Will say a 9800 pro really be worthless/unable to cope in a couple of years time?

[dug777]

Inspired by this comment from Rollo in another thread


quote:

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Originally posted by: Rollo

quote:

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Originally posted by: Todd33
No current card is going to play U3 well, you will need next gen, it is a next gen engine.
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This is likely true, dual 512MB 6800Us is probably a person's best shot.
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i'd hope it is like the current situation with the ti4200's, they still have plenty of horsepower for the latest games today, simply lack the feature set?

i can't imagine that game producers will alienate their audience to the extent that more than a 9800 pro/ (which is still a very, very high end card to those outside the forum/enthusiast crowd) will not be able to competently handle games for at least a couple more years...

Put it this way, hl2 and CS:S have shown that you can write code that still looks amazing, but runs at 1024 with 16AF smooth as butter on a gf4 MX (and i know cos i'm currently doing just that, 65 fps in the Source benchie ), and i'd hope that other developers would sit up and take notice of this, unless they are totally in cahoots with the hardware boys

If i were them i'd be drooling at the thought of the increased potential market if they could do this...

I don't want you to get the idea that i'm against developers taking full advantage of new features at all tho Just ensuring that their code is very playable and as good looking as possible on older feature sets for as long as possible (and again i use the case of the gf4 mx i'm using atm, in CS:S and hl2 the textures may be pretty poor but everything else (amazing fences, railings, windows, interactions with scenery) is still there and very smoothly playable on gf2 technology).

Opinions?

Cheers,

Dug.

 

[BillyBobJoel71]

a 9800 pro will not be alienated in a few years. it will be mainstream or lower. but all of the cards out now will be outdated, even 6800 ultras 512- the technology advancements are multiplinyg exponetially

 

[imported_DaveA]

BF2 will alienate the geforce 4 croud:

Q: Can you give us a definitive answer as to what the system requirements are?
A: Minimum System Requirements are 1.7 GHZ CPU, 512mb of RAM, Video card that supports 1.4 shaders. That is Geforce FX and higher, Radeon 8500 and higher. (Geforce 4 Cards will not work).
Recommended System Requirements are 2.0 GHZ to 2.5 GHZ CPU, 1gig of RAM, Video Card that supports 1.4 Shaders.

geforce 4 = 1.3 shaders
radeon 8500 = 1.4 shaders

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: DaveA
BF2 will alienate the geforce 4 croud:

Q: Can you give us a definitive answer as to what the system requirements are?
A: Minimum System Requirements are 1.7 GHZ CPU, 512mb of RAM, Video card that supports 1.4 shaders. That is Geforce FX and higher, Radeon 8500 and higher. (Geforce 4 Cards will not work).
Recommended System Requirements are 2.0 GHZ to 2.5 GHZ CPU, 1gig of RAM, Video Card that supports 1.4 Shaders.

geforce 4 = 1.3 shaders
radeon 8500 = 1.4 shaders

I suppose I don't see what the big deal is. Isn't the Geforce 4 four years old at this point anyway?

Edit: I'm not saying I particularly enjoy buying high-end video cards every year or so (well, I do like getting them, I just don't like paying for them ), but I suppose I'm just realistic and don't expect to be playing any new games 3-5 years from now on my 6800GT....

 

[imported_DaveA]

my point was that all cards will be worthless in due time. 9800 pro still has 2 years in it atleast. sure your gonna have to forget about aa and af and lower the resolution down to 800x600 in about 1 and a half years but it should be able to play most if not all the upcoming games.

as far as unreal 3 goes: i think they (unreal 3 devs) are going to have to include support for shader model 2.0 if they want to sell a decent amount of copies of the game. very few people have shader model 3.0 capable cards.

 

[Avalon]

I think a 9800pro has a good two years life left in it. It's still a champ in most games at medium resolutions.

