Will usuing the Smith machine decrease gains?

[z1ggy]

I've found lately when I go to lift, it is by myself. Consequently, that means I find myself using the smith machine a lot because I have no spotter and I want to be able to push myself as best I can. Since the machine sort of "guides" the weight along the path, is it causing me to use less of my stabilizing muscles which in turn is not letting me get max gains? So basically it boils down to using the smith machine with more weight then free weights, but not using those muscles, or using less weight on something like bench press, but using all those free range muscles. Which is better off for somebody like me, a 22 year old male who is trying to get a little bit more muscle mass but also get leaner and look more muscular, too.

 

[rasczak]

what lifts are you doing with the smith?

I lift by myself, and am able to do all of the lifts without a spotter to guide me. I do watch how much I lift and make sure that I am confident in my ability to lift that much.

 

[polarmystery]

The only good thing a smith machine is good for is a highly decorated towel rack.

Go for bulk, then lean out. Unless you are incredibly strict and have a lot of time on your hands, gaining clean muscle (ie: virtually no fat gain) is exceedingly difficult if not impossible. You will gain fat.

 

[z1ggy]

I use it for mainly bench press and sometimes squats. It's not that I need a spotter to guide me, its more for the event of my muscle suddenly giving out or tire and I can't lift the weight any more and I drop it on my chest or something. So to not have to worry about that, yes I do weight I can confident I can do...but am I able to improve my strength as quickly with the smith as opposed to free weights?

 

[Whisper]

I use it for mainly bench press and sometimes squats. It's not that I need a spotter to guide me, its more for the event of my muscle suddenly giving out or tire and I can't lift the weight any more and I drop it on my chest or something. So to not have to worry about that, yes I do weight I can confident I can do...but am I able to improve my strength as quickly with the smith as opposed to free weights?

My knee-jerk response would be no, you aren't going to notice quite as many gains with a smith machine as you would with free weights; however, I could be mistaken.

Why not try for dumbbell presses if you aren't able to find a spot for barbell exercises? Or, as another poster suggested, just stick with weight that you can confidently handle for 4-6 reps, although you run the slight risk of--as you've said--having a muscle "give out."

 

[brikis98]

What does your routine look like? That is, what exercises are you doing? Pretty much the only exercise you need a spotter for is the bench press and even that can be done without one by either benching in a power rack with safety rails or using dumbbells. And yes, the smith machine, as most exercise machines, is crap compared to using free weights for a number of reasons:

1. Functional strength: since you don't have to balance/control the weight (or your body) when using a machine, you don't develop the neuro-muscular coordination that you get from using free weights. Therefore, it'll be much harder to apply the strength you build from machines in the real world.

2. More muscle recruitment: it's not that free weights use some kind of special "stabilizer muscles" - any muscle can be a stabilizer depending on the exercise - but that free weight exercises simply use more muscle. Partially this is due to having to balance the weight and partially because machines usually change the technique used in an exercise. The result is that you get much more bang-for-the-buck with free weights in terms of strength & size gained per hour of training.

3. Natural biomechanics: most machines, even adjustable ones, do not allow for proper technique on the exercises. The smith machine is particularly bad: the rails force the bar to travel in a perfectly vertical path. Unfortunately, human biomechanics do not support such a vertical path when squatting or bench pressing - the layout of the bones & muscles requires a little curvature at different parts of the lift. Of course, the smith machine doesn't allow this, so you have to contort your technique to it, which often leads to an inferior workout and injuries. For example, in order to squat in the smith machine, most people end up leaning way back against the bar and cannot get to full depth. This removes most of the engagement of the glutes, hamstrings & back from the exercise, and not only gives a crappy workout, but also puts unhealthy stress on the knees.

 

[z1ggy]

Ok great info! So right now I weigh about 175 or so give or take 2 or 3 pounds ( I was training for a fight so I had cut some weight, I normally walk around at 185 with like 15%-20% body fat). I am looking to gain strength and some mass right now, but not too much.. I am naturally more stocky and thicker, so I don't want to really get much bigger. Mainly I want to gain on my main compound lifts ( bench, squat, cleans/press) and maybe gain a an inch or so to my arms. What type of lifting routines are best suited for this? I've done the 5x5 work out before and lately I have been doing more circuit training in tri-sets due to my fight training.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

What kind of fighting do you do? Where do you train?

