Will the AARP bring down the USA like the Unions did to GM?

[JEDI]

(I posted this in OT, but got locked. Guess this belongs in P&N )

Social Security + Medicare grow automatically with average wages or health care costs, which generally increase faster than inflation. Thus, these programs, which require no annual renewal, consume greater and greater shares of domestic spending every year.

The 2 obvious solutions is to curb payments and/or raise the elibility age. The AARP is fighting to prevent this.

This reminds me of the Unions fighting to keep all their perks while GM was sinking. It wasn't until GM reached the breaking point and it became a crisis that something was done.

It's also kinda like NYC going bankrupt and having a financial control board take over to make cuts, and fire people because the elected politicians at that time were spineless to make hard choices.

For the USA, i predict nothing is going to happen to solve our problems with the aging population till it becomes a crisis where we can't borrow any more $, and default on something, like a soldier's paycheck. (Military spending is the next highest in spending)


Do you think there has to be an IMMEDIATE crisis before anything gets done about our govt's out of control costs?

Why/Why not?

 

[dmcowen674]

Just let it go bankrupt and let Mexico take it over.

That's what's taking place anyway.

 

[Genx87]

Nothing will happen until it has to happen. IE years too late to help.

Medicare and SS will bankrupt us in a big way, no doubt about it. And yes, AARP will get their memebers in a rile using scare tactics and fearmongering.

Even the whiff of SS reform got the grannys in a state of paranoia that Bush was personally going to toss her out into the streets.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Maybe we can hold an Americathon?

 

[1EZduzit]

Viva the revolution.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Just let it go bankrupt and let Mexico take it over.

That's what's taking place anyway.

Says he who thinks he has what it takes to be a prez. Scary sh1t.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Just let it go bankrupt and let Mexico take it over.

That's what's taking place anyway.

Before that happens, we can delay it as Europe has. Just continuously raise taxes each time we near bankruptcy and import a foreign work force to pay your bills. The dire eventualities will be left to our kids, but we?ll escape all responsibility in fixing the problem.

 

[ayabe]

We could shave hundreds of billions off of Medicare if we would revise the bill so collective bargaining could occur, competition is not working in this case.

Legalize pot and tax it, SS will be solvent forever.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Now for the reality check:

1) SS is NOT bankrupting America. In fact, it currently subsidizes the fiscal mismanagement of the Bush Regime. But the program is not sustainable (30years+) without significant structural changes: removing income cap, means testing, increasing retirement age, and possibly reducing COLA. Those reforms could easily make the program solvent for multiple generations . . . assuming the Republicans and Democrats stop raiding it to pay for bridges to nowhere, Iowa rainforest, Nebraska ethanol, and the war on Middle East dirt.

2) Medicare is indeed a disaster. Fortunately, the Republicans came to the rescue by passing the Medicare Modernization Act, which . . . Jesus Friggin' Christ . . . how did THAT happen?! Curiously, one of the best things to do for Medicare has nothing to do with Medicare. We need fundamental reforms in our healthcare system to shift the emphasis to prevention of disease and management of chronic disease as opposed to interventional care.

Nothing is going to happen on either front b/c most of the decision-making power lies with politicians and corporations. They are fat and happy with the status quo.

AARP isn't even in the top 5 when it comes to special interests that will keep this future trainwreck on its way to disaster:
1) politicians
2) insurance companies
3) hospitals (for-profit)
4) drug companies
5) other industries that feed directly from the healthcare/SS trough (long-term care facilities)

 

[Starbuck1975]

Carousel for Baby Boomers is the only solution.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: JEDI
Will the AARP bring down the USA like the Unions did to GM?

I think this is called "push polling." Your premise forces selection based on the presumption that "the unions" brought down GM and that the interests of AARP are contrary to the interests of the country.

Regardless of other factors, GM is as much responsible for its problems as anyone, due to years of manufacturing and promoting piss poorly designed gas guzzlers. Similarly, the financial shortfall in Social Security is as much due to Congressional "borrowing" from the fund as it is to other problems.

