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Win 7 or 10?

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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
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Aug 22, 2001
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It will be free until maybe August? So, you have till then to decide. After that you will pay for it. Buy 7pro now, and upgrade to 10 on a partition before the free offer expires. Then, if dx12 is still not a factor in any of the games you play, hold off using it if you choose. Just update 10 once in awhile.

If you are going to upgrade after the free period expires, buy retail 7 so you can migrate 10 to the new mainboard.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
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You are correct. It's not something I need to do often. I didn't make it too far past the first day with the OS, though, so I was using it pretty often. I spent several hours trying to figure out what I could and couldn't do to make the Start menu work like I wanted. FYI, I'm not attached to Windows 7's start menu either. There are things I don't like about it's default either, but there are options to customize it that are built into the OS. I don't need some 3rd party tool using up my processor just to make a functional navigation menu, but I installed one on my mother's computer and it does resolve her complaints about it too.

And yeah, I'm aware of what the letters are for and what they do. My problem is that they are ginormous, and force the list to be twice as long as it should be. Put them in small font at the top of the list, and that will solve one of the many problems I have. The only excuse for the letters being as big as they are is to make it convenient for tablet users fingers. I so can't wait for the tablet fad to end (again).

Thing is, I don't like Microsoft telling me how to use my computer, or forcing me to use it a certain way. I personally put applications into folders for their purpose (Video Editing Software, Audio Editing Software, File Management Software, Playback Software, Games, etc). In Windows 7 I can do all of this from within the Start Menu (create folder, drag icons in). In Windows 10, you can't do anything. you have to find the folder that contains the programs list, then gain rights to it, then add the folder there, and then create shortcuts manually.
It sounds like you just don't want to learn the new rules. You say Win10 forces you to do it one way, and not Win7, but they both have rules you must follow, and you just learn what you like about them and put it to use. Everyone here has given you a simple fix if you are unwilling to learn Win10, yet you simply are resisting. That may be fine, but don't act like Win7 is any different in its restrictions.

As far as your folders, you should check out the libraries. I'm not sure if it is a new feature or not, but I didn't discover their existence until after Win10. You can set up the libraries, then click on any folder or file and add it to them. It acts a bit like setting up Documents with multiple folders, only much easier and more universal.
 

Nashemon

Senior member
Jun 14, 2012
889
86
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Disable it if you don't like it.

The ability had been posted before it was officially released.
lol

Disable it if you don't like it? Who likes spyware? Shame it's become accepted, even by tech people, for some form of spyware to be in virtually every application we install, let alone embedded in the operating system.

It sounds like you just don't want to learn the new rules. You say Win10 forces you to do it one way, and not Win7, but they both have rules you must follow, and you just learn what you like about them and put it to use. Everyone here has given you a simple fix if you are unwilling to learn Win10, yet you simply are resisting. That may be fine, but don't act like Win7 is any different in its restrictions.

As far as your folders, you should check out the libraries. I'm not sure if it is a new feature or not, but I didn't discover their existence until after Win10. You can set up the libraries, then click on any folder or file and add it to them. It acts a bit like setting up Documents with multiple folders, only much easier and more universal.
Perhaps it's because I skipped Windows 8 entirely. I never got to experience life without the Start menu on my personal computer, so I'm not "just happy it's back" with rose colored glasses where I ignore its shortcomings. Every iteration was an improvement since '95 until W10, so of course I have gripes.

BTW, libraries were added in 7. I never used them either, but I'll look into it. I think they are more for files, than programs. My folders in the Start menu I use for launching programs.
 

Ranulf

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2001
1,656
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As I stated plenty of Start menus(free and paid for Win10).
Until an update comes along and Win10 forceably uninstalls that start menu during the patch. So far I remain unconvinced that the 8.1/10 desktop UI design is in anyway better or faster than the 7 and earlier designs. The new stuff is still hybrid OS insanity that can't decide what it wants to be, besides tracking your data and selling you stuff for your "Free" upgrade.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
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Perhaps it's because I skipped Windows 8 entirely. I never got to experience life without the Start menu on my personal computer, so I'm not "just happy it's back" with rose colored glasses where I ignore its shortcomings. Every iteration was an improvement since '95 until W10, so of course I have gripes.