 

[z1ggy]

What kind of fighting do you do? Where do you train?

Amateur MMA, I train in Nicholville, NY at Duquette submission fighting. I was all set to fight in the Barre Brawl, in Barre, VT but I dropped last minute because of the insane amounts of school work I have due before finals and lack of time to train. Not really a big deal though, fights pop up all the time.

 

[bommy261]

if your not a girl, u shouldn't be using a smith machine. even then, they are horrible pieces of equipment.

gimme your man card

 

[Red Dawn]

if your not a girl, u shouldn't be using a smith machine. even then, they are horrible pieces of equipment.

gimme your man card

How about you try to take it from him in the Octagon????

 

[brikis98]

Ok great info! So right now I weigh about 175 or so give or take 2 or 3 pounds ( I was training for a fight so I had cut some weight, I normally walk around at 185 with like 15%-20% body fat). I am looking to gain strength and some mass right now, but not too much.. I am naturally more stocky and thicker, so I don't want to really get much bigger. Mainly I want to gain on my main compound lifts ( bench, squat, cleans/press) and maybe gain a an inch or so to my arms. What type of lifting routines are best suited for this? I've done the 5x5 work out before and lately I have been doing more circuit training in tri-sets due to my fight training.

If you are primarily interested in strength/size and are relatively new to lifting, the gold standard is the routine in Starting Strength. The book is also the best resource I've seen for teaching all the lifts. Stronglifts 5x5 is a very similar routine that is also worth looking into.

However, since you are an MMA fighter, you may also want to consider Crossfit. It's a workout routine used by the military, police, firefighters and MMA folks to develop "general physical preparedness" (GPP): that is, Crossfit aims to develop all aspects of fitness, including not just strength, but also power, speed, endurance, stamina, agility, coordination, etc. The workouts are constantly varied and include a little bit of everything: weight lifting, running, gymnastics, climbing, rowing, kettlebells, and so on. For more info, check out What is Fitness?, What is Crossfit?, Start Here, and the FAQ. Also, check out the Crossfit messageboard for lots of threads on combining MMA training with Crossfit.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Amateur MMA, I train in Nicholville, NY at Duquette submission fighting. I was all set to fight in the Barre Brawl, in Barre, VT but I dropped last minute because of the insane amounts of school work I have due before finals and lack of time to train. Not really a big deal though, fights pop up all the time.

I was just browsing around the website, you guys look to have a good crew. Train hard, lift heavy, eat clean, get enough sleep, and good luck

 

[IceBergSLiM]

just say no to the smith machine.

 

[SlitheryDee]

There's nothing better than a smith machine for inverted rows.

 

[z1ggy]

If you are primarily interested in strength/size and are relatively new to lifting, the gold standard is the routine in Starting Strength. The book is also the best resource I've seen for teaching all the lifts. Stronglifts 5x5 is a very similar routine that is also worth looking into.

However, since you are an MMA fighter, you may also want to consider Crossfit. It's a workout routine used by the military, police, firefighters and MMA folks to develop "general physical preparedness" (GPP): that is, Crossfit aims to develop all aspects of fitness, including not just strength, but also power, speed, endurance, stamina, agility, coordination, etc. The workouts are constantly varied and include a little bit of everything: weight lifting, running, gymnastics, climbing, rowing, kettlebells, and so on. For more info, check out What is Fitness?, What is Crossfit?, Start Here, and the FAQ. Also, check out the Crossfit messageboard for lots of threads on combining MMA training with Crossfit.

Yeah I have heard about Crossfit, actually there is a gym in my home town dedicated to Crossfit, appropriately named "Albany Crossfit". When I graduate in a few weeks, I might check it out while I am home to see what it's all about.

For the remaining few weeks, what routine do you think I should focus on? I will only be sparring twice a week, and probably not too hard, so I want to focus on lifting. I might start back with the 5x5 routine, even though I'm not a beginner I like the process.

 

[brikis98]

Yeah I have heard about Crossfit, actually there is a gym in my home town dedicated to Crossfit, appropriately named "Albany Crossfit". When I graduate in a few weeks, I might check it out while I am home to see what it's all about.

For the remaining few weeks, what routine do you think I should focus on? I will only be sparring twice a week, and probably not too hard, so I want to focus on lifting. I might start back with the 5x5 routine, even though I'm not a beginner I like the process.

