Wife refueled her car with Engine still running!?!?!

[SonicIce]

Originally posted by: LoKe

Originally posted by: KB
Being that I am a man I know I am right.. but how right am I?

You've gotta be kidding me.

:Q your not a cat anymore, or whatever u were before

 

[SonicIce]

Originally posted by: sao123
The ignorance in this thread is strong. What all you non-mechanics dont understand, is that DC current is traveling through the frame of the car, while it is running. Since there is DC current running through the frame, there is risk of a spark igniting the fuel vapors. How do I know this? a)This is why when you jumper a car, you connect red to red, and black to engine block or frame. b)This is why your self installed juiced up stereo shuts off if not properly grounded the the frame. (Theres no ground in your automobile, its just the black terminal of your battery is wired directly to your cars frame.) So now, what does that mean? You can actually have a fire even if the key is in the "accessories mode only" You must completely remove the key from the ignition to eliminate all danger of accidental fire. Cant believe im the only one to point this out.

the gas tank is on the car the whole time. how is that differant than when you're putting more gas in?

 

[OutHouse]

go to North Dakota, Montana, or Minnesota or the Michigan U.P. in the winter and you will see the majority of the people refuel with the engine on. The strangest thing is going to the grocery store and seeing the parking lot full of cars with the engine running with the people inside shopping. very very common up there.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: SonicIce

Originally posted by: sao123
The ignorance in this thread is strong. What all you non-mechanics dont understand, is that DC current is traveling through the frame of the car, while it is running. Since there is DC current running through the frame, there is risk of a spark igniting the fuel vapors. How do I know this? a)This is why when you jumper a car, you connect red to red, and black to engine block or frame. b)This is why your self installed juiced up stereo shuts off if not properly grounded the the frame. (Theres no ground in your automobile, its just the black terminal of your battery is wired directly to your cars frame.) So now, what does that mean? You can actually have a fire even if the key is in the "accessories mode only" You must completely remove the key from the ignition to eliminate all danger of accidental fire. Cant believe im the only one to point this out.

the gas tank is on the car the whole time. how is that differant than when you're putting more gas in?

the gas tank is an air tight container made of a non-conductive hard plastic which will not dissolve into the gasoline. The only way for a spark to get into the tank is during the refueling process.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: Citrix
go to North Dakota, Montana, or Minnesota or the Michigan U.P. in the winter and you will see the majority of the people refuel with the engine on. The strangest thing is going to the grocery store and seeing the parking lot full of cars with the engine running with the people inside shopping. very very common up there.

I've lived in wisconsin for 12 years, and even lived in northern wisconsin for a year, and have seen this less than 10 times. Maybe the UPers are different. They certainly talk like they might be a bit mental.

 

[chambersc]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: rbV5

" You must completely remove the key from the ignition to eliminate all danger of accidental fire. Cant believe im the only one to point this out.

How does removing the key eliminate ALL danger of accidental fire? Ignorance is strong, you're right about that :roll:

I only speak of accidental fire from vehicle spark. Removing the keys, wont stop you from blowing up if you smoke while refueling. :roll::roll::roll:

How about if your cell phone rings? :roll::roll::roll::roll: 🙂

that's why there are signs posted on all pumps saying to not use cell phones around gas pumps.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
At -40 you DO NOT turn off your car to pump gas. When I fill up in the winter my car is on. In the summer I turn it off.

True, but at -40 gasoline is well below its flash point.
Now out here in the Mojave Desert.................

 

[DrPizza]

As someone said above, ignorance is strong in this thread...
Perhaps because it's the middle of summer (for us Northern Hemisphere folks) and that so many of you live in warmer climates, you've all forgotten that for a significant portion of the year, it's freezing out for those of us in the northern states...

So, why do we leave the engine running? Too keep the inside nice and warm (or to start to warm the inside of the car.)

The idea that "fumes will ignite on the hot engine" makes as much sense as this: "My engine over-heated on the way home, so I turned the car off, then back on again so it could re-start at a cool temperature." Of course, I suppose the catalytic converter, having such a high temperature (greater difference from surrounding air temp) would see significant cooling at first per Newton's law of cooling. Nonetheless, it's silly to think that these hot surfaces have more than a remote chance of igniting fumes while you're refueling. You've already taken a much higher risk simply by walking out the door of your house and getting into the car in the first place. MUCH MUCH higher risk.