Now, anything and everything we might want to pursue in the best interests of our nation has been compromised by our Moron In Chief who has squandered trillions of dollars in present and future funds in an elective war based on lies, and, with the exception of himself and a few of his ultra-rich buddies, he's left the rest of us holding the bag.

 

[piasabird]

You cant blame social security problems on Bush. He is not the one that started stealing all the money. That has been going on for years. Bush wanted to reform Social Security, but the Morons in the House and the Senate are not interested. You cant fix stupid. Blame him for the war but not SS or Medicare. He did not start those programs, he only inherited the mess.

GM's problems are all due to mis-management.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Harvey
Regardless of other factors, GM is as much responsible for its problems as anyone, due to years of manufacturing and promoting piss poorly designed gas guzzlers.

My god, I actually agree with you Harvey

I'm no union fan (and I believe they DID have hand in GM's problems) but they were running themselves in to the ground for years. Producing big, heavy, gas guzzling machines when gas prices are at record highs. A recipe for disaster.

 

[feelingshorter]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Harvey
Regardless of other factors, GM is as much responsible for its problems as anyone, due to years of manufacturing and promoting piss poorly designed gas guzzlers.

My god, I actually agree with you Harvey

I'm no union fan (and I believe they DID have hand in GM's problems) but they were running themselves in to the ground for years. Producing big, heavy, gas guzzling machines when gas prices are at record highs. A recipe for disaster.

This thread brings back memories of a brand new Chevy Corsica bought brand new long ago....... *cries*.....arguments after arguments, repair bills, car not running during the rain...

 

[Kwaipie]

I wonder how much of an effect the Medicare Drug Prescription Plan will have on the budget. That whole process was criminal.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: piasabird
You cant blame social security problems on Bush. He is not the one that started stealing all the money. That has been going on for years. Bush wanted to reform Social Security, but the Morons in the House and the Senate are not interested. You cant fix stupid. Blame him for the war but not SS or Medicare. He did not start those programs, he only inherited the mess.

He inherited an existing mess, but the trillions of dollars in debt to which his war of lies has committed us has worsened every other financial problem in the nation by orders of magnitude.

Originally posted by: Pabster
My god, I actually agree with you Harvey

Oh, nozers... How did that happen? :beer: :thumbsup:

Originally posted by: Kwaipie
I wonder how much of an effect the Medicare Drug Prescription Plan will have on the budget. That whole process was criminal.

My god, I actually agree with you, Kwaipie.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: piasabird
You cant blame social security problems on Bush. He is not the one that started stealing all the money. That has been going on for years. Bush wanted to reform Social Security, but the Morons in the House and the Senate are not interested. You cant fix stupid. Blame him for the war but not SS or Medicare. He did not start those programs, he only inherited the mess.

GM's problems are all due to mis-management.

Um, did Bush sign budget bills from 2001 - 2007? If the answer is Yes, then he's part of the problem. Here's an easy 'reform' Bush could have instituted when his party had control of the Congress . . . don't spend the surplus.

As for Medicare, you need to read up on what the MMA of 2003 has done to the long-range forecast for Medicare. Bush/GOP have done the equivalent of running the Titanic into a 2nd iceberg.

Overall, Bush fiscal policies have made the situation worse in both SS and Medicare. He doesn't get credit for starting the problems but only the ignorant deny his complicity.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Now for the reality check:
AARP isn't even in the top 5 when it comes to special interests that will keep this future trainwreck on its way to disaster:
1) politicians
2) insurance companies
3) hospitals (for-profit)
4) drug companies
5) other industries that feed directly from the healthcare/SS trough (long-term care facilities)

I disagree, AARP is very high as it constitutes a large number of voters. The others only comprise money. The politicians will buy votes from AARP members using money from your "top 5"



Too many of the OLD feel entitled to the money of the current generation and playing class warfare works to this end.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Too many of the OLD feel entitled to the money of the current generation and playing class warfare works to this end.