You don't have to go to a Crossfit gym to do Crossfit... You can do it on your own and substitute exercises when you are missing some sort of equipment.

As for pure lifting, as I said, the gold standard is Starting Strength. It's actually a 3x5, which will probably work better than a 5x5 if you have some experience. It's also dead simple: go 3 times per week on non consecutive days, alternating workout A (squat, press, deadlift) and workout B (squat, bench press, power clean). Every time you finish the 3x5, add 5-10lbs to the exercise next time. Toss in one accessory exercise (pull-ups, dips, sit-ups) at the end of each workout if you want. Eat big and you'll get strong in a hurry.

 

[z1ggy]

You don't have to go to a Crossfit gym to do Crossfit... You can do it on your own and substitute exercises when you are missing some sort of equipment.

As for pure lifting, as I said, the gold standard is Starting Strength. It's actually a 3x5, which will probably work better than a 5x5 if you have some experience. It's also dead simple: go 3 times per week on non consecutive days, alternating workout A (squat, press, deadlift) and workout B (squat, bench press, power clean). Every time you finish the 3x5, add 5-10lbs to the exercise next time. Toss in one accessory exercise (pull-ups, dips, sit-ups) at the end of each workout if you want. Eat big and you'll get strong in a hurry.

Ok cool! thanks. As for eating... I really only eat protein shakes ( syntha-6 I think its called) chicken, fish and fruits and veggies. For liquids I drink 2% milk, gaterade and water. I know I should be eating like 6 times a day or so, but that's sort of hard for me to do. I hear you can take in your body weight equiv. in grams or protein per day when you are lifting heavy. Anything else I should be doing eating wise?

 

[brikis98]

I really only eat protein shakes ( syntha-6 I think its called) chicken, fish and fruits and veggies. For liquids I drink 2% milk, gaterade and water.

The fat loss sticky has a lot of good diet advice. The general gist is that you need to align your caloric intake with your goals and should focus your diet on "real food" - items that are whole/raw/unprocessed and don't come in packages - and avoid processed "food products" as much as possible.

I know I should be eating like 6 times a day or so, but that's sort of hard for me to do.

You don't have to eat 6 times a day. The idea that it helps your metabolism is a myth. It does help some people stay full, which is helpful when trying to cut weight, but that's about it.

I hear you can take in your body weight equiv. in grams or protein per day when you are lifting heavy. Anything else I should be doing eating wise?

It depends on your goals. If you are trying to bulk, eat a caloric surplus and around 1g of protein per pound of lean body mass. If you are cutting, eat a caloric deficit and eat slightly more protein (up to 1g per pound of body weight) to help prevent loss of muscle mass. See the fat loss sticky for more info.

 

[bommy261]

How about you try to take it from him in the Octagon????

my hats off to ya.. i want to get into MMA in the near future.. i don't know how UFC fighters walk around with balls that big.

 

[rcpratt]

Smith machine is my only option for bench press (they only have dumbells up to 40ish), deadlift, and rows at my current gym. Not ideal, but it works. And only a month until I move and join a real gym.

 

[bommy261]

Smith machine is my only option for bench press (they only have dumbells up to 40ish), deadlift, and rows at my current gym. Not ideal, but it works. And only a month until I move and join a real gym.

only 40 lb dumbbells... wow, what a crappy gym

 

[Howard]

There's nothing better than a smith machine for inverted rows.

My standard squat rack lets me do those. I just hang the bar from the safety rails.

 

[alkemyst]

People hate on the smith machine. I find them great for many things. When I was fresh back to the gym testing my elbow post-rehab I stuck to smith machine for OH Presses and flat barbell bench.

Dumbbells IMHO are a better alternative most of the time.

I will still use the smith machine to put up some final bench presses here and there when I am already fatigued.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

People hate on the smith machine. I find them great for many things. When I was fresh back to the gym testing my elbow post-rehab I stuck to smith machine for OH Presses and flat barbell bench.

Dumbbells IMHO are a better alternative most of the time.

I will still use the smith machine to put up some final bench presses here and there when I am already fatigued.

That's exactly the purpose of a smith machine. However, very few people who use the smith machine use it for rehab. It's built with rehab patients/clients in mind, not for healthy individuals trying to increase their squat.