Will the Intel SE440BX motherboard support anything faster than a PII 450?

[Emos]

My rig is beginning to hit middle-age: I just replaced my TNT video card with an Elsa Gladiac (doing great with it BTW) and I was taking a look at upgrading the CPU. DELL tech support told me that my motherboard won't support anything faster than the PII 450 that I already have....so I'm coming here to find the truth! TIA

Here's the motherboard and other info:

Board: Intel Corporation SE440BX AA696089-408
Serial Number: 00028498124658AS02YG
Bus Clock: 100 megahertz
BIOS: Intel Corp. 4S4EB0X1.10A.0019.P09 08/14/98
Memory: 128 MB RAM
Hard Drive: 14.4 GB IBM (7200 rpm)

 

[igowerf]

My Dell Dimension XPS R400 (P2 400) is currently running a Celeron 533A (coppermine variety) so I'm pretty sure it supports higher clocked P3s. The BIOS says its a Pentium Pro 500 but WCPUID says Celeron 533. It uses the Dell A13 BIOS. I heard that higher BIOS revisions actually REMOVE support for higher clocked P3s. Don't know if it's true though.

 

[Sunny129]

Dell will tell you all sorts of BS just to get you to spend more on upgrading. and with a warrantee and tech support as nice as theirs, who wouldnt keep doing business with Dell? well i'm one of them. i got fed up at one point with Dell, so i upgraded on my own by buying a few new components and basically making myself a custom system out of a Dell PC. but seriously, i want kidding about their great warrantees and tech support. i still use their tech support when i need it...but thats only b/c they dont know that i completely voided my warrantee by getting a new mobo, CPU, video card, and SDRAM. as long as you dont tell them what you werent suppose to change and remember your original system setup to a degree, you'll be alright. my old monitor wouldnt work with my new Voodoo 5 5500, so i called tech support and told them it just stopped working (and they assumed i was still using my original video card...if they ask, just tell them you are) and they sent me a new one after a bit of troubleshooting and failing to identify the problem. anyways, back to the point that Dell will BS you just to get you to spend more money on an upgrade, its true. however, just b/c one person can run their celeron 533 on an intel SE440BX doesnt mean you can run a P3 800 on it. so i wouldnt take chances despite my disbelief in what Dell is telling you about the SE440BX not being able to run CPUs above 450 mHz.

 

[Spoooon]

My old BX mobo has multipliers up to 5.5 and bus speeds up to 133.3. I haven't tried overclocking on it yet. Just for kicks, I was going to set the multiplier to 2.5x133.3.

 

[Godsend1]

I have an ASUS P2B with a c566@850 in it.

 

[Sunny129]

yeah, but you're using an ASUS board. ASUS mobos were meant to be OCed. he may be able to run a CPU rated higher than intel (or Dell) specs indicate, such as igowerf running his celeron 533 mHz on the SE400BX, which supposedly runs nothing higher than a P2 450 mHz. but he'll never get an OC out of it, let alone one as good as yours. a c566 @ 850 is an excellent OC by the way.

 

[Poof]

The BX chipset should support it but one of the main issues distinguishing the PII & PIII katmai 450s vs the cumines, is voltage. That is, the cumines run from 1.65V (lower speed CPUs) to 1.70V (higher speed CPUs). If there's no way to step the voltage down in the slot via a jumper or BIOS setting in order to handle the cumine (unless you have a FC on a sloket that can do this via a VRM), then it probably won't even boot (or may even fry the CPU... )

 

[UltraWide]

the intel mobo dell uses supports P3's up to 800mhz with the latest bios revision. A11.
i know b/c i just upgraded my sister's P3 500mhz dell XPS T500.
good luck!

 

[UltraWide]

just make sure u upgrade to the latest bios and you should be fine. it's almost as easy as switching the cpu's except for the retention clips dell uses.

 

[Sunny129]

UltraWide, are you sure your sister's mobo was an intel SE440BX? you said you upgraded her XPS T500. we are all talking about the XPS R series, not the T series. Dell sold the R series in three flavours, 350, 400, and 450 mHz. and these were slot-1 P2 CPUs w/ the Dechutes core...pretty old stuff. now i think the first P3 was 450 mHz, but the first P3s were also of the Katmai core, so once again, i dont know if you can make the same upgrade you made with an XPS R series. If you were talking to someone who also had the XPS T series, i wouldnt hesitate to back you up in your upgrading experience. but unless you know for a fact the both the R series and T series use the exact same mobo (intel SE440BX), i think trying to make that upgrade would be risky.

 

[Emos]

I really want to thank everyone for their input thus far...it's really appreciated! Sunny, it is the Dell XPS R series with the PII 450 CPU. I talked about it with a co-worker (also a Anandtech member) and he told me that the best thing to do when the time comes to upgrade the processor is to put in a new motherboard.
I guess that a motherboard upgrade is something that I'm still a bit nervous about (being rather new at all this) but I'll definitely start doing my homework at this site!

