Will Democrats Learn Or Are We Doomed to Keep Repeating Partisan Tradeoff Elections?

[Meghan54]

Heavy on insults and light on facts. Nice one.

Just taking their cues from you.

 

[cytg111]

OP is of course crackpotting again. Hard. That being said, from the outside it looks like dems could probably gain some ground back of the cheated stolen vote by repubs if they

1. didnt go full retard on abortion, agree on 12 weeks or something. Done.
2. defund the police. Thats almost like a trojan horse injected by Bannon
3. Guns. Its not the right time for it.

 

[cytg111]

The Liberal media did an impressive job the last 4 years of nonstop negative campaign against Trump.People were tired of hearing about Trump and decided that it was better to have Harris as President than another 4 years of negative Trump stories and mostly peaceful riots. That's why the Blue Wave 2020 pooped itself bigly.

Proponents of democracy must really be put to the test they read stuff off the likes of brandon here... this cant possibly be the cause.

 

[MrSquished]

Heavy on insults and light on facts. Nice one.

Conservative evangelicals are probably the worst political oppressors of our day and age. They are so moral and pro-life. Unless you are gay. Or until you are born. Then it's not so pro-life anymore. Healthcare for you, affordable housing to raise you in, education, living wage to raise you on. Not so pro-life about that anymore now are they. They just want to tell a woman what to do with their body. It's all about patriarchy. Not so pro life of you are parents seeking asylum with your kids at the border, then they think you should be permanently separated from your parents. How lovely of these godly folks.

And they are so moral; if you are a Democrat or progressive that is - like let's say Clinton. He wasn't fit to be president because of his immorality with women. But Trump is their shepherd. He can be forgiven. They have no moral compass, it's all about who gives them power. Because he gives them power, with judges or what not, to lord over others and force their morals on everyone else. And they want foreign policy to help fulfill their prophecy of the Rapture, and that's it.

Fuck all those people. Fuck them, their bullshit pro-life fakery, their fucking apocalypse and all their wackiness. They'd be fine with me if they kept it to themselves and if they had any kind of actual moral compass, but they don't. They are moral garbage. Filth. Disgusting hypocritical creatures that as a voting block are probably the single most destructive group in American politics today. Them and the racists. I can't tell who is worse they both make me gag.

 

[ondma]

OP is of course crackpotting again. Hard. That being said, from the outside it looks like dems could probably gain some ground back of the cheated stolen vote by repubs if they

1. didnt go full retard on abortion, agree on 12 weeks or something. Done.
2. defund the police. Thats almost like a trojan horse injected by Bannon
3. Guns. Its not the right time for it.

Problem is the republicans are very effective at painting the democrats in extremist positions on these issues. They make it sound like democrats want to rip babies out of the womb at 9 months and kill them. Nobody wants to do this, except in case of some medical issue with the baby or the health of the mother. Defund the police, same thing. Few if any Democrats want to abolish the police, but that is how the republicans effectively painted it. And of course guns. Republicans make it sound like the democrats are going to abolish the second amendment an come take their guns. Again, serious distortion of the policies of most dems.

BTW, you forgot healthcare and immigration, which the Republican also distort and use very effectively for scare tactics.

 

[sportage]

People really don't know what they want or what is in their own best interest. Take Obamacare, republicans hate it UNTIL you start talking about taking away something like the pre-existing conditions clause or taking away the cap limits or taking away the children using the parents healthcare to age 26 clause, then suddenly they love it. But other than all that, republicans hate it. I think that republicans really don't know what they hate, they just follow the right wing propaganda noise. It damages their brain.

During the election, so many republican candidates had to promise that they would not mess with Obamacare's pre-existing conditions clause yet all of them had voted time after time to kill off that very protection clause by voting to kill off Obamacare. You'd think all of those republican voters out there would get a clue? Connect the dots. And I absolutely know for a fact that if republicans had voted for Hillary Clinton back in 2016, today they would love her. Hillary would have definitely been re-elected in 2020. That is always the way it is, but since republicans are so good at demonizing their opponents they never got the chance to elect or experience the real Hillary Clinton. The real Hillary Clinton that republicans would have compared to British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. The real Hillary Clinton that would have done more for republican women than any republican president male or female could have even done.