Oh, and cigarettes igniting gasoline? You've been watching too many movies. When the bad guy tosses the lit cigarette into the puddle of gasoline causing the gasoline to ignite, you're watching movie magic. Something else is used to ignite the gasoline. I'd say try this at home, but I really don't want someone hurt in that 1 in 100 or 1 in 1 million chance of igniting the vapor... I don't know the exact odds, but they aren't good. If they were, I wouldn't be complaining when a breeze blew out my match while I was trying to start a fire.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: rbV5

" You must completely remove the key from the ignition to eliminate all danger of accidental fire. Cant believe im the only one to point this out.

How does removing the key eliminate ALL danger of accidental fire? Ignorance is strong, you're right about that :roll:

I only speak of accidental fire from vehicle spark. Removing the keys, wont stop you from blowing up if you smoke while refueling. :roll::roll::roll:

How about if your cell phone rings? :roll::roll::roll::roll: 🙂

I Call shens on that, the MythBusters proved this false.

 

[dmcowen674]

Has this woman been arrested yet for her heinous crimes?

She poses a grave danger to the entire area of the station that can be engulfed by subsequent explosion and fire.

 

[carloboy]

weather ppl do it and nothing happens to them, i would rather stay safe and turn OFF the engine and refuel. Besides, burning gas and pumping more in is stupid.

 

[dug777]

I've refueled many bits of farm eqpt with the engine running...

 

[B00ne]

I i dont know if it is nuts - but wehy would anyone leave the engine running when not driving. Dont these ppl have no conscience (environmentally)?

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: LoKe

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
You will waste more fuel running while refilling that restarting the car.

I heard otherwise. But from what I've noticed, you've got a lot of experience in the field, so I guess I just learned something. 🙂

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
The law in most states REQUIRES you to TURN OFF vehicle before using the pump.

But is that for safety, or so the person doesn't just hop in and drive away?

a) Federal DOT had issued a study back before most of the people here were a gleem in their parents hormones that starting a vehicle used the equivalent of 30 seconds worth of idle. This was done during the legit gas crisis of the 70s.

Todays engines are be more efficient (~ 100-200%). Therefore lets allow equivalent idling time to go from 30 seconds to 90 seconds.

How many people will pump gas and/or run into the store inside a 90 second window.

Drive-thrus are one heck of a gas waster.

b) Laws were presumably put in place for safety purposes. Laws already existed for theft of service/goods.

I doubt that is true (the ignition using 30 sec worth of idle) fuel saving cars (VW Lupo 3l for ex.) have an automatic start stop and turn off whenever you stop and restart when you tap the gas...

 

[squirrel dog]

Newer cars will give you a check engine light if you fuel up with the engine running .

 

[starwars7]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Well, IIRC, it's illegal to fuel any vehicle while the engine is running. Granted, it takes several things to happen to cause a fire, but undoubtedly it can and has happened, thus the law...

QFT

she should not do it because she is not supposed to, regardless of the potential risk or not.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: starwars7

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Well, IIRC, it's illegal to fuel any vehicle while the engine is running. Granted, it takes several things to happen to cause a fire, but undoubtedly it can and has happened, thus the law...

QFT

she should not do it because she is not supposed to, regardless of the potential risk or not.

You sound like a fan of blindly following laws, regardless of the fact is they make sense or not. You're a model citizen (sheep), an oppressive government's dream.

 

[agentK]

Don't know if this was posted already as there are 4 pages and haven't read them all...
Mythbusters on the Discovery Channel busted the myth about cellphones and gas pumps. They believe that statis electricity might be a more possible source of gas fires than cellphone radiation. They create a make shift chamber filled with air and gasoline fumes. Fist, they put an automated machine that will rub a pipe to create static electricity inside the chamber. Static happens, but no ignition. They up things a bit, try a Leyden Jar. Bigger spark. Still no ignition. They try saturating the air/fuel mixture. Still no ignition. They end up using a lighter or something else just because they wanna blow it up.
Conclusion, conditions have to be right to cause a proper ignition from refueling... but IT CAN HAPPEN.
just, not as easily as what was thought though.
My two cents.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: SonicIce

Originally posted by: sao123
The ignorance in this thread is strong. What all you non-mechanics dont understand, is that DC current is traveling through the frame of the car, while it is running. Since there is DC current running through the frame, there is risk of a spark igniting the fuel vapors. How do I know this? a)This is why when you jumper a car, you connect red to red, and black to engine block or frame. b)This is why your self installed juiced up stereo shuts off if not properly grounded the the frame. (Theres no ground in your automobile, its just the black terminal of your battery is wired directly to your cars frame.) So now, what does that mean? You can actually have a fire even if the key is in the "accessories mode only" You must completely remove the key from the ignition to eliminate all danger of accidental fire. Cant believe im the only one to point this out.

the gas tank is on the car the whole time. how is that differant than when you're putting more gas in?

the gas tank is an air tight container made of a non-conductive hard plastic which will not dissolve into the gasoline. The only way for a spark to get into the tank is during the refueling process.

