why does skype have two versions? Why did they default it to the metro version? Lots of amusing flack on that one from customers. Heaven forfend you want to do something besides skype chat at the same time. But you know, MS app store! Yay!

 

[Mem]

And yet, one of the big selling points for windows8 tablets has been that it can run your "desktop apps" aka programs meant for a desktop, like Office. Its a hybrid OS that forces you to deal with a touchscreen UI no matter what. Sure, you can customize it but thats not a good design, making users tweak a setup right away just to make it work like their old windows desktop OS.

Imagine if MS forced Win8 to boot into desktop mode on tablets by default and you had to go in and set it up to load the touchscreen "modern metro", including telling Win8 to use by default all your "apps" instead of the typical desktop programs (skype, twitter, facebook, etc. etc.). Why does skype have two versions? Why did they default it to the metro version? Lots of amusing flack on that one from customers. Heaven forfend you want to do something besides skype chat at the same time. But you know, MS app store! Yay!

I think Microsoft probably thinks its easier just to have a hybrid OS that does it all regardless of what device you have ,also gives them a bigger market too especially with latest hardware.

Hybrid OS will always be a compromise to some point ,they could go back to different operating systems ie a desktop OS,tablet OS etc but that would be admitting defeat in the early stages or they could build on the hydrid OS and make changes/improvements,eitherway they need to decide which way they are going.

Everybody expects(including me) improvements in Win9,but we still don't know if they are going to make it more a hybrid OS or something else.

 

[Elixer]

Looks like MS will release new ISOs with all updates, including update 1 to OEMs, one can only hope that they will allow end-users to get a ISO as well.

 

[Mem]

Looks like MS will release new ISOs with all updates, including update 1 to OEMs, one can only hope that they will allow end-users to get a ISO as well.

It would be a good move by Microsoft if they did.

 

[ViRGE]

It would be a good move by Microsoft if they did.

Which, sadly, is why they won't.🙁 Microsoft has never been good about releasing ISOs. Digital River was a happy accident.

 

[MongGrel]

Got me, I like 8.1 and don't even have an I-Pad type device.

Just me maybe.

*shrug*

 

[escrow4]

The bigger problem is Windows is still more or less the same since 95. You still have the desktop, you still have explorer.exe, you still the core apps (WMP + IE), you still have the taskbar. The guts have been adjusted but nothing has really changed. A shiny new Metro skin and start menu and its Windows 8. What will 9 bring? For $100 a pop, I'd expect something innovative.

 

[Morbus]

By that reasoning, Windows, Linux, OS2, Mac OS... It's all the same thing.

 

[ViRGE]

The bigger problem is Windows is still more or less the same since 95. You still have the desktop, you still have explorer.exe, you still the core apps (WMP + IE), you still have the taskbar. The guts have been adjusted but nothing has really changed. A shiny new Metro skin and start menu and its Windows 8. What will 9 bring? For $100 a pop, I'd expect something innovative.

Uhh, isn't that what Windows 8 was? Microsoft innovated and large parts of the Internet had a fit.

After Windows 8, it's clear that Microsoft isn't going to make sweeping changes to the desktop unless it's significantly better than the current desktop paradigm, and more importantly that they can prove to users that it's better. The current paradigm is "good enough" and now no one wants to change.

 

[Mem]

Which, sadly, is why they won't.🙁 Microsoft has never been good about releasing ISOs. Digital River was a happy accident.

It would be nice to think of their legit paying customers out there especially with all the piracy around with dodgy ISOs floating about.

 

[JEDIYoda]

The bigger problem is Windows is still more or less the same since 95. You still have the desktop, you still have explorer.exe, you still the core apps (WMP + IE), you still have the taskbar. The guts have been adjusted but nothing has really changed. A shiny new Metro skin and start menu and its Windows 8. What will 9 bring? For $100 a pop, I'd expect something innovative.

It`s hard to make an issue out of a non issue.....