 

[Poof]

now i think the first P3 was 450 mHz, but the first P3s were also of the Katmai core, so once again, i dont know if you can make the same upgrade you made with an XPS R series

Yes the first P3s were 450 katmais (I have one that I'm working on right now at work). That's why I said what I said about the voltage... If there was a way to step the volts down and the BIOS can be updated with the new CPUID, then it may be do-able but... it's questionable.

And regarding upgrading the machine with a new mobo - you may want to check the PS connectors for that Dell. Alot of OEMs put some wild proprietary power connectors on their PSs, eg., I think it may have been Dell who uses or used to use, a "standard" but modified ATX PS connector that has no 5V connection, just 3V & 12V or something...

 

[Sunny129]

Emos, i completely understand your upgrade situation. i dont know if i specifically mentioned the model Dell i used to have, but it was a Dimension XPS R350 (same as yours, only w/ a 350 mHz CPU ass oppsed to your 400 mHz). so when i upgraded the CPU, i also had to get a new mobo. and Poof is on the right track about the power connectors. i dont know about the main mobo power connector, but i do know that the front panel connectors in the front of the case (the ones that lead to the power and reset switches and LEDs) are consolidated into one 20 pin ribbon. not only will that ribbon not fit onto any other mobo's front panel pin array, but the ribbon isnt even long enough to reach the front panel pin array on most other mobos...which leaves you with the dilemma of gettinga new case. i'll list the essentials to my upgrade (assuming a new P3 CPU is in order) since we basically had the same Dell PCs:

1) new mobo
2) new case

i got an ASUS CUSL2 mobo to run the P3 700E i got. i also got 2 sticks of 128 MB PC133 rev3 SDRAM from Mushkin. you can move the RAM from your Dell into the new system, but beware its only PC100. the Award BIOS that comes w/ the CUSL2 allows the memory to run @ 3/4 FSB though. i'm not sure about other BIOS's, so i would make sure which mobos support such options...otherwise i would upgrade to PC133 SDRAM. besides the Voodoo5 550 AGP (which i got well be my decision to upgrade), a new CPU, mobo, and RAM were the three things i got.

so dont think that you can skimp on any of these things while upgrading. a new case is a must unless you get another intel mobo, b/c the front panel connectors of Dell cases (w/ the 20 pin ribbon cable) are unique only to intel mobos. it wont fit on another board. and i wouldnt get another intel mobo anyways b/c they are IMPOSSIBLE to OC. most other cases have separate cables for the power switch, reset switch, sleep switch, and all the LEDs that go along with them, so you wont have the compatibility problems that you would have with trying to put a new mobo into a Dell case.

i just used the other components (sound card, fax/modem, NIC, etc.) from my Dell to finish off my custom system. my upgraded system is now a P3 700E that OCs to 1050 mHz @ the default Vcore of 1.7v. remember that high quality RAM is in order if you plan to OC much. if you have anymore questions, dont hesitate to ask.

 

[masterskartrg]

i just upgraded my friends se440bx with a P3 700e slot and everything seem to went fine,so if you were to ask me n/p,but if you plan overclocking the P3 there would be no luck as i've tried everything if someone comes up with a way to o/c it plz tell me too.

 

[Sunny129]

well there you have it. masterskartrg has run a 700E (slot-1 of course) on the intel SE440BX. so we know that both Dell and Intel are bullsh!tting us when they say the highest CPU that can run on this board is a P2 450 mHz. but once again, dont expect to be able to OC on this mobo.

masterskartrg, i thought i mentioned it earlier in the thread, but as i look back i dont see it. the only way to change the FSB on the SE440BXis to shut down, switch a certain jumper on the board to enable "maitenance mode", and reboot. enter the BIOS and another sub-menu will be available. now i've heard that this is the ONLY way to change the FSB in this mobo, but i have also heard that there are only choices between 66 mHz and 100 mHz, as this board was just not meant to be OCed.

 

[Emos]

Sunny, thanks for your explanation of your experiences with your Dell....those are issues that I'll definitely keep in mind.
Masterskartrg, when you upgraded that mobo to a PII 700e, what all was involved? Was is simply 'take out the old processor and insert new one'? Sorry, I guess my 'novice' level of computing is beginning to show! I may be interested in this approach, but I'll have to find out what the current market cost is on the PII 700e and see if the performance/cost curve is worth it.

 

[Sunny129]

Emos, i thik you'll find that the performance cost curve shows that the P3 700E is well worth the purchase. in anandtech's "Weekly CPU & Video Card Price Guide: January 2001 1st Edition" article on the home page, the 700E is priced at $145. by the way, you never mentioned if you planned on OCing. it would be a shame not to, since the 700E has proven itself to be intel's best pentium OCer. just keep in mind though that the SE440BX will not allow you ro OC. i think with the low price of the 700E right now, you could also get a good OCing mobo w/out spending too much money.

 

[Flatus]

When I bought my 440BX, there were two flavors of the board. The
SE440BX-2 is supposedly the version that will go over 450. My -2 model runs 24x7 with a 800-MHz PIII CuMine.
http://developer.intel.com/design/motherbd/se2/se2_inst.htm#1c