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Will Frances eventual response start a chain reaction in Europe?

R

RichardE

Banned
I know many Europeans (specially the ones near Turkey) put up with Muslims in sort of the way the US puts up with Mexicans, they do the jobs we don't want, so we put up with them ect. The major difference I see between the two is that Europeans are afraid of Muslims whereas we are not afraid of Mexicans. France will eventually react to the Muslim uprising in less than civilized terms, or something will happen, some little thing such as a Muslim immigrant killing a French child somehow that might tip the scales. At this point, have we advanced as a society enough to prevent the eventual fascist governments that might arise in Europe using immigrants as the scapegoat? Already multiple far right wing governments in Europe are riding the immigrant wave and gaining support. So, there is not article for this, but a thought I wanted to discuss. Have we advanced far enough that fascism, or a form of fascism using immigrants will not occur in this day in age?


(Note that this is not just happening in Europe but also there have been rumblings in Australia (though to a lesser extent) and obviously Russia.)

As for my own opinion. I think we will hit that tiping point and it will result in mass deportations (In Europe), but I do not think it will as severe as some doomsday writters make it out to be.
 
Why must a country be fascist if it defends itself from invasion and assault?

As to answering your question, depends how greatly Europe has successfully weeded out its people?s natural survival instincts. They are ?civilized? indeed, when the only description permitted of their assailants are ?youths?.

Of course, the thing about youths are that they are the future. So the term is not entirely wrong. The conflict is growing, though I continue to question why you think fascism or surrender are the only two available responses.
 
Have we advanced far enough that fascism, or a form of fascism using immigrants will not occur in this day in age?
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You're smart enough to ask the question which tells me you already know the answer.
 
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Dude WTF, we "put up" with Mexicans?!?!??!?! Way to vilify:thumbsup::roll:
Click to expand...
He's not talking about YOU. He's talking about Mexicans who cannot use the word vilify.

 
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Why must a country be fascist if it defends itself from invasion and assault?

As to answering your question, depends how greatly Europe has successfully weeded out its people?s natural survival instincts. They are ?civilized? indeed, when the only description permitted of their assailants are ?youths?.

Of course, the thing about youths are that they are the future. So the term is not entirely wrong. The conflict is growing, though I continue to question why you think fascism or surrender are the only two available responses.
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...:thumbsup:


..both side of the isle are fed up with the plethora flood of non assimilating dregs passing them selves off as immigrants. Furthermore centralized autocratics always come from the left.

 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Dude WTF, we "put up" with Mexicans?!?!??!?! Way to vilify:thumbsup::roll:
Click to expand...
He's not talking about YOU. He's talking about Mexicans who cannot use the word vilify.
Click to expand...

True, they can't use the word vilify but the more important distinction is there legality in this country or France for that matter.
 
I've been saying this for quite some time. The Eurosupremacists here will call for your head for questioning their society's ills. Here is a quote from an article I posted years ago. Seems to be getting closer and closer to the horrible conclusion.

"We have seen this kind of thing before - policy against a single religion - in our history, and not so long ago," said Barbara John, Germany's recently retired commissioner for foreigners. "Many different people - from the left, from the right - are agreeing that we must draw a line somewhere regarding these Muslims. I would never say that this is the beginning of a new Holocaust. But this is how it starts."
Click to expand...

also there have been rumblings in Australia (though to a lesser extent)
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I would argue that Australia is at times worse than Europe as a whole. They instituted their concentration camps in the desert. Europe's proposal to set them up in the African desert failed (at least for the time being).
 
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Why must a country be fascist if it defends itself from invasion and assault?

As to answering your question, depends how greatly Europe has successfully weeded out its people?s natural survival instincts. They are ?civilized? indeed, when the only description permitted of their assailants are ?youths?.

Of course, the thing about youths are that they are the future. So the term is not entirely wrong. The conflict is growing, though I continue to question why you think fascism or surrender are the only two available responses.
Click to expand...

What other option is there? Appeasement and attempted to "integrate" them into society? They have been trying since at least the early 90's and have so far had no success. I am not saying other options would not be more satisfactory, but you have to have somewhat of a realism outlook when dealing with individuals and groups who share there own broad realistic outlook.

Either way, other options have been tried and failed and you now have far right wing parties gaining popularity in the polls with ever riot. So the two responses that are left is surrender or a form of authority that will use immigrants to push there own agenda (since we know in politics that no party is just going to deal with the immigrant issue and follow the status quo of government). The US response of giving the illegals citizenship will not work, as in Europe they actually want you to integrate into there society, not live your society there. Already you have people in government positions (Austrian Minister for the Interior saying that the majority of Muslims there are noit able to to integrate and should find another country to settle in). So Jackalas, though other options do exist, and we know the majority of them for we have debated them on these boards endlessly with the Mexican illegals issue they are either tried and failed, or not applicable to Europe. I doubt integration of the Muslims (The lower class obviously) will succeed in Europe, and I am sure you can see that as well. If there is another suggestion you were hinting towards I would like to hear it, as I cannot think of any other inevitable outcome to this solution. Suggestions on how to resolve it are academic, I would like to discuss rather what the outcome of what we are seeing will be.
 