 

[ViRGE]

It would be nice to think of their legit paying customers out there especially with all the piracy around with dodgy ISOs floating about.

The problem is that they want their legit paying customers using the media they already have. Especially OEM customers, since OEM media will have the appropriate drivers pre-loaded.

 

[Morbus]

It would be nice to think of their legit paying customers out there especially with all the piracy around with dodgy ISOs floating about.

I've never had a problem, not then, and not now that I own my own keys. You just need to know where to look, to be honest.

The problem is that they want their legit paying customers using the media they already have. Especially OEM customers, since OEM media will have the appropriate drivers pre-loaded.

That's also one of the reasons OEM are the other son of satan (together with Windows 8 itself). Never mind that those "drivers" you speak of are largely crapware: I know full well what drivers I want and what drivers I don't, and I don't want outdated versions, I want the newest ones. So don't get your grubby inbred swollen stumps in my iso, you bloody OEMs!

 

[MongGrel]

I always just have to get keys these days myself, though you can do things like No Script of course and *cough* Bluetack *cough* and various things, etc.

Pardon me, furball.

 

[Mem]

I've never had a problem, not then, and not now that I own my own keys. You just need to know where to look, to be honest.


That's also one of the reasons OEM are the other son of satan (together with Windows 8 itself). Never mind that those "drivers" you speak of are largely crapware: I know full well what drivers I want and what drivers I don't, and I don't want outdated versions, I want the newest ones. So don't get your grubby inbred swollen stumps in my iso, you bloody OEMs!

I know where to look but my point was as a paying customer we should not need to look online elsewhere,Microsoft could provide better customer support with ISOs.

 

[Mem]

The problem is that they want their legit paying customers using the media they already have. Especially OEM customers, since OEM media will have the appropriate drivers pre-loaded.

Look at all the Win8.1 owners asking for an ISO to do a clean install rather then upgrade from 8 to 8.1 via store,sure there are work arounds and places you can get it if you know where to look but they don't make it easy for those legit Win8 owners out there.

 

[escrow4]

It`s hard to make an issue out of a non issue.....

It is an issue. Windows still doesn't have an adequate media player, still doesn't have a proper .pdf viewer (not Metro), still has some old ass junk hunkering in the kernel from 95. Its just licks of paints and tweaks and voila! another $100+. Microsoft should switch over to a rolling release and price it annually - $150 would buy you 3 licences for Windows and 3 for Office, constantly updated. This isn't the 20th century anywhere, those static releases are just poor.

 

[Maximilian]

Wow heres a discussion that's treading new ground :whiste:

Look at windows 8/8.1 adoption rate.... I rest my case!

 

[Morbus]

It is an issue. Windows still doesn't have an adequate media player, still doesn't have a proper .pdf viewer (not Metro), still has some old ass junk hunkering in the kernel from 95. Its just licks of paints and tweaks and voila! another $100+. Microsoft should switch over to a rolling release and price it annually - $150 would buy you 3 licences for Windows and 3 for Office, constantly updated. This isn't the 20th century anywhere, those static releases are just poor.

Windows doesn't have an adequate anything. I don't use a single piece of software that comes with Windows.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=35995670#post35995670

 

[Mem]

It is an issue. Windows still doesn't have an adequate media player, still doesn't have a proper .pdf viewer (not Metro), still has some old ass junk hunkering in the kernel from 95. Its just licks of paints and tweaks and voila! another $100+. Microsoft should switch over to a rolling release and price it annually - $150 would buy you 3 licences for Windows and 3 for Office, constantly updated. This isn't the 20th century anywhere, those static releases are just poor.

Windows is still playing catchup in some ways to Linux software wise,end of the day you are lucky you do have options for Windows ie I got my Windows Media Centre free with Windows,there are third party options as well,PDF I normally use Firefox version on Win8.1 and again you have third party options like Foxit reader.

Kernel wise they can only change so much before it starts causing major compatibility issues I guess.

Linux has a more rounded complete package on install ie most things covered software wise.