And... if president Joe Biden gets his democrat controlled senate and gives everyone universal healthcare, republicans will love that too. Republicans might not realize it now, but if and when universal healthcare happens and republicans experience it, republicans will simply fall in love with it. And, every future republican candidate will be promising, again, to dare not touch that universal healthcare that republicans have grown to love so much, just as the case with Obamacare's pre-existing clause.

Republicans are pretty much ass-holes at heart, they don't know what they want or what is good for them until a democrat gives it to them, then... they love it and can't imagine how they ever lived without it. Republicans are a lot more liberal than they want to admit. That's just the way it is, and you'd think they would wise up and start voting for and in their own best interests. You'd think....

 

[Starbuck1975]

This week Bill Maher was spot the fuck on that folks here should learn to take note of. I sincerely implore everyone here (that still has half a brain) to watch this video and sincerely think about your future goals.

Why You Lose Elections... And will Continue to Lose
One of the main crux that Democrats continue to say is that essentially Gerrymandering is the only thing keeping Republicans alive. If we just magically eliminate redistricting, we will magically consistently win everything. If anything, 2020 has proven this flat out wrong.


I know that most people here are simply too inept to take any sort of self-criticism, but try to take yourself out of that zone for just half a second and watch someone that consistently advocates for your own side.

America is ABSOLUTELY fucking tired of identity politics. As mentioned in the video - no actual Latins (ESPECIALLY non-Americanized Latins) want to be called Latinx. It's literally insulting to their language and culture. But here you on inciting your white privilege onto their culture + language to tell them how THEY should behave. Go figure. The irony is hilarious.

But here is the crux of the problem. You won't learn. Not a single person here on the left would dare take criticism of their own side - and will immediately duhvert any conversations revolving around criticism as a whataboutism, strawman, or complete diversion of the topic altogether. And that.... my friends... is why you are destined to keep recycling out who wins elections and mid-terms - because you can't for the life of you take any criticism and realize why you lose elections. It's much easier and takes less IQ points to just say "Well, they are all deplorables - nothing we can do here".


Inyet, you continue to do absolutely NOTHING but propping up nothing but rich white liberals that live in coastal cities. When it came to middle-class bailouts for COVID - what was one of the biggest things Pelosi + Schumer stood under? SALT (State & Local Tax) deduction caps. LOL. Something that literally only applies to the top 10% of folks that are able to itemize their tax returns and beat a $24,000 standard deduction. Go Figure. So that brings us to Biden's next plans... his amazing... progressive... HUUUUUUUUUUUGe changing plans....



Take a look at Biden's Tax Plan.
It makes sure to protect just about every single rich suburban liberals working cushy tech jobs of 6-figures. https://taxfoundation.org/joe-biden-tax-plan-2020/

Liberals VERY clearly continue to target the top 10% as they continue to attempt to appeal to that white upper-middle class central-parker that calls the police on black people. They continue to shit on the working class and not appeal to or acknowledge them in the slightest.

Inyet you keep ignoring all the polling, ballot initiatives, etc... that unanimously shows that America is the furthest thing from divided. Just take a look at who showed up to help out for this election for Biden.... Was it poor suffering minorities? Nope. Rich suburb whities. That's it.

But with ballot initiatives such as weed legalization in many state, raising the minimum wage in Florida, and declining Uber/Lyft Drivers in California as contractors the point remains the same.... We're actually pretty united.



So that brings us back to the election of 2020.....

Democrats lost minority votes. They gained in rich white suburban votes - many of which were likely temporary due to our current inept POTUS. You gained zero dedication of new voters - and instead simply swayed some rich educated class to temporarily abandon Trump. Bravo!

But guess what that means? It means come 2022 - we will have a Republican majority in Congress + Senate - and a Republican President consistently trading off every 4 or 8 years as well

All of this can be easily negated if you actually went back to the root of what you intended to stand behind which is the working class.... but you wont. and thus we will continue the same cycle. In the event of a crisis - you will continue to bailout banks while evicting the middle class. Enjoy your own self-deprecation.

Spoiler

I'm genuinely curious how many here are capable of any self-criticism. The answer is likely zero as seen by incompetent fools like eskimo.

Your question has been definitively answered

 

[cytg111]

Problem is the republicans are very effective at painting the democrats in extremist positions on these issues.

