Wikileaks to out Arab officials in ties with the US

[Craig234]

So are you libertarian and far left supporters of oppressive Middle Eastern regimes rubbing your hands in glee?

Uh, 'far left' are not supporters of oppressive middle eatern regimes, who have been kept in power more by the *right* for a power agenda. I'm surprised it was you who said that.

Even the Libertarians are a misguided attack, as they're basically isolationists who also tend to not want these sorts of entanglements. Did I miss some sort of sarcasm?

 

[Craig234]

I'm interested in how this all plays out...

Important policy issues and people making huge sacrifices and taking huge risks to get information out is some sort of reality tv show to you?

This is a good issue to put a spotlight on how our rights often become weakened with lack of use, how many citizens really are in favor of a statist tyranny, and other things.

Simple question for you and anyone else: If you knew the US leaders had lied to the American people to get us in a war we were in, and you could expose information which would inform the public but might or might not change the policy but doing so would expose you to decades of prison, would you be part of the coverup, or leak it??

 

[William Gaatjes]

If they aren't given fair trials or are executed (I doubt that, these people probably won't be in any trouble) its not the fault of Assanage and I'm sure the citizens of their country they are supposed to be representing would like to know they are working for the CIA.

Wouldn't you like to know if one of your elected officials had ties to a foreign intelligence service?

I do not want to be mean to you, but you do realize i hope, that this is already the situation. People do politics to not go to war with each other. Every influential country has some hidden connections. It is the only way. You give a little, another gives a little. Only when one only gives and the other only takes, war will break out. Politics, sometimes dirty, but it beats the alternative which is war.

 

[Craig234]

Anyone here calling for assassination IMO is a murderer morally, worse than a serial child rapist. The armchair hides their moral deprivation.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Anyone here calling for assassination IMO is a murderer morally, worse than a serial child rapist. The armchair hides their moral deprivation.

Julian Assange must not be murdered. It is good that once in a while the dirty laundry comes out. Then the people of different nations can act and correct their political establishments. After that everything turns to normal, slowly dirty politics accumulate, another Assange rises and it starts again. A corrective loop. Afcourse this only works and can only work in democracies. Because the politicians will ask the questions on behalf of the people.

 

[Gyhrg71]

Democracy in Arab states is unsustainable. Not everyone wants or is able to live under Western values. Iraq would be one example; Gaza would be another; Iran the third; and we can go on and on.
It would be as immoral as any intervention inside a foreign society in the name of your values.

Thats nice. Good thing no but you is talking about forcing western values on them but you! Guess what, telling someone something, giving them information thats been hidden isn't forcing anything on them.

Looking through post history it appears you are incredibly racist towards Arabs too, and you not only believe Arabs are incapable of living in a Democracy but also the US should support brutal dictators in their country. That is forcing a government on people, and you assume they want/need it because you view them as inferior.

These were in the public domain, first published by Wikileaks. It makes little sense to go after NYT in such case. Had the material been leaked straight to them, it'd be different. Do you seriously think anyone can publish anything without being held accountable? It doesn't work like that even for commercial stuff, let alone this.

False. Wikileaks is working with the NYT, Guardian and Der Spiegiel to redact information and then release it to the public at the same time, so yes they are getting it straight from Wikileaks.

From the Pentagon:

The Pentagon has also told the US Senate and House armed services committees that the New York Times, the Guardian and Der Spiegel "are each currently working with WikiLeaks to co-ordinate the release of the documents".

 

[Gyhrg71]

I do not want to be mean to you, but you do realize i hope, that this is already the situation. People do politics to not go to war with each other. Every influential country has some hidden connections. It is the only way. You give a little, another gives a little. Only when one only gives and the other only takes, war will break out. Politics, sometimes dirty, but it beats the alternative which is war.

Unlike you I would rather know if my elected official was making secret deals and passing information to a foreign intelligence service.

 

[Throckmorton]

Uh, 'far left' are not supporters of oppressive middle eatern regimes, who have been kept in power more by the *right* for a power agenda. I'm surprised it was you who said that.

Even the Libertarians are a misguided attack, as they're basically isolationists who also tend to not want these sorts of entanglements. Did I miss some sort of sarcasm?

