Will Nvidia PWN ATi once Doom III is released?

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Alkali

Senior member
Aug 14, 2002
483
0
0
you know what that is a great idea!!!


I am gonna get a T-shirt printed now with 1 h4v3 t0 b3 1n b3d by 9 0 c10ck - my mommy told me so...
 
Jeff7181

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
11
81
I vote for hidden option number 6...
Doom 3 doesn't have anything to do with the performance of nVidia's cards... I'm waiting to see new drivers from each company.
 
L

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
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Originally posted by: Pete
Possibly.

The GeForce FX is currently the fastest card we've benchmarked the Doom technology on and that's largely due to NVIDIA's close cooperation with us during the development of the algorithms that were used in Doom. They knew that the shadow rendering techniques we're using were going to be very important in a wide variety of games and they made some particular optimizations in their hardware strategy to take advantage of this and that served them well. --JC
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But we haven't seen what the Det50's will do for HL2, and we haven't seen what ATI's driver updates will do for D3. It's still a toss-up, but I think, in the end, ATi's current DX9 cards will outperform nV's current DX9 cards by a greater margin in HL2 than nV's cards do to ATi's in D3.
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That quote was concerning last generation card. There's still this generation, and one more generation to go before Doom3 will be released... so that makes it at least 2 generation since that comment and the final release of Doom3... that's a lot of time in this industry.
 
Regs

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,665
21
81
I'm done spending money on hardware for a long time. This talk about a whole new ball game with new video cards and CPU's... hell no! 600-1000 dollars just for a Athlon 64FX/Nforce 3 and god knows how much for the new video cards and ram. That stuff better be 40-60% faster for the price they'll charge.

What a shame, I just got done upgrading. So new drivers and calculation bound DX9 games better be a solution for these problems. You guys make it sound like they should make more powerful hardware for games made half-assed or suffer from incompatibility issues, doesn't make to much sense.
 
G

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
All indications are the FX cards will be faster than the ATI cards.

Get two computers if it is that big of a deal hehehe.

I am keeping my 5900 and if HL2 truely sucks ass then Ill just play it at a lower res whoopie do. I tend to be impressed by really nice graphics for about 5 minutes then seem to lose sight of it while I get into the game. This is one of the reasons none of ids games have really appeased me.

And to be honest I dont think id makes games to sell games. I think they make games to sell game engines to developers who dont hav the time or money to make an in house game. So ids games imo are made to showcase the engines and what you can do with them.

 
BFG10K

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,002
126
The NV3x might be sligthly faster than the R3xx in Doom III but it'll be around 25%-50% slower in all DirectX 9.0 games. That's a tough trade and it's impossible to say that nVidia will be "pwning" anyone this generation.
 
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RogerAdam

Member
Oct 14, 2001
29
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Originally posted by: BFG10K
The NV3x might be sligthly faster than the R3xx in Doom III but it'll be around 25%-50% slower in all DirectX 9.0 games. That's a tough trade and it's impossible to say that nVidia will be "pwning" anyone this generation.
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Yes, it would probably be faster, however, that's when comparing it running a "special NV3x backend" utilizing FX12 w/a little FP16 for IQ because it runs ARB2 very slow (as per JC) vs ATI defaulting to the ARB2 path (no optimizations just a R2x00/R3x00 FP24 path), hence you'll have a slightly faster NV (special) path lower precision, a native higher precision ARB2 path with ATI at a "slightly" higher IQ (we'll see it's more than this).

So OGL is the same for NV3x as DX9, dumb down the API to be playable.

ATI DX9 = playable
NVidia DX9 = slow, API must be dumbed down to be playable.

ATI OGL (ARB2) = playable
NVidia (ARB2) =slow, API must be dumbed down to be playable.

As per Carmack, he HAS to make a special backend because NV3x utilizing the default ARB2 path is "very slow", why he mentioned this who knows, maybe he too is frustrated as valve was but this is his partner so a quick blurb maybe "punishment" enough, or the man just plain likes the challenge - either way you dice it up, NV is slow with the ARB2 path and precision + advanced features must be dumbed down. ;)
 
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RogerAdam

Member
Oct 14, 2001
29
0
0
Oh, I forget:

NVidia DX9 = slow, API must be dumbed down to be playable. - This and NVidia hasn't even implemented HDR effects in their driver yet, so if you run a "pure NV DX9 driver (an oxymoron at this point in time), and they ADD HDR, they'd be even SLOOOOWER.
 
BFG10K

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,002
126
Yes, nVidia is just lucky that Doom III primarly relies on DirectX tech with little PS/VS and also because it heavily uses stencil operations. And even then they need a reduced precision path in order to slightly edge ATi.
 
Deeko

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Originally posted by: xNoodles
pwn = own

Like i will pwn you at Quake 3.

<--- l337 gamer
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Over 10,000 posts and I don't know that?
rolleye.gif
 
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IQfreak

Junior Member
Sep 15, 2003
12
0
0
Originally posted by: virtualgames0
they run at higher precision in the standard path.. that's why it's so slow..
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That's no excuse - ATI's FP24 is as fast or faster than Nvidia's FP16 with the same 8 bit precision difference. If you want to blame it on the number of shader units/pipelines: ATI's chips have less transistors, and they're running at slower clockspeeds.

ATI just made a better design for floating-point shaders.
 
N

ndee

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
12,680
1
0
Originally posted by: Mitzi
id - fantastic 3D engines, terrible games <PERIOD> :beer:
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better worded then my first response but exactly what I think.
 
Regs

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,665
21
81
Quake 3 Arena wasn't that bad. Wait was that even Id's invention?

Doom sort of reminds me of the cliche experiment when the mouse runs through the maze to get to the cheese.
 
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Sideswipe001

Golden Member
May 23, 2003
1,116
0
0
There is multiplayer in Doom 3 now?

Last I heard they had cut that part of the game out...though it's been a few months since I was reading the rumors.
 
Regs

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,665
21
81
Originally posted by: Sideswipe001
There is multiplayer in Doom 3 now?

Last I heard they had cut that part of the game out...though it's been a few months since I was reading the rumors.
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You are in a Death Match with 3 other players.

 
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Evdawg

Senior member
Aug 23, 2003
979
0
0
since when is doom 3 gonan suck? first 2 were coolio =)..... im not trying to be nub here or anything, but is HL2 not running in Opengl?? DirectX? i guess thats why its a dx9 game.... Doom will be opengl?

Im a scrub =P
 
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