Will Western Europe ever be Islamized?

[Blue_Max]

No.



From the 2011 census Muslims make up 4.4% of the population in the UK and you think in 4 generations that will exceed 50%? Just for reference Christians made up 59.5%, non-religious 25.7%, not stated was 7.2% and the rest was 3.2%

According to the BSA survey 2013 those changed to 50.6% for non-religious, 41.7% for Christian, 4.6% for Muslim and the rest was 3.1%.

In 4 more generations it will be a non-religious majority by far.

Again, look to the French city of Marseilles which is about 40% muslim right now. It's also been named the most dangerous city in Europe because of it. Within a generation, it WILL be muslim majority... so let's just sit back and watch this train wreck happen - show the whole world what they can expect - then fight it with everything we've got.

(I'd like to say the calls to islam reform might be heeded, but it's just... unlikely.)

 

[Orignal Earl]

Again, look to the French city of Marseilles which is about 40% muslim right now. It's also been named the most dangerous city in Europe because of it. Within a generation, it WILL be muslim majority... so let's just sit back and watch this train wreck happen - show the whole world what they can expect - then fight it with everything we've got.

(I'd like to say the calls to islam reform might be heeded, but it's just... unlikely.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marseille

Major religious communities in Marseille include :

Roman Catholic (405,000)
Muslim (150,000)
Armenian Apostolic (80,000)
Jewish (80,000, making Marseille the third largest urban Jewish community in Europe)
Hindus (4,000)
Protestant (20,000)
Eastern Orthodox (10,000)
Buddhist (3,000).[57]

That high crime rate must be because of the Catholics, that rate still don't come anywhere near a huge amount of American cities though.
Some US cities are the most dangerous cities in the world, none of which are in Europe

 

[Timorous]

Again, look to the French city of Marseilles which is about 40% muslim right now. It's also been named the most dangerous city in Europe because of it. Within a generation, it WILL be muslim majority... so let's just sit back and watch this train wreck happen - show the whole world what they can expect - then fight it with everything we've got.

(I'd like to say the calls to islam reform might be heeded, but it's just... unlikely.)

As Earl stated that is bogus.

850k population.

752k are religious and 150k are Muslim. That is 17.6% of the population or 19.9% of the religious population.

The fact that youth unemployment is at 40% could very well be a contributing factor to the crime rate there rather than the religious make up of the population.

 

[Blue_Max]

As Earl stated that is bogus.

850k population.

752k are religious and 150k are Muslim. That is 17.6% of the population or 19.9% of the religious population.

The fact that youth unemployment is at 40% could very well be a contributing factor to the crime rate there rather than the religious make up of the population.

If you're going to go by Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_the_European_Union_by_Muslim_population

There's three different census amounts, ranging from 20-35%.
Keep digging for yourself in regard to tensions and crime, etc.

 

[Carfax83]

No, then you would completely miss the point. Your reply only helps me to see how you end up wrong

Sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about. Your original statement assumes that the remaining Muslim countries are "strong allies" of Israel.

What evidence is there that Pakistan, Turkey, Morocco etcetera are strong allies of Israel?

 

[Timorous]

If you're going to go by Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_the_European_Union_by_Muslim_population

There's three different census amounts, ranging from 20-35%.
Keep digging for yourself in regard to tensions and crime, etc.

it is 20-25% by the sources. The NY times article where the original 35% figure was sourced has been changed to 25% in the text.

It is also based on data from 2009 or earlier where other sources for the 25% figure are more recent.

None of the sources here seem to show the data is from census data though so how accurate it is I have no clue. You can call the range 20-25% if you like.

The other thing to point out is some of those percentages in that table are totally inaccurate. Take the Birmingham UK one for 26.9%. The source for that is the 2011 Census but when you actually look at the data shown in the note it is actually 21.8% so where they get the 26.9% figure from for the wiki article I have no clue.