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: DaveA
my point was that all cards will be worthless in due time. 9800 pro still has 2 years in it atleast. sure your gonna have to forget about aa and af and lower the resolution down to 800x600 in about 1 and a half years but it should be able to play most if not all the upcoming games.

as far as unreal 3 goes: i think they (unreal 3 devs) are going to have to include support for shader model 2.0 if they want to sell a decent amount of copies of the game. very few people have shader model 3.0 capable cards.

I agree...you'll still be able to get by (although personally I'll have nothing to do with that kind of neutered gaming ). Hell, some of my friends still have TNT2 Ultra's and GF2MX's and such....

About UE3, of course they'll have to have a fallback SM2 (or lower) path...Hell, even a 9800 Pro is considered "high-end" still by many people...:Q

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: DaveA
BF2 will alienate the geforce 4 croud:

Q: Can you give us a definitive answer as to what the system requirements are?
A: Minimum System Requirements are 1.7 GHZ CPU, 512mb of RAM, Video card that supports 1.4 shaders. That is Geforce FX and higher, Radeon 8500 and higher. (Geforce 4 Cards will not work).
Recommended System Requirements are 2.0 GHZ to 2.5 GHZ CPU, 1gig of RAM, Video Card that supports 1.4 Shaders.

geforce 4 = 1.3 shaders
radeon 8500 = 1.4 shaders

I suppose I don't see what the big deal is. Isn't the Geforce 4 four years old at this point anyway?

Edit: I'm not saying I particularly enjoy buying high-end video cards every year or so (well, I do like getting them, I just don't like paying for them ), but I suppose I'm just realistic and don't expect to be playing any new games 3-5 years from now on my 6800GT....

Yeah but my point simply is that a HUGE number of people who are currently casual gamers (and usually not warez monkeys either) have gf4's (i read somewhere how many gf4 MX cards were sold once and it was a very large number), and a much larger number still have cards of the 9800 pro equivalent feature set or lower.

Given the way computers have been developing over the last couple of years, i see little reason for people with anything above a p4 2ghz will update for the core uses of their pc (office, IE, DVD maybe), meaning that those computers (and the gfx cards in them) are likely to be around for a two or three years yet. If you can write your code so that these people (or their kids ) can play quite bearably, think of the increased potential market developers would have...

 

[imported_DaveA]

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: DaveA
my point was that all cards will be worthless in due time. 9800 pro still has 2 years in it atleast. sure your gonna have to forget about aa and af and lower the resolution down to 800x600 in about 1 and a half years but it should be able to play most if not all the upcoming games.

as far as unreal 3 goes: i think they (unreal 3 devs) are going to have to include support for shader model 2.0 if they want to sell a decent amount of copies of the game. very few people have shader model 3.0 capable cards.

I agree...you'll still be able to get by (although personally I'll have nothing to do with that kind of neutered gaming ). Hell, some of my friends still have TNT2 Ultra's and GF2MX's and such....

About UE3, of course they'll have to have a fallback SM2 (or lower) path...Hell, even a 9800 Pro is considered "high-end" still by many people...:Q

i just upgraded from a tnt2 ultra to a 9800 pro

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: DaveA
BF2 will alienate the geforce 4 croud:

Q: Can you give us a definitive answer as to what the system requirements are?
A: Minimum System Requirements are 1.7 GHZ CPU, 512mb of RAM, Video card that supports 1.4 shaders. That is Geforce FX and higher, Radeon 8500 and higher. (Geforce 4 Cards will not work).
Recommended System Requirements are 2.0 GHZ to 2.5 GHZ CPU, 1gig of RAM, Video Card that supports 1.4 Shaders.

geforce 4 = 1.3 shaders
radeon 8500 = 1.4 shaders

I suppose I don't see what the big deal is. Isn't the Geforce 4 four years old at this point anyway?

Edit: I'm not saying I particularly enjoy buying high-end video cards every year or so (well, I do like getting them, I just don't like paying for them ), but I suppose I'm just realistic and don't expect to be playing any new games 3-5 years from now on my 6800GT....