- I know. How do you propose to handle it?
If I was in charge of the dem PR propaganda machine I'd be running maga rallies side by side with the best of Adolfs, I'd hardcore market the GOP as the party of fascism, evil, Perl Harbor, enemy within etc.
And dial the most controversial polices back one notch or two.
Truth have never mattered. Only perception.

 

[pmv]

I never said anything is wrong with being a hair dresser. but a pure services economy where we produce nothing is not sustainable. A sustainainable economy needs to be 60% manufacturing, 40% services or all the capital will be consumed/sent outside the borders after a certain amount of time.

Put simply we need domestic manufacturing industry (both clean and dirty) to make our commercial and residential activities sustainable. if you have no physical things to sell, you eventually have nothing.

Though that's pretty much much the exact opposite of what has been conservative orthodoxy since Thatcher and Reagan privatised everything and sold it all to foreigners and let 'the market' decide what 'the economy needs' (in Thatcher's case letting all the manufacturing go bust leaving us exclusively with financial services). Seems as if you rightists really can't make your mind up what you want.

 

[ewdotson]

The plain truth is Evangelical Christianity was what founded this nation, and all its guiding principals. It is the one true way and everything else by definition is the cult.

Who's going to tell them about the Treaty of Tripoli?

 

[zinfamous]

The plain truth is Evangelical Christianity was what founded this nation, and all its guiding principals. It is the one true way and everything else by definition is the cult.

That's a plain lie. From where did you get this horseshit?

The MA colonies were death cult sociopaths that even the Dutch couldn't tolerate: THE DUTCH, FFS. what kind of despised group of humans do you have to be to piss off the Dutch?

Are you talking about the Founders--which were pretty much across the board Unitarian Universalists? You would call them atheists in practice, which is closer than being labeling them under any sort of "religion." How do you not know that? Do you just absorb whatever lies dumb people tell you?

Evangelism wasn't even a voice until the mid 60s when William F Buckley and Barry Goldwater failed to win the presidency with the new "Selfish conservatism," and then the repubs pivoted to start funneling in the sociopaths from that community of inbred cornfuckers, to recreate the base of the GOP under Nixon.

And that Barry Goldwater, who is without question the spiritual grandfather and founder of what became the "Reagan conservative movement" that you blindly worship like oh-so-many golden calves? That guy? Here's what he thinks about these sociopaths:

Anyway, it's hilarious how you don't even deny the assertion that evangelicals are the most dangerous people on the planet, and the sole source of violent terrorism in the US. You're just like: "Whatever, at least they're [well, a bunch of lies that only 8 year-olds believe]"

You idiots worship Trump. You fucking worship a serial rapist, child molester, multiple divorcee, adulterer, rabid atheist, utter garbage piece of shit human, and you fucking dare to claim any sort of moral superiority, or that the evil liberals are destroying the moral good of the US?

seriously: fuck the fuck off with that nonsense. Get your god damn brain checked because you are fundamentally, god damn broken. That is the most profound collection of mindless dumbfuckery to have to believe in a single human conscience. If you are admitting that this is a shared assertion across your community, then it's no wonder that evangelicals are so completely despised everywhere they go. Note: evangelicals, not Christians. The more you confuse the two terms, the more you seek to alienate your actual faith, whatever that is, because the vast majority of Christians in the world don't subscribe to your death cult of trapped ignorance and regressive human development.

fucking hyper-violent apocalyptic death cult sociopaths...there is really no tolerable avenue in this world for your kind of thinking to be acceptable. Ever.

 

[zinfamous]

The Conservative media did an impressive job the last 40 years of nonstop negative campaign against Hillary.People were tired of hearing about Hillary and decided that it was better to have Trump as President than another 4 years of negative Hillary stories and mostly violent riots. That's why the Red Wave 2020 pooped itself bigly.

there, edited for actual reality, and the one truth that really did bring us to this point.

 

[brycejones]

That's a plain lie. From where did you get this horseshit?

The MA colonies were death cult sociopaths that even the Dutch couldn't tolerate: THE DUTCH, FFS. what kind of despised group of humans do you have to be to piss off the Dutch?

Are you talking about the Founders--which were pretty much across the board Unitarian Universalists? You would call them atheists in practice, which is closer than being labeling them under any sort of "religion." How do you not know that? Do you just absorb whatever lies dumb people tell you?