I guess that means unless you are going to use actual census data, or other reputable survey data for this it rules wiki out as a reliable source.

Anyway as I stated the UK will be majority non religious within the next 4 generations, in fact it will probably be majority non religious by the next census. It has been hovering around 50% non religious for the past few years based on the BSA survey data and that will only grow by the 2021 Census.

As far as Marseilles is concerned I think I have shown that your 40% figure was total bull and even the 35% figure is incorrect. Based on the data we do have 25% seems to be the upper bound which puts into a similar rank as Birmingham yet the crime statistics for both cities are miles apart. If it is the Muslims causing the problem why does Birmingham have less crime than average in the UK? Perhaps it has more to do with local economies and jobs than religious beliefs that lead to crime?

From a UK perspective the troubles was worse and that was between Protestants and Catholics.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about. Your original statement assumes that the remaining Muslim countries are "strong allies" of Israel.

What evidence is there that Pakistan, Turkey, Morocco etcetera are strong allies of Israel?

I said Israel has several Muslim majority countries as allies.
If you take seven (attackers) away from 50 (Muslim majority countries), you have 43 left.

 

[trenchfoot]

Hmmmm...ultimately, some very true believers feel that you either convert or they will kill you for not believing as they do. And because their faith is so passionately resolute, and because their faith allows them to kill others who threaten their beliefs and allow them to martyr themselves into heaven while taking out as many unbelievers as possible, why, I'd hazard a guess and say yes.

 

[Blue_Max]

I just can't believe that a couple of you are trying to take the heat off the violent muslims in Marseilles and pin the violence on catholics instead.

That's a desperate stretch.

 

[redzo]

Unemployment and poverty for God's sake(get the irony?)!!!
I find fascinating that you keep associating crime with religious belief in contrast with our current secular modern living.

 

[Timorous]

I just can't believe that a couple of you are trying to take the heat off the violent muslims in Marseilles and pin the violence on catholics instead.

That's a desperate stretch.

What on earth are you talking about?

To say that the Muslim population in Marseilles is the cause of violence when there are plenty of other factors such as high unemployment, very high youth unemployment, drugs, gangs etc is one hell of a stretch.

I was not pinning violence in Marseilles on Catholics, I was pointing out that the troubles in Ireland during the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's were perpetrated by Catholics and Protestants. The point being that anybody, of any religion can be a nut job extremist and it is not exclusive to the Muslims.

The fact is in 4 generations most of Europe will be non-religious majorities, it is already in the UK, Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark and that demographic will grow faster than any other over the next 100 years.

 

[cabri]

Israel has several Muslim majority countries as major allies.

Egypt and Jordan have peace treaties.

Saudi is smart enough to not challenge - Israel is more an enemy of our enemy than an ally.

What other Muslim countries accept Israel?
One way to evaluate is the funding/support for Hamas/Hezbollah or public statements.
Another is to look at the UN votes on resolutions.

 

[Blanky]

I just can't believe that a couple of you are trying to take the heat off the violent muslims in Marseilles and pin the violence on catholics instead.

That's a desperate stretch.

But the crusades!

 

[hal2kilo]

Dont think Europe will accept Ottoman Empire part deux.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
I was not pinning violence in Marseilles on Catholics, I was pointing out that the troubles in Ireland during the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's were perpetrated by Catholics and Protestants. The point being that anybody, of any religion can be a nut job extremist and it is not exclusive to the Muslims.

I believe it inaccurate to characterize the fighting in Ireland as religious.

Instead, it stems from the colonization of Northern Ireland by lowlander Scots beginning in early 1600's. King James wanted to expand his empire by gaining control of Ireland. Essentially, the English thought the Irish savages etc. They did not speak English and the English couldn't control them, nor deal with them. Ireland at that time was fragmented and had many different kings/chieftains.

To put it briefly, over the next 90 years or so Scots were sent by the English to force the Irish from their lands, and they did.