I don't understand how you can claim to oppose oppressive ME regimes, yet support Wikileaks releasing the identities of Afghan and Arab informants who help us...

Libertarians are anarchists who oppose diplomacy and any kind of foreign policy, but the left has just painted itself into a corner supporting Julian Assange. Now you're being forced to come up with all kinds of contorted reasoning to support outing of moderate Arabs and Afghans who help us in the fight vs right wing extremism and terrorism. When all else fails, you fall back on "prove that people died as a result of being outed" which misses the point completely.

In this case, Assange himself brought up the likelihood of coups. To him it's a game and to most people on this forum it's just something to argue about. I'm guessing I'm the only one here who has actually experienced a coup...

 

[William Gaatjes]

Unlike you I would rather know if my elected official was making secret deals and passing information to a foreign intelligence service.

I would like to know it too. But sometimes politics is not black and white.
The problem is that the past must be dragged along as well. As such it maybe is the best to present all secrets and start of new. When dirty deals are made, karma is going to get you. Because somewhere, someone is not going to forget.

But anyway, then you better start having talks with your officials.

 

[Infohawk]

This is just another reminder that Assange is a douche. You have two options: 1) The information will ultimately help the world but he is withholding it for his own sake. Selfish douche. 2) This information is harmful to the world but he would release it for his own sake. Selfish douche.

And all the Muslim apologists always say we need to make friends with moderate Muslims... but then their hero Assange wants to out these moderate Muslims and they scream out in ecstasy.

 

[al981]

From here



Nice, so now Assange is playing god. Of course, no one thinks these Arab officials are going to have "fair trials" - that is not a condition which often occurs in the Arab world - they will probably be facing death.

This is an interesting development as it means Assange is taking an active stance against US and its interests among the Arab world (and the interests of Arab regimes themselves). So far he could claim neutrality, but that's no longer the case.

it's a secret the middle eastern elite were selling out their own people to appease white oil interests??? facing death? cool.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

This is just another reminder that Assange is a douche. You have two options: 1) The information will ultimately help the world but he is withholding it for his own sake. Selfish douche. 2) This information is harmful to the world but he would release it for his own sake. Selfish douche.

And all the Muslim apologists always say we need to make friends with moderate Muslims... but then their hero Assange wants to out these moderate Muslims and they scream out in ecstasy.

Before you get drawn in too far, read the quoted material in the OP. Assange says he has the material, but he hasn't said he'd release it unconditionally. Many of the responses disregards that and skips to "wikileaks to out" misstatement, which seems quite intentional.

BTW, Assange is a douche, but that doesn't mean that he's going release everything he has. If that was the criteria here think how many members would fit that description

 

[Zebo]

Assange may get at least one dude executed ( I am sure there are more)

http://www.newser.com/story/108734/wikileaks-could-get-a-good-man-executed.html

 

[Infohawk]

Before you get drawn in too far, read the quoted material in the OP. Assange says he has the material, but he hasn't said he'd release it unconditionally. Many of the responses disregards that and skips to "wikileaks to out" misstatement, which seems quite intentional.

BTW, Assange is a douche, but that doesn't mean that he's going release everything he has. If that was the criteria here think how many members would fit that description

Sorry, even beyond the headline it's pretty clear what he's doing. Also I have no I idea what you're getting at in your last sentence.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Sorry, even beyond the headline it's pretty clear what he's doing. Also I have no I idea what you're getting at in your last sentence.

He says he has the material. He says he won't release it unless he's sure no material harm comes to those he can name. That's not what the title says.

As far as the last sentence goes Assage is a douche. So are a lot of people on the forum. Too subtle.

 

[Throckmorton]

Assange may get at least one dude executed ( I am sure there are more)

http://www.newser.com/story/108734/wikileaks-could-get-a-good-man-executed.html

I would love an explanation of the greater good served by releasing this. Let me guess, he shouldn't be acting against Mugabe in the first place?

 

[Throckmorton]

He says he has the material. He says he won't release it unless he's sure no material harm comes to those he can name. That's not what the title says.

