My ex-gf's sister's boyfriend's parents owned a few franchises, and he once told me that you could start as a manager at McDonald's in the Mid-$20k range and if you performed well, go way higher than that. Although, based on the experiences of his parents, it seems that a few well-located franchises is VERY lucrative.
My ex-gf's sister's boyfriend's parents owned a few franchises, and he once told me that you could start as a manager at McDonald's in the Mid-$20k range and if you performed well, go way higher than that. Although, based on the experiences of his parents, it seems that a few well-located franchises is VERY lucrative.
I have two words for you: gub ment.
If you can pull it off, you should definitely get into a Government position of some kind. I know for a fact that the FBI was hiring a bunch of IT people recently because I applied, despite not having a degree. I managed to fall into a Government job that pays me $50k+ with Congressional pay increases each year (usually). I live in the Midwest too, so that is a pretty damn good salary for this area also. Really, at the moment, I'd seriously look into Government employment. It's the safest place to be right now in the job market.
Here, let me help you out a little bit.
FBI Job #1
FBI Job #2
NSA Job #1
NSA Job #2
Those are just a few I found in a couple of minutes. Gub ment is where it's at!
If you can pull it off, you should definitely get into a Government position of some kind. I know for a fact that the FBI was hiring a bunch of IT people recently because I applied, despite not having a degree. I managed to fall into a Government job that pays me $50k+ with Congressional pay increases each year (usually). I live in the Midwest too, so that is a pretty damn good salary for this area also. Really, at the moment, I'd seriously look into Government employment. It's the safest place to be right now in the job market.
Here, let me help you out a little bit.
FBI Job #1
FBI Job #2
NSA Job #1
NSA Job #2
Those are just a few I found in a couple of minutes. Gub ment is where it's at!
halik
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2000
- 25,696
- 1
- 0
Ok,
23k is laughable. Dont even wast your time THINKING about that "OFFER".
I am a sophomore at U of M and i work part time as a sys admin and java/xml developer for the School of Public Health. I get 12.50 an hour and totally flexible hours.
Walk away from that place as fast as you can...
Oh yeah one of my good friends has only hs diploma and up until maybe last month he was working at HP for 30/hr
23k is laughable. Dont even wast your time THINKING about that "OFFER".
I am a sophomore at U of M and i work part time as a sys admin and java/xml developer for the School of Public Health. I get 12.50 an hour and totally flexible hours.
Walk away from that place as fast as you can...
Oh yeah one of my good friends has only hs diploma and up until maybe last month he was working at HP for 30/hr
Maybe it depends on what job market you are in. I am in banking industry, and when I applied, they asked for my information (including salary) and they hired a PI to do a background check on me.
Of course, it could be because I have to manage a lot of money.
I don't know what the job market is like now, but when I graduated in Dec '99 with a BS in Supply Chain Management, I got a job for $42,000. I would think a Master's in CS would make more than that. My brother sets up inflatable attractions at parties as a college job, and makes $13/hour with full benefits. His W2 for last year, with bonuses and overtime, was just over $30,000.
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Wow, I live in Sunnyvale too. How can you afford to live here on so little $? I guess rents have come down, but still
I live at home, although I pray not for long...
virtuamike
Diamond Member
- Oct 13, 2000
- 7,845
- 13
- 81
I took a fulltime programming position with UCD 2 years into my CS degree for $36K. You're selling yourself short, I know lab assistants that make more than that.
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,589
- 5
- 0
When I left the service 20+ years ago, that was the salary for a post-grad engineer.
You are being low balled, however, use it to get some real worl experience.
There are not that many starting jobs around and you are not in a high deman geographical area. Check into Lockheed in Eagan, they may take a newbie.
You are being low balled, however, use it to get some real worl experience.
There are not that many starting jobs around and you are not in a high deman geographical area. Check into Lockheed in Eagan, they may take a newbie.
Svnla
Lifer
- Nov 10, 2003
- 17,986
- 1,388
- 126
I think it is a low offer but you will have to make a choice. How bad do you need the money? If you can make it for another few months, then don't take the job. If you have to have some cash flow, then take it for the experience and move on after you find something better.
It is also depend on the company. What are their benefits? Are they going to pay full coverage for your health care and such? Negotiate with them before you sign the dot line.
Talk with the employees at the company. Are they happy with the company or they can't stand it?
It is also depend on the company. What are their benefits? Are they going to pay full coverage for your health care and such? Negotiate with them before you sign the dot line.
Talk with the employees at the company. Are they happy with the company or they can't stand it?