What we have is a long simmering battle over land etc. and all that it entails.

Irish were, and still are, Catholic. The Scots were, and still are, Protestant. Since by the 1960's etc all the Scottish descendants were technically Irish, the easy shorthand term is Protestants versus Catholics.

When you see an Irishman with a last name beginning with a "Mc" (like the famous golfer Rory McIlroy) you're looking at a descendant from Scotland. True Irish are "O'" something.

Fern

 

[Carfax83]

I said Israel has several Muslim majority countries as allies.
If you take seven (attackers) away from 50 (Muslim majority countries), you have 43 left.

Why don't you specify what Muslim majority countries are Israel's allies?

You've been dodging the question for two pages now..

 

[Carfax83]

When you see an Irishman with a last name beginning with a "Mc" (like the famous golfer Rory McIlroy) you're looking at a descendant from Scotland. True Irish are "O'" something.

Fern

Aren't the Irish and the Scots both Celtic peoples?

 

[Blue_Max]

But the crusades!

Heh... another good one. 1/100th of the scale, yet somehow "morally equivalent"... or even "worse".

 

[Orignal Earl]

Why don't you specify what Muslim majority countries are Israel's allies?

You've been dodging the question for two pages now..

I like trying to get people to do their own homework.
It's sad that so many posters form all these wacky ideas without any research.

The first thing I would do with the list of Muslim majority countries is cross out the Arab ones. Right off the bat, I see Israel is a major arms supplier of Azerbaijan (home of the world famous Mountain Jews). Then I look around in that area and see Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Maldives, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan all have relations with Israel.
Then I'd take a peek at Africa, and see more there.

 

[railer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marseille

Some US cities are the most dangerous cities in the world, none of which are in Europe

I will applaud for for your trolling efforts in this thread, even if your results have been poor.
Pretty slow up there in the wintertime, eh?
You should get a snowmobile....help you pass the time, get you out of the house, etc.

 

[TreVader]

Israel has shit for allies in general. Nobody likes them, Muslim countries are just the most vocal about it because they are the ones who deal with Israeli aggression.


Back in the 80s Israel allied with apartheid South Africa, and they still have good relations. They both had very similar problems involving brown people who they don't consider full citizens of their county. They were best buds, like Saddam and Assad (Iraq and Syria). It's a heartwarming story.

Then people in the 90s started talking about "rights" and "racism" and "suffrage". Now only Israel gets to be an apartheid state

 

[Orignal Earl]

I will applaud for for your trolling efforts in this thread, even if your results have been poor.
Pretty slow up there in the wintertime, eh?
You should get a snowmobile....help you pass the time, get you out of the house, etc.

Is there something wrong with my link, or are you just trolling?

 

[Fern]

Aren't the Irish and the Scots both Celtic peoples?

Yep. Fratricide is a b!tch.

At times they've worked together. Some Irish kings used Scots as mercenaries. Then again they long fought over the Stone of Destiny, which is said to determine the real King of the Celts.

The Irish consider the Scots to be Mudbloods due to mixing with non-Celts such as Vikings.

Fern

 

[Victorian Gray]

Yep. Fratricide is a b!tch.

At times they've worked together. Some Irish kings used Scots as mercenaries. Then again they long fought over the Stone of Destiny, which is said to determine the real King of the Celts.

The Irish consider the Scots to be Mudbloods due to mixing with non-Celts such as Vikings.

Fern

Too much Harry Potter?

 

[Orignal Earl]

The Irish consider the Scots to be Mudbloods due to mixing with non-Celts such as Vikings.

Fern

The Vikings conducted extensive raids in Ireland at first they founded Limerick in 812, then established a settlement near Waterford in 853, invaded Dublin and maintained control until 1169, and founded trading ports in Cork in the 9th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_Age#Ireland

The Irish are very aware of all the mixing they did with the Vikings, weird that you say they have a problem with the Scots for it