Yeah but my point simply is that a HUGE number of people who are currently casual gamers (and usually not warez monkeys either) have gf4's (i read somewhere how many gf4 MX cards were sold once and it was a very large number), and a much larger number still have cards of the 9800 pro equivalent feature set or lower.

Given the way computers have been developing over the last couple of years, i see little reason for people with anything above a p4 2ghz will update for the core uses of their pc (office, IE, DVD maybe), meaning that those computers (and the gfx cards in them) are likely to be around for a two or three years yet. If you can write your code so that these people (or their kids ) can play quite bearably, think of the increased potential market developers would have...

Yeah...the developers don't really have a choice (they have to sell reasonable numbers of copies of their software to make money). But it would be nice if they could just focus on one feature set/spec and not support anything lower, imagine the things they could do... (Not that it'll ever happen though).

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: DaveA

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: DaveA
my point was that all cards will be worthless in due time. 9800 pro still has 2 years in it atleast. sure your gonna have to forget about aa and af and lower the resolution down to 800x600 in about 1 and a half years but it should be able to play most if not all the upcoming games.

as far as unreal 3 goes: i think they (unreal 3 devs) are going to have to include support for shader model 2.0 if they want to sell a decent amount of copies of the game. very few people have shader model 3.0 capable cards.

I agree...you'll still be able to get by (although personally I'll have nothing to do with that kind of neutered gaming ). Hell, some of my friends still have TNT2 Ultra's and GF2MX's and such....

About UE3, of course they'll have to have a fallback SM2 (or lower) path...Hell, even a 9800 Pro is considered "high-end" still by many people...:Q

i just upgraded from a tnt2 ultra to a 9800 pro

:thumbsup:

I've been somewhat of an upgrade whore recently (in the last few years)...TNT2 Ultra, then Radeon 8500, then Radeon 9700 Pro, now Geforce 6800GT, then probably R520/G70 in a few months...

Oh well, it's my one hobby, I guess.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: DaveA

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: DaveA
my point was that all cards will be worthless in due time. 9800 pro still has 2 years in it atleast. sure your gonna have to forget about aa and af and lower the resolution down to 800x600 in about 1 and a half years but it should be able to play most if not all the upcoming games.

as far as unreal 3 goes: i think they (unreal 3 devs) are going to have to include support for shader model 2.0 if they want to sell a decent amount of copies of the game. very few people have shader model 3.0 capable cards.

I agree...you'll still be able to get by (although personally I'll have nothing to do with that kind of neutered gaming ). Hell, some of my friends still have TNT2 Ultra's and GF2MX's and such....

About UE3, of course they'll have to have a fallback SM2 (or lower) path...Hell, even a 9800 Pro is considered "high-end" still by many people...:Q

i just upgraded from a tnt2 ultra to a 9800 pro

:thumbsup:

I've been somewhat of an upgrade whore recently (in the last few years)...TNT2 Ultra, then Radeon 8500, then Radeon 9700 Pro, now Geforce 6800GT, then probably R520/G70 in a few months...

Oh well, it's my one hobby, I guess.

take up drinking as your other hobby this year

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: DaveA

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: DaveA
my point was that all cards will be worthless in due time. 9800 pro still has 2 years in it atleast. sure your gonna have to forget about aa and af and lower the resolution down to 800x600 in about 1 and a half years but it should be able to play most if not all the upcoming games.

as far as unreal 3 goes: i think they (unreal 3 devs) are going to have to include support for shader model 2.0 if they want to sell a decent amount of copies of the game. very few people have shader model 3.0 capable cards.

I agree...you'll still be able to get by (although personally I'll have nothing to do with that kind of neutered gaming ). Hell, some of my friends still have TNT2 Ultra's and GF2MX's and such....