Evangelism wasn't even a voice until the mid 60s when William F Buckley and Barry Goldwater failed to win the presidency with the new "Selfish conservatism," and then the repubs pivoted to start funneling in the sociopaths from that community of inbred cornfuckers, to recreate the base of the GOP under Nixon.

And that Barry Goldwater, who is without question the spiritual grandfather and founder of what became the "Reagan conservative movement" that you blindly worship like oh-so-many golden calves? That guy? Here's what he thinks about these sociopaths:

Anyway, it's hilarious how you don't even deny the assertion that evangelicals are the most dangerous people on the planet, and the sole source of violent terrorism in the US. You're just like: "Whatever, at least they're [well, a bunch of lies that only 8 year-olds believe]"

You idiots worship Trump. You fucking worship a serial rapist, child molester, multiple divorcee, adulterer, rabid atheist, utter garbage piece of shit human, and you fucking dare to claim any sort of moral superiority, or that the evil liberals are destroying the moral good of the US?

seriously: fuck the fuck off with that nonsense. Get your god damn brain checked because you are fundamentally, god damn broken. That is the most profound collection of mindless dumbfuckery to have to believe in a single human conscience. If you are admitting that this is a shared assertion across your community, then it's no wonder that evangelicals are so completely despised everywhere they go. Note: evangelicals, not Christians. The more you confuse the two terms, the more you seek to alienate your actual faith, whatever that is, because the vast majority of Christians in the world don't subscribe to your death cult of trapped ignorance and regressive human development.

fucking hyper-violent apocalyptic death cult sociopaths...there is really no tolerable avenue in this world for your kind of thinking to be acceptable. Ever.

You’re attempting to do the lords work. Unfortunately sao123 is gladly working for the devil and doesn’t care.

 

[IronWing]

The plain truth is Evangelical Christianity was what founded this nation, and all its guiding principals. It is the one true way and everything else by definition is the cult.

Evangelical Christianity as preached today is a product of the Great Awakening and did not even exist at the time of the founding.

 

[gothuevos]

It doesn't even matter. Even a shallow dive into RW Twitter and you will see the reality they have concocted for themselves, where the election was stolen and every guardrail designed to prevent a hostile takeover is just part of the "swamp." And I can't recall the number of times I saw "civil war" mentioned. And Parler is #1 on google play and the apple store, so this reality will perpetuate forever.

It's pretty clear that the US as it currently is will cease to exist in the next 10-20 years. More and more polls coming out showing large swaths of Republicans believing the election was rigged or stolen.

The question is, are we looking at an upcoming war, dissolution of the Union, or the GOP using this as a test run to actually overturn any and all future elections. Or some combination of the above?

We. Are. Done. Who knew that America's downfall would be a multi-bankrupt casino owner. I guess looking back at our crazy history, it's an American story as any.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Your question has been definitively answered

Ohhhh most assuredly it has lol.

I've just been sitting back reading the massive amounts of ignorance that is present on this forum as roughly 85% of the posts do what I expected - immediately divert the topic to "the other side".

Like I said, for as much as people proclaim to hate Trump, in hindsight their narcissistic actions clearly shows they idolize him.



Anyhow - enjoy Republicans winning over and over again and constantly telling yourself "Why? Everybody loves us!"

It's especially making me fall over laughing at folks saying the election is rigged for Republicans lol. Just read their posts in Trump's voice and it's just a perfect-o match.

 

[brycejones]

Ohhhh most assuredly it has lol.

I've just been sitting back reading the massive amounts of ignorance that is present on this forum as roughly 85% of the posts do what I expected - immediately divert the topic to "the other side".

Like I said, for as much as people proclaim to hate Trump, in hindsight their narcissistic actions clearly shows they idolize him.



Anyhow - enjoy Republicans winning over and over again and constantly telling yourself "Why? Everybody loves us!"

It's especially making me fall over laughing at folks saying the election is rigged for Republicans lol. Just read their posts in Trump's voice and it's just a perfect-o match.

Amazingly enough you've contributed nothing to your own thread. What do you think the Democrats should do specifically? What policies should they be advocating that would change the trend you believe you are seeing?

 

[ewdotson]

It's especially making me fall over laughing at folks saying the election is rigged for Republicans lol. Just read their posts in Trump's voice and it's just a perfect-o match.