Oh... I see... Does that mean every law abiding, working American who has paid their taxes and contributed to Social Security, per the laws of the United States of America, since the day they started working, should be told they should forget about receiving the benefits of the contract they made with the nation upon reaching retirement, now that they're too old to work full time, any longer? :roll:

Once again, you're full of bull, Shivetya. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

 

[jpeyton]

The AARP didn't pass the prescription drug bill, nor are they responsible for the unreasonable cost of health care or medicine.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The AARP didn't pass the prescription drug bill, nor are they responsible for the unreasonable cost of health care or medicine.

Nor are they responsible for the decades of pilphering the SS surpluses, or the out of control government spending that resulted from said pilphering.

 

[fornax]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Just let it go bankrupt and let Mexico take it over.

That's what's taking place anyway.

Before that happens, we can delay it as Europe has. Just continuously raise taxes each time we near bankruptcy and import a foreign work force to pay your bills. The dire eventualities will be left to our kids, but we?ll escape all responsibility in fixing the problem.

Which "Europe" are you talking about? There are about 35 independent health care markets in Europe. France or Italy, which have very similar problems to ours (in terms of money, not in terms of providing care), or Switzerland, Finland, Ireland, Luxembourg, and many others, which have healthy health care situation? Or the UK, Portugal, Greece, and a few others that are in the middle? Or Slovenia, which is the envy of many "old" European countries? Or Romania, Bulgaria, Russia, etc. which are closest to the American model and which have tragic health care system, with 70% of Russian males dying young from stroke and heart disease?

Do you actually know where Europe is?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Now for the reality check:
AARP isn't even in the top 5 when it comes to special interests that will keep this future trainwreck on its way to disaster:
1) politicians
2) insurance companies
3) hospitals (for-profit)
4) drug companies
5) other industries that feed directly from the healthcare/SS trough (long-term care facilities)

I disagree, AARP is very high as it constitutes a large number of voters. The others only comprise money. The politicians will buy votes from AARP members using money from your "top 5"



Too many of the OLD feel entitled to the money of the current generation and playing class warfare works to this end.

No offense . . . but you appear to be pretty ignorant. Politicians buy votes from AARP using MY money. The Top 5 give millions to the politicians and then the politicians give billions of taxpayer dollars to the corporations.

Technically, the old are entitled to the money b/c the government enrolled them (involuntary) in an ENTITLEMENT program. Personally, I'm all for radical changes in Medicare but not so much SS.

AARP certainly lobbies for the interests of its membership and they currently aren't doing GenX (or those after us) any favors. But making them the bogey man is just plain lame.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: ayabe
We could shave hundreds of billions off of Medicare if we would revise the bill so collective bargaining could occur, competition is not working in this case.

Legalize pot and tax it, SS will be solvent forever.

It's like suicide, it solves all problems, permanently.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Too many of the OLD feel entitled to the money of the current generation and playing class warfare works to this end.

Oh... I see... Does that mean every law abiding, working American who has paid their taxes and contributed to Social Security, per the laws of the United States of America, since the day they started working, should be told they should forget about receiving the benefits of the contract they made with the nation upon reaching retirement, now that they're too old to work full time, any longer? :roll:

Contract?!? What contract? You've got no right to Social Security, at least in the contractual sense. Read the Supreme Court case of Nestor v. Fleming, which held:
"It is apparent that the noncontractual interest of an employee covered by the Act cannot be soundly analogized to that of the holder of an annuity, whose right to benefits is bottomed on his contractual premium payments."

You should also read Helvering v. Davis, which determined the Social Security Act was passed under Congress's authority to tax; as such, payments to Social Security are a tax, and you have no property right in them. You may get something back, or you may not, but if you get nothing, you have no legal recourse to complain. Social Security money belongs to the government, not the people. There's a reason why it's a mandatory system; no intelligent person would voluntarily subject themselves to such a scheme.