About UE3, of course they'll have to have a fallback SM2 (or lower) path...Hell, even a 9800 Pro is considered "high-end" still by many people...:Q

i just upgraded from a tnt2 ultra to a 9800 pro

:thumbsup:

I've been somewhat of an upgrade whore recently (in the last few years)...TNT2 Ultra, then Radeon 8500, then Radeon 9700 Pro, now Geforce 6800GT, then probably R520/G70 in a few months...

Oh well, it's my one hobby, I guess.

take up drinking as your other hobby this year

haha

I personally don't see the appeal in spending tons of money just to get so drunk you feel like crap, but that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: DaveA
my point was that all cards will be worthless in due time. 9800 pro still has 2 years in it atleast. sure your gonna have to forget about aa and af and lower the resolution down to 800x600 in about 1 and a half years but it should be able to play most if not all the upcoming games.

as far as unreal 3 goes: i think they (unreal 3 devs) are going to have to include support for shader model 2.0 if they want to sell a decent amount of copies of the game. very few people have shader model 3.0 capable cards.

I agree...you'll still be able to get by (although personally I'll have nothing to do with that kind of neutered gaming ). Hell, some of my friends still have TNT2 Ultra's and GF2MX's and such....

About UE3, of course they'll have to have a fallback SM2 (or lower) path...Hell, even a 9800 Pro is considered "high-end" still by many people...:Q

Hey I'm still using GF2MX. My projector only goes up to 800x600 so it's fine for most older games I play.

 

[imported_DaveA]

Originally posted by: Naustica

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: DaveA
my point was that all cards will be worthless in due time. 9800 pro still has 2 years in it atleast. sure your gonna have to forget about aa and af and lower the resolution down to 800x600 in about 1 and a half years but it should be able to play most if not all the upcoming games.

as far as unreal 3 goes: i think they (unreal 3 devs) are going to have to include support for shader model 2.0 if they want to sell a decent amount of copies of the game. very few people have shader model 3.0 capable cards.

I agree...you'll still be able to get by (although personally I'll have nothing to do with that kind of neutered gaming ). Hell, some of my friends still have TNT2 Ultra's and GF2MX's and such....

About UE3, of course they'll have to have a fallback SM2 (or lower) path...Hell, even a 9800 Pro is considered "high-end" still by many people...:Q

Hey I'm still using GF2MX. My projector only goes up to 800x600 so it's fine for most older games I play.

old skool lol.

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: Naustica

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: DaveA
my point was that all cards will be worthless in due time. 9800 pro still has 2 years in it atleast. sure your gonna have to forget about aa and af and lower the resolution down to 800x600 in about 1 and a half years but it should be able to play most if not all the upcoming games.

as far as unreal 3 goes: i think they (unreal 3 devs) are going to have to include support for shader model 2.0 if they want to sell a decent amount of copies of the game. very few people have shader model 3.0 capable cards.

I agree...you'll still be able to get by (although personally I'll have nothing to do with that kind of neutered gaming ). Hell, some of my friends still have TNT2 Ultra's and GF2MX's and such....

About UE3, of course they'll have to have a fallback SM2 (or lower) path...Hell, even a 9800 Pro is considered "high-end" still by many people...:Q

Hey I'm still using GF2MX. My projector only goes up to 800x600 so it's fine for most older games I play.

Oh I know, I'm certainly not trying to insult people who use older cards (and I'm sorry if I came across that way), I'm just saying that I couldn't do that. I like playing at high resolution and with all eye-candy enabled, etc.

Some people like pouring tons of $$$ into fast cars, some people like spending $$$ on getting drunk often (dug777, I'm looking in your direction ), etc. To each their own.

 

[imported_DaveA]

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: Naustica

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: DaveA
my point was that all cards will be worthless in due time. 9800 pro still has 2 years in it atleast. sure your gonna have to forget about aa and af and lower the resolution down to 800x600 in about 1 and a half years but it should be able to play most if not all the upcoming games.

as far as unreal 3 goes: i think they (unreal 3 devs) are going to have to include support for shader model 2.0 if they want to sell a decent amount of copies of the game. very few people have shader model 3.0 capable cards.