Originally posted by: RichardE
I know many Europeans (specially the ones near Turkey) put up with Muslims in sort of the way the US puts up with Mexicans, they do the jobs we don't want, so we put up with them ect. The major difference I see between the two is that Europeans are afraid of Muslims whereas we are not afraid of Mexicans. France will eventually react to the Muslim uprising in less than civilized terms, or something will happen, some little thing such as a Muslim immigrant killing a French child somehow that might tip the scales. At this point, have we advanced as a society enough to prevent the eventual fascist governments that might arise in Europe using immigrants as the scapegoat? Already multiple far right wing governments in Europe are riding the immigrant wave and gaining support. So, there is not article for this, but a thought I wanted to discuss. Have we advanced far enough that fascism, or a form of fascism using immigrants will not occur in this day in age?


(Note that this is not just happening in Europe but also there have been rumblings in Australia (though to a lesser extent) and obviously Russia.)

As for my own opinion. I think we will hit that tiping point and it will result in mass deportations (In Europe), but I do not think it will as severe as some doomsday writters make it out to be.
Click to expand...
umm most of the people doing the rioting are French born. Where are they going to deport them too?

France has a unique problem in that they don?t/didn?t assimilate their Muslim immigrants in anyway shape or form. They may be French by definition, but to many French they really aren?t ?French? but just other people living in their country. Perhaps similar to how the Japanese Americans were treated in WW 2.

Since these young Muslims haven?t been accepted into French society their live on the outside of it with huge unemployment and no real viable future. This is what causes the uprisings. For the most part they are rioting not because they are pissed off Muslims, but because they are pissed off poor people who happen to be Muslims.
 
And why don't people want the jobs "you" let the immigrants have? Quite frankly the prima donna society is destined to self destruct. Why do people find it necessary to teach kids to shun role playing in society in order to aid their kids in finding a better life than they had themselves? Everyone has to play a part, big or small, otherwise the social construct is weak and prone to tampering by outside forces. The whole idea of belonging to a community is for survival, for building future generations to succeed. Teaching the children to avoid menial jobs is basically saying everything that you've done and what your ancestors before you did is worthless and deserves to be buried forever. Our ancestors have built this present society upon a foundation of blood, sweat, and hard toil which requires a viscious cyclical sacrifice from its participants. The immigrants would gladly replace your children in this society by filling those roles that include them in the future. When the outside forces whittle away at your little perfect dream world you effectively have doomed your children to become forever irrelevant.
 
I understand the world is waiting for my response, but given the gravity of the events I could set off with merely a few words, I'd like to study the subject further.

Please do not start killing each other yet.
 
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Why must a country be fascist if it defends itself from invasion and assault?

As to answering your question, depends how greatly Europe has successfully weeded out its people?s natural survival instincts. They are ?civilized? indeed, when the only description permitted of their assailants are ?youths?.

Of course, the thing about youths are that they are the future. So the term is not entirely wrong. The conflict is growing, though I continue to question why you think fascism or surrender are the only two available responses.
Click to expand...

I am assuming he is thinking of Hitlers Nazism and its ethnic purity doctrine. I dont believe Mussolini's fascist state had the same view of different ethnicities.

 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
umm most of the people doing the rioting are French born. Where are they going to deport them too?

France has a unique problem in that they don?t/didn?t assimilate their Muslim immigrants in anyway shape or form. They may be French by definition, but to many French they really aren?t ?French? but just other people living in their country. Perhaps similar to how the Japanese Americans were treated in WW 2.

Since these young Muslims haven?t been accepted into French society their live on the outside of it with huge unemployment and no real viable future. This is what causes the uprisings. For the most part they are rioting not because they are pissed off Muslims, but because they are pissed off poor people who happen to be Muslims.
Click to expand...

I think there is a valuable lesson being taught in France. In the States we are far better at integrating immigrants. However our illegal immigration issue and the policies we are setting in place imo arent much different than how the French treat their Muslim population.

If we continue down the same path as the French the results will be the same.
 
Other options.

Internment Camps
Genocide
Deportation
A civilization where there are 2 classes of citizens and only one class the upper class gets to vote. Then the 2nd class the lower class does not have the same rights. Then there is not any real freedom.
 
