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Will SS Run Out Before Your Time?

Lost_in_the_HTTP

Lost_in_the_HTTP

Lifer
apnews.com

COVID recession pushed Social Security insolvency up a year

The sharp shock of the coronavirus recession pushed Social Security a year closer to insolvency but left Medicare’s exhaustion date unchanged, the government reported Tuesday.
apnews.com apnews.com

www.upi.com

Social Security projected to not pay full benefits by 2034 after COVID-19 pandemic - UPI.com

Social Security trust funds won't be able to pay full benefits by 2034, one year earlier than previously projected, due to the impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic.
www.upi.com www.upi.com


For an awful ot of people, this is their only income after they stop working. For others, it's a drop in the bucket compared to their other retirement income. Is it time to cut the second group off so the first group can survive?
 
huh, I would have though the pandemic would have helped SS with the higher death rate seen in retirees. I guess the high unemployment rate offset that.
 
IMO, I look ai this issue as if social security is doomed. Why? Because, then I'm not overly reliant on SS when and if I reach 65. If it is there for me great. I'll use it AS A OTHER SOURCE OF INCOME Not as my main source which so many Americans are dependent one. This mindset forces me into other endeavors in which I can develop skills that can be parlayed into making more income. And, so now I have 2-3 other sources of income when and if I reach old age. SS was never meant to be used as the primary source of retirement income, but it seems to be the case for so many Americans. If it's there great. If not, then I'll have other sources that I can draw from. A 401k, Roth IRA, investments, rentals, maybe an online business, etc.

What really needs to be talked about is the issue states are going to be faced with government pensions. This is a HUGE train wreck waiting to happen as millions of baby boomer teachers, police, fire fighters, city workers retire and put strain on the pension funds. A few states are already having issues. In NJ, we are about $0.32 on every dollar of funding. Mitch McConnell wants his state to be able to back out of their pension obligations to retirees. There is a state (can't remember) that had gone insolvent and has so little funds left that the police union is suing them fur under funding they pensions. Ted Sedelle, a SEC whistle blower talks about how dire the situation is, and talks to police, and fire workers and is very blunt about how they should be developing other forms of income just incase the pension money dries up. He had an UPS worker on his show, and that UPS worker talked about how his pension was stolen from under his watch. He was supposed to retire with about $50k a year. Instead, the state took the pensions over after the hedge fund manager robbed him, and he was left with about $1k a month. He's still working btw. He can't retire. Most people are oblivious to this. France, Brazil and Japan are going thru the same issues as well.
 
Lost_in_the_HTTP said:
apnews.com

COVID recession pushed Social Security insolvency up a year

The sharp shock of the coronavirus recession pushed Social Security a year closer to insolvency but left Medicare’s exhaustion date unchanged, the government reported Tuesday.
apnews.com apnews.com

www.upi.com

Social Security projected to not pay full benefits by 2034 after COVID-19 pandemic - UPI.com

Social Security trust funds won't be able to pay full benefits by 2034, one year earlier than previously projected, due to the impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic.
www.upi.com www.upi.com


For an awful ot of people, this is their only income after they stop working. For others, it's a drop in the bucket compared to their other retirement income. Is it time to cut the second group off so the first group can survive?
Click to expand...

No.

Just implement taxes on capital gains in Roth* IRAs.

*Roth IRAs are not like your traditional IRAs. They are a tax loophole** created in 1998 by the republicans to allow rich people to avoid paying capital gains. For example Peter Theil managed to rack up $5 billion dollars in 100% tax free income using one of these.

**the loophole is actually achieved through Roth conversions, not so much contributing directly to the account. This is the way around the yearly limits.
 
Last edited:
Leeea said:
No.

Just implement taxes on capital gains in Roth* IRAs.

*Roth IRAs are not like your traditional IRAs. They are a tax loophole** created in 1998 by the republicans to allow rich people to avoid paying capital gains. For example Peter Theil managed to rack up $5 billion dollars in 100% tax free income using one of these.

**the loophole is actually achieved through Roth conversions, not so much contributing directly to the account. This is the way around the yearly limits.
Click to expand...
And raise the income cap which is approximately $120,000.
 
Leeea said:
No.

Just implement taxes on capital gains in Roth* IRAs.

*Roth IRAs are not like your traditional IRAs. They are a tax loophole** created in 1998 by the republicans to allow rich people to avoid paying capital gains. For example Peter Theil managed to rack up $5 billion dollars in 100% tax free income using one of these.

**the loophole is actually achieved through Roth conversions, not so much contributing directly to the account. This is the way around the yearly limits.
Click to expand...
No. Roth contributions come from after-tax dollars. There was no tax break associated with these contributions. Traditional and Roth IRAs were clearly set up to encourage middle class retirement savers. The obvious problem is the backdoor conversion loophole, which I believe didn't actually exist before about 5 years ago (conversions always existed, but I don't recall them being used to dodge income limits). Maybe it was abused as a consequence of the Trump tax cuts, I don't recall.

Obviously the fix is to take away the backdoor conversion loophole and prevent assholes like Thiel from sheltering billions in capital gains. That was never ever the intent of IRAs. Other than that, it's pretty obvious that future benefits will take a haircut and that the income limit for payroll tax needs to be higher.
 
woolfe9998 said:
Said collapse is far more likely than SS actually not paying out. In fact, the collapse would have to happen first for that to ever occur.
Click to expand...
Nope, that money will be raided to push back the effects of the collapse in the US. No govt is going to let a trillion dollars sit in a bank for a future that nobody will live to see.
 
[DHT]Osiris said:
Nope, that money will be raided to push back the effects of the collapse in the US. No govt is going to let a trillion dollars sit in a bank for a future that nobody will live to see.
Click to expand...

Well, perhaps, but if we're going to collapse, SS would be an effect in your scenario, not a cause. Meaning it's kind of irrelevant because we're all fuked anyway.

Absent a general collapse, I do not see SS failing to pay out.
 
[DHT]Osiris said:
Nope, that money will be raided to push back the effects of the collapse in the US. No govt is going to let a trillion dollars sit in a bank for a future that nobody will live to see.
Click to expand...
You do realize the social security trust fund does not exist, has never existed, and can never exist, correct? There is no money in a bank account to be raided.
 
[DHT]Osiris said:
The SSA disagrees with you.
Click to expand...
No they don't, not in any meaningful way. The idea of a social security trust fund is illogical on its face. How could it ever exist? I guess technically we could buy massive amounts of offshore assets to eventually sell back, but that would cause worldwide chaos and regardless, we don't do that.

Think about it this way. What is the social security trust fund, according to the SSA? It's treasury bills, right? What's a treasury bill? A promise by the government to pay $X at some future date. So the SSA trust fund is the government promising to pay... the government. If you promise to pay yourself $100 tomorrow do you have a $100 asset? Of course not.

See how it doesn't exist and can't exist?
 
the income cap should be more like 500, not 132k or whatever this alone will help a lot. get rid of backdoor roths, and raise the income limit to 250 for regular roth contributions. i would even consider an asset cap on benefits of like 50 mil.

or just give me my money back, that would be fine too.
 
Now that I think about it it's even sillier than that. It's not just the government promising to pay itself, it's promising to pay itself in a currency it creates! So it's not even [DHT]Osiris paying himself $100, he's paying himself 100 OsirisBucks which he can create by writing on the back of a napkin.
 
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