I agree...you'll still be able to get by (although personally I'll have nothing to do with that kind of neutered gaming ). Hell, some of my friends still have TNT2 Ultra's and GF2MX's and such....

About UE3, of course they'll have to have a fallback SM2 (or lower) path...Hell, even a 9800 Pro is considered "high-end" still by many people...:Q

Hey I'm still using GF2MX. My projector only goes up to 800x600 so it's fine for most older games I play.

Oh I know, I'm certainly not trying to insult people who use older cards (and I'm sorry if I came across that way), I'm just saying that I couldn't do that. I like playing at high resolution and with all eye-candy enabled, etc.

Some people like pouring tons of $$$ into fast cars, some people like spending $$$ on getting drunk often (dug777, I'm looking in your direction ), etc. To each their own.

what one doesnt know cant harm them. using a tnt2 ultra kept me away from high res and aa and af. now with this 9800 pro im going to be cranking 1024x768 with aa and af. quite frankly though i think im going to bite the bullet and upgrade to r520

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: DaveA
what one doesnt know cant harm them. using a tnt2 ultra kept me away from high res and aa and af. now with this 9800 pro im going to be cranking 1024x768 with aa and af. quite frankly though i think im going to bite the bullet and upgrade to r520

Once you start, there's no going back, eh?

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: DaveA
what one doesnt know cant harm them. using a tnt2 ultra kept me away from high res and aa and af. now with this 9800 pro im going to be cranking 1024x768 with aa and af. quite frankly though i think im going to bite the bullet and upgrade to r520

Once you start, there's no going back, eh?

same with drinking

But given my monitor limitations i think i will be happy with my 9800 pro for quite a while At least i hope so

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: DaveA
what one doesnt know cant harm them. using a tnt2 ultra kept me away from high res and aa and af. now with this 9800 pro im going to be cranking 1024x768 with aa and af. quite frankly though i think im going to bite the bullet and upgrade to r520

Once you start, there's no going back, eh?

same with drinking

But given my monitor limitations i think i will be happy with my 9800 pro for quite a while At least i hope so

I thought the same. Then I bought a bigger monitor.

 

[imported_DaveA]

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: DaveA
what one doesnt know cant harm them. using a tnt2 ultra kept me away from high res and aa and af. now with this 9800 pro im going to be cranking 1024x768 with aa and af. quite frankly though i think im going to bite the bullet and upgrade to r520

Once you start, there's no going back, eh?

its all my blasted best friends fault. i saw him gaming on a x800 xt 2 weeks ago and my jaw dropped. grrr.

 

[Munky]

Well, the gf4200 is like 4 years old, and it was never even the fastest card when it was new, and it can still play modern games at low-medium settings. The 9800pro was the fastest card on the planet 2 years ago, and I'd say it still has 2 more years left at medium settings. In fact, I'm using a 9800pro oc'd to 450/365 and I play HL2 and FarCry at 1024 res + 4xAA/8xAF with high detail settings, and that's on a 2.5ghz Barton cpu - it still runs pretty smooth. Since I don't upgrade often, I'm keeping it for at least another year, or untill all games are sm3 only.

 

[apoppin]

i believe the 9800p will go the way of the Radeon 8500 when the Unreal Engine3 games hit the market . . . . you got another 1 to 2 years [max]
(imo)

 

[imported_DaveA]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i believe the 9800p will go the way of the Radeon 8500 when the Unreal Engine3 games hit the market . . . . you got another 1 to 2 years [max]
(imo)

sorry im not familiar with the radeon 8500 and its demise, what happend to it?

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: DaveA

Originally posted by: apoppin
i believe the 9800p will go the way of the Radeon 8500 when the Unreal Engine3 games hit the market . . . . you got another 1 to 2 years [max]
(imo)

sorry im not familiar with the radeon 8500 and its demise, what happend to it?

I think he just means that it's outdated. It's usually slower than a GF4 Ti4200, if I remember correctly.