Will Haswell be the clincher CPU of this decade?

Discussion in 'CPUs and Overclocking' started by GWestphal, Nov 23, 2012.

  1. IntelUser2000

    IntelUser2000 Elite Member

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    Actually, Intel said 10W Haswell will be equivalent in GRAPHICS performance. Since they can just use much less of the CPU, that means we'll likely see noticeable performance losses. Remember they said Haswell optimizes for Ultrabooks in the 15-17W category. 10W for Haswell is like 17W for Ivy Bridge and Sandy Bridge, not very optimal.
     
  2. SickBeast

    SickBeast Lifer

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    :D
     
  3. Xpage

    Xpage Senior member

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    A drop from 17w to 10w, will also call for less cooling, thus fans could be off or lowered rpms on idle, thus less energy for cooling too. LCD screens will still take up a majority fo the battery power.


    Broadwell I think will have major limitations due to the amount of heat generated per mm2, thus will not be a good overclocker. Unless some form of exotic cooling is used eg. IBMs water cooling http://www.sciencebuzz.org/blog/ibm-cooling-microchips-water
     
  4. IntelUser2000

    IntelUser2000 Elite Member

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    It already can be turned off. TDP is for worst case scenario, like when you are doing something on load. And I don't mean "load" by movie watching and internet browsing, or even flash games. But running games, doing photo/video editing, and benchmarks like LinX. Since its likely you won't be doing that on battery, it ends up being relevant solely for system design purposes.
     
    #79 IntelUser2000, Nov 24, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  5. jpiniero

    jpiniero Diamond Member

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    To save costs as the share of desktops in terms of Intel's sales continue to decline.

    That's Intel's problem. The need for faster processors for the vast majority is shrinking. For those who do need the performance, that's what the Extreme line is for.
     
  6. pablo87

    pablo87 Senior member

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    I'm not very familiar with Haswell and we don't have reviews yet but rather than looking at technological achievements or how it kills AMD, perhaps we should be looking at what user problem it solves:

    improved IPC - well for most segments that is always a good thing to have more MIPS/watt.

    gaming level graphics - it doesn't sound like it to me. The only real beneficiary I see is vastly improved graphics on lower power devices, otherwise its a betterc speed and feed that is of limited value to most of those buyers.

    improved battery life - of value for sure but it appears that if it's not W8 or panel with dram, it's impact on the overall system is limited.

    cheaper - doesn't appear so...

    Tablet - if its 10W, it's basically not in the game yet though it might get there eventually and maybe that's the ultimate goal.

    Thin / ultra - if it makes them thinner with improved battery life and better graphics then yes it's a winner which leads me to ask this: was Haswell designed primarily for Ultrabook? Seems that way...or perhaps its design was heavily influenced by a major OEM who were considering an alternative architecture...
     
    #81 pablo87, Nov 24, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  7. Ferzerp

    Ferzerp Diamond Member

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    There is an old study, that, at the time, split the power usage in to 3rds.

    1/3 was CPU, 1/3 was screen, 1/3 was everything else. However, I think this info is relatively old.
     
  8. Arachnotronic

    Arachnotronic Diamond Member

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    Haswell is billed as being the first product designed specifically for ultrabooks.
     
  9. SickBeast

    SickBeast Lifer

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    If Haswell's quad core laptop CPUs are cheap with powerful integrated graphics I will definitely be getting one.
     
  10. hokies83

    hokies83 Senior member

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    Sb&IB is already outrageously Dominating Amd...

    Now think if Broadwell is out before Steamroller... If there is even going to be a steamroller that is...
     
  11. Zodiark1593

    Zodiark1593 Platinum Member

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    Heck, I think Nehalem is still topping AMD's best chips.
     
  12. Ajay

    Ajay Platinum Member

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    Bulldozer was AMD's death blow. Now we are just tracking the blood trail to we get to the kill.
     
  13. dguy6789

    dguy6789 Diamond Member

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    As far as I know Penryn is still
     
  14. Exophase

    Exophase Diamond Member

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    There's a difference between has an APU and is an APU. Discrete GPUs are still very common in laptops. I explicitly looked for an IB laptop that did not have discrete and couldn't find one that also had the other features I wanted.

    Why would laptops have so many more APUs than desktops anyway? Are you saying people upgrade their desktops much more frequently? Because Intel CPUs have all had IGPs for a couple generations, and while you can't get AMD's current CPU-only chips in laptops they aren't exactly covering a lot of the desktop market either.
     
  15. AtenRa

    AtenRa Lifer

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    The market share numbers are for the entire x86 market including Servers. Because we only care about Desktop and Mobile(Laptops) here, AMDs market share is larger because their server market share is small compared to Intel's. I dont have the Q3 2012 numbers but a year ago it was close to 33% in desktop.

    But i was only talking about the product itself when i have said that we already have a product that brought 3D gaming for the budget buyer.

    Any way, I dont want to continue this over here ;)

    Edit: 17% market share is for Desktop + Mobile only
     
    #90 AtenRa, Nov 25, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  16. Nemesis 1

    Nemesis 1 Lifer

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    I believe Haswell will be the big core that ties IE7 socket and Itanic into the same form factor . But The Big core of these times is PHi. 61 small cores on 1 die . THIS IS THE FUTURE here now. Intel will be releasing the 22nm merrifield phone SoC soon . Imagine 100s of these on a die core. PHi is the REAL CLINCHER but not in its present form.
     
  17. Ajay

    Ajay Platinum Member

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    I don't think so. Xeon Phi is aimed at the HPC market for a reason. It's performance is excellent, and it's programming model looks to have a lower barrier to entry than CUDA. But its excellent performance is only for extremely parallel code. It's designed to offer this performance only in applications that support very high levels of concurrency. It's ST performance is nothing to write home about.
     
  18. Ajay

    Ajay Platinum Member

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    If that was the posters intention, then my answer would is, in all probability, yes. I find it hard to imagine that Intel will achieve >10% increase in IPC on any future chip this decade on previously compiled binaries. Of course, if Intel can pull out a few shockers from it's bag of materials science tricks, then they may keep pulling 10% per tock.

    iGPU is different, with increasing possibilities to put larger eDRAM configurations on an interposer or even on chip and with a very wide memory interface to the iGPU, we could see respectable performance by the 14nm node (Skylake gets a new GPU core). This does depend on Intel improving it's drivers. It is possible we may actually see something impressive by the end of the decade, since GPU designers may not have access to process technology that allows them to compete as effectively with Intel as they do now.
     
    #93 Ajay, Nov 25, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  19. Ferzerp

    Ferzerp Diamond Member

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    Wow, someone tried to steer the conversation to igpus... Such a surprise.
     
  20. Ajay

    Ajay Platinum Member

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    I wasn't trying to steer anything. Just pointing out that Intel has more room to improve the performance of it's iGPUs than its CPUs. No agenda here.
     
  21. Ferzerp

    Ferzerp Diamond Member

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    Let me specify. Someone tried to steer the conversation to how "good" amd igpus are. When all you have is a tack hammer....
     
    #96 Ferzerp, Nov 25, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  22. frozentundra123456

    frozentundra123456 Diamond Member

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    Depends on how you define "3D gaming". On the desktop any igpu is a very unsatisfactory solution for gaming, when it can be beaten by a low end card like the HD7750.
     
  23. Ajay

    Ajay Platinum Member

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    Ah, yes.