BTW, libraries were added in 7. I never used them either, but I'll look into it. I think they are more for files, than programs. My folders in the Start menu I use for launching programs.
I never touched Win 8 either. I came from Win 7. I guess I came in a little more open minded.

As far as the Libraries go, it allows me to view all my programs of a particular type that are spread out around my system. So I have both my Steam common folders in it, my Origin's Library in it and so on. That way I can find them with ease. The same goes for the multiple places they store save data. I found it very handy. It's a lot easier to find anything now.

As far as the start menu goes, I haven't bothered with folders there, as you can see, I just make a screen sized tile layout I like instead. They are grouped up by type, but I just checked and it does allow you to pin folders there.
 
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jimrawr

Senior member
Mar 4, 2003
888
1
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I have 7 on my PC and then 10 on my Surface. I would not put 10 on my PC until I had to, really not a fan of it. For me 7 is perfect and until there is a really good reason to upgrade I wont. This is coming from someone who upgraded and liked all MS previous systems including Vista.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
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My feeling is that whether or not you like it, if you are a gamer, you better get used to it as DX12 should be a major game changer. The good news is I do prefer it.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,017
3,813
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I have Win10 on a laptop for T&E purposes. So far I've had numerous BSODs and other weird issues that were never encountered on 7 or 8.1, which firmly relegates it to the "non-production environment" category for me.

For the average gamer its performance is nice. For my desktops, I will image my 7 install, grab my free upgrade, and then image it back. Once Win10 leaves its current "beta" state (and works properly with work requirements) I will migrate over.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
22,723
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I have Win10 on a laptop for T&E purposes. So far I've had numerous BSODs and other weird issues that were never encountered on 7 or 8.1, which firmly relegates it to the "non-production environment" category for me.

For the average gamer its performance is nice. For my desktops, I will image my 7 install, grab my free upgrade, and then image it back. Once Win10 leaves its current "beta" state (and works properly with work requirements) I will migrate over.
That is the smart thing to do. Particularly for retail windows owners, having an activated copy, is a money saver down the line. You can migrate it with hardware upgrades legally and ethically, and get huge extra mileage out of that copy of 7 you bought ages ago.

the spyware rant falls flat on me. If you are not paying for a product, you are the product. But, what should be a cause for greater displeasure, is that even when you pay an arm and leg for most of these products, they still do it. Heck, most the TOS we agree to state they will access and sell various amounts of our personal data.

And in the final analysis it is all about what level of service and convenience you want. You can exercise a great deal of control over your online footprint.

But since this is PC gaming, the real meat and potatoes is this: You will have to migrate at some point as others stated. You can set it up for free now, or pay later. Then the currently "free" OS, will cost you money out of pocket. No brainer for PC gamers.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,794
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The real point that seems lost on many is, that isn't even in the realm of expectations right now. In fact it holds SO little value it is pointless to actually bring it up. Even if 1 game came out requiring DX12 in the next 3 months, it still wouldn't be a justification for the way it is being handled by MS. As it is, does anyone actually know when a game that uses it, and ONLY it is even coming? I know of 1, and it isn't due out until the end of next year(and I think even it uses DX11 as a secondary).

Sure if ALL you do on your PC is game, go for it, but for people who actually use PC's...well let's get real here.

The attitude would be a whole lot different if they weren't trying to be so underhanded about it. If you don't think after all these years they've been in this market they weren't/aren't being shady about it..with all the 'messed up' patches, and 'accidental' forced upgrades you have to be very naive. A company this big and this developed in the OS / patching world, doesn't make those kind of mistakes over and over. Give it two years, and let's see where they go with it. I have a feeling all those 'free' upgrades are going to cost a lot more in the long run.+-

All that being said I plan to do what bystander said. I also have a secondary system that doesn't get used for much that I will throw it on to play with. As for anything I actually use daily, it won't be going on them any time soon, most likely some time after the 'free' upgrade is gone if at all.