As far as the last sentence goes Assage is a douche. So are a lot of people on the forum. Too subtle.

Sounds like a sick joke to me. How do you out our Arab informants without putting people in danger, not to mention our ability to do foreign policy? Did you notice he acknowledged that coups would happen? No one dies in a coup?

 

[Infohawk]

He says he has the material. He says he won't release it unless he's sure no material harm comes to those he can name. That's not what the title says.

As far as the last sentence goes Assage is a douche. So are a lot of people on the forum. Too subtle.

There is no way to reveal that kind of information without "material harm" coming of it. That's ridiculous. Like threatening someone that you will shoot them in the head but only do so if no material harm comes of it.

So your second point is just a lame ad hominem. It's not subtle it's just stupid since most posters have little or nothing in common with Assange.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

There is no way to reveal that kind of information without "material harm" coming of it. That's ridiculous. Like threatening someone that you will shoot them in the head but only do so if no material harm comes of it.

So your second point is just a lame ad hominem. It's not subtle it's just stupid since most posters have little or nothing in common with Assange.

Oy.

Then perhaps the material won't be released. That seems to be an option you hadn't considered.

The second was a lame joke. I overestimated your sense of humor. My bad.

 

[Infohawk]

Then perhaps the material won't be released. That seems to be an option you hadn't considered.

In that case he's a liar. Any more bright options you think I haven't considered?

 

[Throckmorton]

Oy.

Then perhaps the material won't be released. That seems to be an option you hadn't considered.

The second was a lame joke. I overestimated your sense of humor. My bad.

If that is a joke, you overestimated your OWN sense of humor

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

In that case he's a liar. Any more bright options you think I haven't considered?

Yes.

Alice says to Bob- "I have something to say, but I will only say it if I can be assured that condition X is met."

Alice never determines that X occurs, therefore Alice does not tell Bob what she knows.

Demonstrate from the above that Alice lied.

Good luck.

 

[Throckmorton]

Guess what, Tsvangirai IS being charged with treason http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE6BO04G20101225?sp=true

"The WikiLeaks appear to show a treasonous collusion between local Zimbabweans and the aggressive international world, particularly the United States," Tomana said in a statement.


WikiLeaks has released several U.S. cables on Zimbabwe, including one on a senior Tsvangirai ally seeking Washington's support to establish a fund to buy-off the country's security service chief who are loyal to Mugabe and ZANU-PF.

 

[Infohawk]

Yes.

Alice says to Bob- "I have something to say, but I will only say it if I can be assured that condition X is met."

Alice never determines that X occurs, therefore Alice does not tell Bob what she knows.

Demonstrate from the above that Alice lied.

Good luck.

If X is "releasing the identity of Arabs who cooperate with the CIA only if no harm comes to them" then he's an idiot because that's obviously not possible. So he's an idiot, liar, or a douche... pick whichever one makes feels better about your idol.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

If X is "releasing the identity of Arabs who cooperate with the CIA only if no harm comes to them" then he's an idiot because that's obviously not possible. So he's an idiot, liar, or a douche... pick whichever one makes feels better about your idol.

So you got nothing.

I don't know what Assange will do, but he hasn't lied about this. Now if he releases information and someone gets killed then you may say he lied. Someone may seize on anything at all no matter how trivial in order to make an excuse. Well we do it all the time. Aluminum tubes. We'll see and how valid the "reasoning" to use it is.

The problem is that anyone who doesn't drip spittle over the keyboard is sees Assange as an idol. I think he's an asshole, but then again I am more concerned about little things like how we caused hundreds of thousands to die for a specious war and that there is no accountability for it, or those tiny little details about how we tend to not blink when talking about overthrowing legitimate governments when it's in our best financial interest. Petty stuff.

Here's one thing I hope comes from all this and that's we'll be a little less secure about causing the deaths of uncounted innocents in the name of global positioning. Maybe someone will think about this and while they don't give a shit about anyone other than their agenda, their ass may be on the line if they get caught.

There may come a time when Assange screws the pooch in fact not in some "the sky is falling" sense and I reserve the right to say anything about him I like, but I'll hang him for cause, not because he upset the tin god.