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
by taking those offers you are screwing up the programmer wage. There are a ton of children living at home working for web shops with their parents footing all their bills for $10-12.50 here. I got a call from my resume posted by this fly-by-night (Private Number on CID)....talking to me as if he were my long lost friend on what it would take to get a 'guy like me' on his team.
Well right now I have a no level of debt and no job for the last two months and my self-pay will be gone in May so I my serious minimum is $33k USD/year (keep in mind that salary would not be the same in New York, Chicago or California)....so I told him $18 to start ($37k a year)...then he goes on about: "I have two kids doing this job for a little over half that, there is no reason to pay that much more."
So I went in to my explaination speech on what I have witnessed people as programmers do when they have no responsibilities or worry if they were to loose their job or become unemployable. We closed with he can go up to about $13 per hour but that was it.
MS certificates are great....I don't have any but these would open up a ton of jobs no questions asked.
Also with a $23000 wage on your salary history your next employer will base the new pay you are 'worth' on that. Many many employers now require this BS. If your salary history is not listed they disregard your application. It used to be you could state you will not supply that and you moved forward, now so many people are desperate for work they can get away with this and things like paying $10-15/hr for college graduates with experience.
I have also seen $30-35000 year positions for someone with 3-5 years experience, A+, MSCE, CCNP or better, etc etc etc.....the kicker is the job required a 50-55 hour work week ($35k a year becomes almost $12 per hour).
For me with low school loans, around $2 per hour goes to pay them.
Å
Well right now I have a no level of debt and no job for the last two months and my self-pay will be gone in May so I my serious minimum is $33k USD/year (keep in mind that salary would not be the same in New York, Chicago or California)....so I told him $18 to start ($37k a year)...then he goes on about: "I have two kids doing this job for a little over half that, there is no reason to pay that much more."
So I went in to my explaination speech on what I have witnessed people as programmers do when they have no responsibilities or worry if they were to loose their job or become unemployable. We closed with he can go up to about $13 per hour but that was it.
MS certificates are great....I don't have any but these would open up a ton of jobs no questions asked.
Also with a $23000 wage on your salary history your next employer will base the new pay you are 'worth' on that. Many many employers now require this BS. If your salary history is not listed they disregard your application. It used to be you could state you will not supply that and you moved forward, now so many people are desperate for work they can get away with this and things like paying $10-15/hr for college graduates with experience.
I have also seen $30-35000 year positions for someone with 3-5 years experience, A+, MSCE, CCNP or better, etc etc etc.....the kicker is the job required a 50-55 hour work week ($35k a year becomes almost $12 per hour).
For me with low school loans, around $2 per hour goes to pay them.
Å
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
Originally posted by: JoLLyRoGer
As far as MicroSuck certs go, here's my opinion of them... Stay Away (unless the company is paying), get UNIX certified, Cisco, Net +, A +, basically stuff that won't be worthless in a year when Micr$oft releases their next greatest brainfart.
MS certs are a good waste of thousands of dollars because according to the powers that be, the knowledge you gained with your 2000 MCSE cert is 100% worthless with 2003.
I don't think you have an understanding of the MS certs and how they apply to management. As IT guys go we all know they aren't hard to knock out with a few good books and a few weeks of nighttime study...but to management it makes their job simple. It's like options on a new car purchase.
Most employers are wanting MS certs + linux/unix certs which is stupid as I don't know many excellent cross-platform programmers in this day and age of things changing overnight. Most programmers I have encountered (even highly highly paid, code like hacks with no rhyme or reason to things)...
On top of that few companies have both Linux and MS running in production. There are some though and then that would be a plus that is used, but many are just listing each and every cert under the sun and putting 5 or more years professional experience in each. I have seen 2 jobs wanting 7 years or more experience in Windows 2003.
Å
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,589
- 5
- 0
You have the degree, get a commission. If you chose to come out after a few years, figure 15-25% increase over the average of some-one in your field. That is the value that a hitch as an officer will get you.
Your getting low balled, don't take it. You can find something lot better then $23k. Or take the offer and keep looking. Use that job offering as a backup, you have until May to look for else where.
Originally posted by: JoLLyRoGer
As far as MicroSuck certs go, here's my opinion of them... Stay Away (unless the company is paying), get UNIX certified, Cisco, Net +, A +, basically stuff that won't be worthless in a year when Micr$oft releases their next greatest brainfart.
MS certs are a good waste of thousands of dollars because according to the powers that be, the knowledge you gained with your 2000 MCSE cert is 100% worthless with 2003.