I have 2 specialized systems one on XP and one on 7, but those stay off the internet. They won't get upgrades. They only get patched if some breaking bug is found (which doesn't happen very often).
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
22,723
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The real point that seems lost on many is, that isn't even in the realm of expectations right now. In fact it holds SO little value it is pointless to actually bring it up. Even if 1 game came out requiring DX12 in the next 3 months, it still wouldn't be a justification for the way it is being handled by MS. As it is, does anyone actually know when a game that uses it, and ONLY it is even coming? I know of 1, and it isn't due out until the end of next year(and I think even it uses DX11 as a secondary).

Sure if ALL you do on your PC is game, go for it, but for people who actually use PC's...well let's get real here.

The attitude would be a whole lot different if they weren't trying to be so underhanded about it. If you don't think after all these years they've been in this market they weren't/aren't being shady about it..with all the 'messed up' patches, and 'accidental' forced upgrades you have to be very naive. A company this big and this developed in the OS / patching world, doesn't make those kind of mistakes over and over. Give it two years, and let's see where they go with it. I have a feeling all those 'free' upgrades are going to cost a lot more in the long run.+-

All that being said I plan to do what bystander said. I also have a secondary system that doesn't get used for much that I will throw it on to play with. As for anything I actually use daily, it won't be going on them any time soon, most likely some time after the 'free' upgrade is gone if at all.

I have 2 specialized systems one on XP and one on 7, but those stay off the internet. They won't get upgrades. They only get patched if some breaking bug is found (which doesn't happen very often).
Speculation is fine, but understand I find what you wrote paranoid. IOW, it is possible that you are correct, not probable imo.

And thanks for the backhanded insult to all us running 10. Evidently none of us are capable of actually using a PC . :thumbsdown: Do your thing, but there is no need to belittle/ad hom those of us that use 10.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
22,723
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and before we get any further off topic. Remember this is PC gaming forum, you should constrain your remarks to that topic. I will do the same. As I am just as guilty of covering area not pertinent to the topic.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,794
825
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Speculation is fine, but understand I find what you wrote paranoid. IOW, it is possible that you are correct, not probable imo.

And thanks for the backhanded insult to all us running 10. Evidently none of us are capable of actually using a PC . :thumbsdown: Do your thing, but there is no need to belittle/ad hom those of us that use 10.
Wasn't meant as an insult, at least not how I think you took it. I was responding to your (and others) comments about DX12 as some requirement that is needed ASAP because I see that all over the place, and it simply isn't a compelling reason in the near future (for gaming) as I see it to rush to 10. Again, not an insult, just a difference of opinion. The rest, well that is just my thoughts on the future.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
22,723
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Wasn't meant as an insult, at least not how I think you took it. I was responding to your (and others) comments about DX12 as some requirement that is needed ASAP because I see that all over the place, and it simply isn't a compelling reason in the near future (for gaming) as I see it to rush to 10. Again, not an insult, just a difference of opinion. The rest, well that is just my thoughts on the future.
Fair enough. :) But let's keep this about 10 for PC gaming.
 

nightspydk

Senior member
Sep 7, 2012
304
0
0
There we go again figuring ways to avoid the windows bloatware that just seems to pile up. Its a neverending story. Trying to rediscover our dos roots where we still felt in control. In a few years we'll all agree windows 10 was awesome. Personally ill stick with windows 7 hehe.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
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Until an update comes along and Win10 forceably uninstalls that start menu during the patch. So far I remain unconvinced that the 8.1/10 desktop UI design is in anyway better or faster than the 7 and earlier designs. The new stuff is still hybrid OS insanity that can't decide what it wants to be, besides tracking your data and selling you stuff for your "Free" upgrade.

You forget some of those Start Menu companies actually work or partners with Microsoft(ie Stardock), also Win7 has tracking just like Win10, besides not a big deal, you get more spyware when you go outside in the real world ie shopping, drinking etc....

Win10 knows what it is, ie OS that handles anything, Win7 is an old relic desktop PC OS on its way out, hardware and modern times/needs change, remember that.
My Bitdefender Total Security 2016 says my Win10 is clean, so don't know what you are worried about unless you have some pirate or illegal software on your PC.