"Rigged" is probably the wrong word, but it would be ridiculous to suggest that the GOP doesn't have a massive structural advantage in the current electoral system. The math on that is *super* clear. You yourself have been implicitly saying so with your "corrections" that popular vote doesn't matter. Which is, of course, the entire freaking point of what folks like fski have been saying.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

"Rigged" is probably the wrong word, but it would be ridiculous to suggest that the GOP doesn't have a massive structural advantage in the current electoral system. The math on that is *super* clear. You yourself have been implicitly saying so with your "corrections" that popular vote doesn't matter. Which is, of course, the entire freaking point of what folks like fski have been saying.

You mean the same "advantage" that was and is our defined electoral process for more than 200 years? That one?

 

[Thump553]

Then change the electoral college. Abolishing it would create far more problems that keeping it.

The ONLY reason we have a two party system-and not three or more-is because we have the electoral college. So all the professional politicians (Trump especially included) have a vested interest in preserving the electoral college.

I have absolutely no problem with abolishing the electoral college and switching to a parliamentary system. If Trump has shown us all nothing else it is that a President can marginalize half the country or more with impunity, to make absolutely no effort to address the disenfranchiseds' needs and wishes. The USA cannot successfully continue long down that path.

 

[ewdotson]

You mean the same "advantage" that was and is our defined electoral process for more than 200 years? That one?

Yes, that one. The fact that the system has been around for 200 years isn't an inherent virtue. It's started to show some pretty serious flaws the last several decades, and it's only getting more and more imbalanced.

But seriously, half this discussion has gone, "if you compare the results of the system with the popular vote, it shows how the system is breaking down." "No, our system doesn't follow the popular vote". You understand how that isn't actual a cogent argument, right?

 

[pmv]

You mean the same "advantage" that was and is our defined electoral process for more than 200 years? That one?

Yup. It was, after all, designed to protect the interests of the kind of people who designed it.

In any case, how it functions has changed as population distribution and social conditions have changed. The divergence between high and low population areas has increased considerably since the system was set up.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Ohhhh most assuredly it has lol.

I've just been sitting back reading the massive amounts of ignorance that is present on this forum as roughly 85% of the posts do what I expected - immediately divert the topic to "the other side".

Like I said, for as much as people proclaim to hate Trump, in hindsight their narcissistic actions clearly shows they idolize him.



Anyhow - enjoy Republicans winning over and over again and constantly telling yourself "Why? Everybody loves us!"

It's especially making me fall over laughing at folks saying the election is rigged for Republicans lol. Just read their posts in Trump's voice and it's just a perfect-o match.

I don’t agree with any of that, but Maher’s talking points are spot on. Political parties are increasingly defined by their fringe elements, and Maher offered a few very practical suggestions. Use common sense, don’t pander to Twitter as if it represents the electorate and tone down the virtue signaling rhetoric. Conor Lamb offers useful insights on this topic and I was glad to hear Maher reference him.

 

[dank69]

Don't know if this was posted yet but Kyle Kulinski had a good response to this. I think Maher is a sophist and generally dismiss him, but Kulinski takes on his arguments head-on.

Good video. I wonder if someonesmind will bother taking a few moments out of his bloviating time to watch it and maybe learn something.

I still do. So what?

It just signals to everyone here that you aren't capable of evaluating things rationally, but you do you.

Yes America is sick of Identity Politics.
Blue collar workers don't vote against their self interests, they just weigh the interests DIFFERENTLY.
Dems need to recognize that Blue collar workers will always vote to prevent bad social policy over good economic policy or they will just keep losing.

Yes, they weigh interests differently. For example, who gets to use which bathroom is MUCH more important than being able to find a job that pays the bills without a diploma or GED.

 

[cytg111]

It's especially making me fall over laughing at folks saying the election is rigged for Republicans lol. Just read their posts in Trump's voice and it's just a perfect-o match.

Why the fuck is it funny to you? You think its funny watching your countrymen suffer needlessly? And while yea, you can suggest that dems do some things differently, I have yet to see ANY rage or acknowledgement of the sheer fuckery that goppers are up to and getting away with. Yes it is rigged. Republicans suppress the vote *IT IS WHAT THEY DO* .. where the fuck is your stand against it? Twofaced *. Also, it is what it is, democrats cant point to it and cry "no fair" .. that aint gonna change shit.