That's got to be one of the most uninformed posts I've seen in a while (on several levels, the most important of which is bolded, below). I'm not sure what power you're speaking of, but if you honestly think that learning Windows 2000 Server doesn't prepare you to learn Windows Server 2003, you're quite mistaken. That's like saying that you learn nothing about Windows XP Home by first learning Windows 98 - complete balderdash. One has its roots in the other. The operating systems are similar, at their cores. In fact, when I was learning about Linux, I was amazed at how little I needed to learn due to some core, shared fundamental concepts.
The EXAMS might be somewhat different... but one would hope that you're not taking exams just to get money. One would hope that you are attempting to further your career by gaining knowledge, then simply validating that knowledge by passing exams (and becoming certified).
Additionally, if you're only able to support clients that use Windows Server 2003, you've just cut out the majority of your client base, who don't yet use Windows Server 2003.
And, finally, and most importantly, the OP was speaking of the MCAD and MCDBA, not about the MCSE certifications. OS (2K vs 2003) is largely a moot point as far as programming certs are concerned, is it not? And what would a programmer gain by getting "UNIX certified, Cisco, Net +, A +"? Sounds like you just wanted to let your personal feelings about Microsoft vent out a little bit without carefuly reading the OP.
Now, to answer the OP's question: Experience beats certifications, hands down, every time. However, that doesn't mean that certifications are worthless. They simply show that you have achieved a benchmark level of skill with that technology. If you and your competition has the same level of skill, all things being equal, except one of you is certified and the other is not, guess who I'm going to consider hiring? Granted, it's easier to show someone some code than to show someone you know how to administer a network without the requisite certification to back you up... but at the VERY least, the employer knows you took the initiative to take the exams. As someone who has interviewed and reviewed people, let me tell you: initiative counts for a LOT.
My answer to you: do both, if you possibly can (experience + certs). While getting experience by working, get certified (especially if your employer pays for it). Go for whatever certifications thrill you (because if you're not doing what you enjoy, it's not worth it). If you like programming for MS-based OSes, go for the MCAD and MCSD. If you like database administration, go for the MCDBA or Oracle (OCA, OCP) certifications. But, for now, focus on a single path. If you don't enjoy it, change paths.
I hope this helps. If I can provide any further advice, shoot me a PM. I'd be happy to help. Plus, I've got quite a few programmer friends who are in or have recently been in the same situation as you find yourself in.
My advice is to keep looking. It sounds to me like you've already decided that you won't like working at this place. I have a friend who recently took a position (making twice the salary you listed and he has only one year of experience out of college) that he had reservations about, similar to what you listed. He quit after a week. Why go through the hassle of starting a new job if you're already apprehensive about it? Another job will come along, probably paying more; you definitely won't get many offers for less.
I'll give my two cents on certifications as I work directly in the certification industry. Don't worry about them right now. I highly suggest that you do attempt to go after certifications, but focus on getting a job first. The certifications will not greatly affect your salary at this point, and you just might be able to find a company that is willing to pay for them along the way. In about six months, when you are in a position you like and working for a good company, then get the certifications as a way to get promoted or to keep yourself up-to-date skills wise.
In regards to the zealot who says don't go after Microsoft certs, that person is misinformed. You'll want to go after the MCAD/MCSD, as well as possible other certs like the Java Certified Programmer from Sun, etc. My advice: anyone who tries to tell you not to go after MS certs in today's job environment should get their head out of their a$$ and realize that MS has one of the most highly recognized certifications in the world. Hate Microsoft if you want, but don't give people bad advice based solely on your zealotry.
At any rate, good luck on your job quest. Hope I've been of some service to you!
I'll give my two cents on certifications as I work directly in the certification industry. Don't worry about them right now. I highly suggest that you do attempt to go after certifications, but focus on getting a job first. The certifications will not greatly affect your salary at this point, and you just might be able to find a company that is willing to pay for them along the way. In about six months, when you are in a position you like and working for a good company, then get the certifications as a way to get promoted or to keep yourself up-to-date skills wise.
In regards to the zealot who says don't go after Microsoft certs, that person is misinformed. You'll want to go after the MCAD/MCSD, as well as possible other certs like the Java Certified Programmer from Sun, etc. My advice: anyone who tries to tell you not to go after MS certs in today's job environment should get their head out of their a$$ and realize that MS has one of the most highly recognized certifications in the world. Hate Microsoft if you want, but don't give people bad advice based solely on your zealotry.
At any rate, good luck on your job quest. Hope I've been of some service to you!
spamtly
Member
- Mar 18, 2004
- 51
- 1
- 0
The sad thing is that some guy in Pakistan or India with a PhD in Computer Science or Software Engineering would love to take the $23,000.00 (it's a reality folks). And they say that all of our IT Jobs are flying overseas. Its no wonder with what these companies are offering these days.
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