Also being this is the gaming forum, Win10 is the way to go for gaming, DX12 is the way forward, Win7 is on its way out, sooner or later you have to deal with Win7 EOL and nothing will stop progress.

As a gamer I'm 100% happy with Win10 for PC gaming, that as a free upgrade says it all.
For DX12 gaming only choice is Win10.

You want to stick with Win7 fine, but in the near future don't bitch and moan when you don't get latest game features or games that are made more for DX12/Win10 then Win7.

Microsoft can't do much more, already gave most users free upgrade...Personally sooner Win7 dies the better(speaking as a PC gamer since DOS 6.22 days).

I'll say PC gamers should be use to upgrading/updating, it comes with the job(I know I'm).
 
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cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
26,826
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There we go again figuring ways to avoid the windows bloatware that just seems to pile up. Its a neverending story. Trying to rediscover our dos roots where we still felt in control. In a few years we'll all agree windows 10 was awesome. Personally ill stick with windows 7 hehe.

I had more crashes in win7 than 8 or 10 and they are faster too. I couldn't wait to ditch 7 for the better memory management in 8.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
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I've only had one issue with crashing in Win10, and it was from the same game that was in Beta. After the next game patch, I had no more crashes. Win7 had almost no crashes too.

I do have one weird bug with Win10 that hasn't be completely resolved, and that is sometimes my tiled Start Menu goes transparent about once a week. Adjusting start preferences for icons seems to fix it, that or a reboot.
 

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,722
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Or, right-click and:
But if you prefer to organize your programs within folders instead of icons, Win10 doesn't allow any customization to the program folders in the start menu so you can't create, move, nest folders and you are stuck with the list of programs in alphabetical order. Classic start gave back the old functionality and more.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
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But if you prefer to organize your programs within folders instead of icons, Win10 doesn't allow any customization to the program folders in the start menu so you can't create, move, nest folders and you are stuck with the list of programs in alphabetical order. Classic start gave back the old functionality and more.
You can do all that to the tiled ones that are "pinned", just not to the list of all programs.

Now before you go poo poo on the idea of using the pinned location, because you probably reserved that area in the past for your most commonly used apps. In Win10, that area can be as large as your whole desktop, so you have more than enough room for everything you use and hardly ever use.
 
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JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
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You can do all that to the tiled ones that are "pinned", just not to the list of all programs.

Now before you go poo poo on the idea of using the pinned location, because you probably reserved that area in the past for your most commonly used apps. In Win10, that area can be as large as your whole desktop, so you have more than enough room for everything you use and hardly ever use.
Tiles are awful. It's a shame you can't pin anything as a non-tile.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
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Tiles are awful. It's a shame you can't pin anything as a non-tile.
You can still put your stuff on the taskbar and desktop ie short cuts just like in Win8,7,Vista,XP etc so quite a few options.
I've all my games organised anyway from A to Z in Win10 Start Menu, most are easy to run with just a right click on the Steam or Origin icon on taskbar if its active.

I would like to see more customisation as well but then you would get some users saying its too bloated, can't win both ways.
As a gamers OS its fine ie all drivers are auto update anyway(still a few users out there that don't know how to install drivers), so users just have to worry about playing the game in question.
 
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bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
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Tiles are awful. It's a shame you can't pin anything as a non-tile.
What is so awful about tiles anyway? I'm pretty sure this is more about what you are used to, than how they work.

I'm curious what the big deal with hating changes to the UI. Are younger people more resistant, as they haven't known much else like us older users, who went from DOS, Win 3.1 (depending on person. I really didn't use it), Win 95 to XP and today, with some Unix (not Lunix) in there? Or is it the younger people, who are more willing to change to new ways of doing things?
 
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Carfax83

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2010
6,055
858
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Win 7 is good and more affordable. But does Win 10 offer reasons to use it instead? Is DirectX 12 only Win 10 and a reason to use it for gaming?
Wow, is this even a question?! I would even recommend Windows 8.1 over Windows 7, let alone Windows 10 which is even better than Windows 8.1!

Reasons to pick Windows 10 over Windows 7:

1) More secure

2) Better performance for general computing and gaming

3) Better resource management

4) DX12, which is the future of PC gaming

5) It's free!
 

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