One of the duties of a country is to defend its people and their way of life. If immigrants (here in the USA its Mexican, and Europe has Muslims) come in and start requiring the locals to adapt for them, then its called invasion. If its without guns, an army, or a battle, its still an invasion, and my government should be doing something about it. La Raza away!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8mT3X9WKkI
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Dude WTF, we "put up" with Mexicans?!?!??!?! Way to vilify:thumbsup::roll:
Click to expand...
He's not talking about YOU. He's talking about Mexicans who cannot use the word vilify.
Click to expand...

I would be more concerned with the majority of americans who can't use the word vilify.
 
Originally posted by: RichardE
I know many Europeans (specially the ones near Turkey) put up with Muslims in sort of the way the US puts up with Mexicans, they do the jobs we don't want, so we put up with them ect. The major difference I see between the two is that Europeans are afraid of Muslims whereas we are not afraid of Mexicans. France will eventually react to the Muslim uprising in less than civilized terms, or something will happen, some little thing such as a Muslim immigrant killing a French child somehow that might tip the scales. At this point, have we advanced as a society enough to prevent the eventual fascist governments that might arise in Europe using immigrants as the scapegoat? Already multiple far right wing governments in Europe are riding the immigrant wave and gaining support. So, there is not article for this, but a thought I wanted to discuss. Have we advanced far enough that fascism, or a form of fascism using immigrants will not occur in this day in age?


(Note that this is not just happening in Europe but also there have been rumblings in Australia (though to a lesser extent) and obviously Russia.)

As for my own opinion. I think we will hit that tiping point and it will result in mass deportations (In Europe), but I do not think it will as severe as some doomsday writters make it out to be.
Click to expand...


You overlook one huge factor in your discussion, Religion.

Europeans - Mostly Christians
Muslim Immigrants - Mostly Islam

Americans - Mostly Christian
Undocumented Mexicans - Mostly Christian

Mexican culture is already a huge part of US history, especially in the border states. That is something that will never go away. But, If all the undocumented immigrants disappeared overnight, who would replace them? More importantly what religion would they have?

Time for lunch, i think i'll do Mexican today 😉

 
Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
I understand the world is waiting for my response, but given the gravity of the events I could set off with merely a few words, I'd like to study the subject further.

Please do not start killing each other yet.
Click to expand...

LOL.


In any case, I guess I'm a fascist because I want Mexicans, or any foreigners, to migrate through legal methods.

I'm cool with that.
 
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
I understand the world is waiting for my response, but given the gravity of the events I could set off with merely a few words, I'd like to study the subject further.

Please do not start killing each other yet.
Click to expand...

LOL.


In any case, I guess I'm a fascist because I want Mexicans, or any foreigners, to migrate through legal methods.

I'm cool with that.
Click to expand...

The only problem with that is the Fed has failed miserably, is failing miserably and will continue to fail miserably. It's not a local or state issue. It's a Federal issue.

They won't enforce the laws on the books against hiring undocumented workers and fining employers. Nor will the Fed protect the border.

Some folks may come to the conclusion that the Fed doesn't want to do it.
 
Originally posted by: xochi
Originally posted by: RichardE
I know many Europeans (specially the ones near Turkey) put up with Muslims in sort of the way the US puts up with Mexicans, they do the jobs we don't want, so we put up with them ect. The major difference I see between the two is that Europeans are afraid of Muslims whereas we are not afraid of Mexicans. France will eventually react to the Muslim uprising in less than civilized terms, or something will happen, some little thing such as a Muslim immigrant killing a French child somehow that might tip the scales. At this point, have we advanced as a society enough to prevent the eventual fascist governments that might arise in Europe using immigrants as the scapegoat? Already multiple far right wing governments in Europe are riding the immigrant wave and gaining support. So, there is not article for this, but a thought I wanted to discuss. Have we advanced far enough that fascism, or a form of fascism using immigrants will not occur in this day in age?


(Note that this is not just happening in Europe but also there have been rumblings in Australia (though to a lesser extent) and obviously Russia.)

As for my own opinion. I think we will hit that tiping point and it will result in mass deportations (In Europe), but I do not think it will as severe as some doomsday writters make it out to be.
Click to expand...


You overlook one huge factor in your discussion, Religion.

Europeans - Mostly Christians
Muslim Immigrants - Mostly Islam

Americans - Mostly Christian
Undocumented Mexicans - Mostly Christian

Mexican culture is already a huge part of US history, especially in the border states. That is something that will never go away. But, If all the undocumented immigrants disappeared overnight, who would replace them? More importantly what religion would they have?

Time for lunch, i think i'll do Mexican today 😉
Click to expand...

Not to mention that most of the US likes that Mexican food and either employees one or knows several other people who do.
 
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