OK, you don't know what you're talking about. Plastic? LOL! Maybe some cars, but a CRAPLOAD of them have nice, metal tanks.

Also, while it is true that your car's frame is grounded to the battery, there will not be a spark when you put in the nozzle to refuel, because THERE IS NO POTENTIAL. Electricity does not "flow" without a potential.

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
a) Federal DOT had issued a study back before most of the people here were a gleem in their parents hormones that starting a vehicle used the equivalent of 30 seconds worth of idle. This was done during the legit gas crisis of the 70s.

Todays engines are be more efficient (~ 100-200%). Therefore lets allow equivalent idling time to go from 30 seconds to 90 seconds.

You mean...back when they were using carburated engines? And you're trying to use efficiency figures on modern engines to project that ancient data on fuel consumed during startup? Better look at where that efficiency comes from...modern fuel injected engines are not at all the same. Not to mention that cold startup and warm startup are miles apart.

If those figures were at all true, then why does the Toyota Prius shut down and restart the gasoline engine time and again in order to get maximum mileage? Wouldn't it make more sense to just leave it idling?

 

[TallBill]

I've done it a few times, but im just used to shutting my car off. Not really scared of blowing up or whatever.

 

[zerocool1]

Originally posted by: GarlicBreath
Why should it matter? If engine fire was going to get back into the gas tank, it would happen whether or not you had the gas cap off.

umm ... there's such a thing as gas vapor?

Also insurance will not cover you if there is a fire, especially if it is against the law in the area you live.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: SonicIce

Originally posted by: sao123
The ignorance in this thread is strong. What all you non-mechanics dont understand, is that DC current is traveling through the frame of the car, while it is running. Since there is DC current running through the frame, there is risk of a spark igniting the fuel vapors. How do I know this? a)This is why when you jumper a car, you connect red to red, and black to engine block or frame. b)This is why your self installed juiced up stereo shuts off if not properly grounded the the frame. (Theres no ground in your automobile, its just the black terminal of your battery is wired directly to your cars frame.) So now, what does that mean? You can actually have a fire even if the key is in the "accessories mode only" You must completely remove the key from the ignition to eliminate all danger of accidental fire. Cant believe im the only one to point this out.

the gas tank is on the car the whole time. how is that differant than when you're putting more gas in?

the gas tank is an air tight container made of a non-conductive hard plastic which will not dissolve into the gasoline. The only way for a spark to get into the tank is during the refueling process.

the tank on my truck and on my minivan are steel not plastic.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: agentK
Don't know if this was posted already as there are 4 pages and haven't read them all...
Mythbusters on the Discovery Channel busted the myth about cellphones and gas pumps. They believe that statis electricity might be a more possible source of gas fires than cellphone radiation. They create a make shift chamber filled with air and gasoline fumes. Fist, they put an automated machine that will rub a pipe to create static electricity inside the chamber. Static happens, but no ignition. They up things a bit, try a Leyden Jar. Bigger spark. Still no ignition. They try saturating the air/fuel mixture. Still no ignition. They end up using a lighter or something else just because they wanna blow it up.
Conclusion, conditions have to be right to cause a proper ignition from refueling... but IT CAN HAPPEN.
just, not as easily as what was thought though.
My two cents.

Wish I had seen this one. I do know that gasoline will ignite with an open flame. Gas will ignite when compressed past a certain point. Gas will ignite with a spark while compressed. Never tested it without compression. BUT, the air/fuel mixture has to be correct to make a good burn (15:1) going. If they got the ratio too rich or lean, it may not work at all. Just not sure without compression.

Do you remember if they made sure the air/fuel ratio was 15:1 for their experiment?

BTW, I have seen gasoline fires at the race track. I got burned by one putting out the drivers. The racing fuel (115 octane Sonoco Purple) looked like hot lava pouring out of the ruptured fuel bladder onto the race track. I did not know that the flames were not only over my head, but well over the height of the old bridge in turn 1 at Road Atlanta. I always turn off the car, fuss at smokers (there can be flames in cigs while drawing in, but you can throw a modern cig into gas and it should not ignite it), and discharge the pump to car before inserting the fuel hose. After you have been in a big gas fire, you tend to be more cautious.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: SonicIce

Originally posted by: sao123
The ignorance in this thread is strong. What all you non-mechanics dont understand, is that DC current is traveling through the frame of the car, while it is running. Since there is DC current running through the frame, there is risk of a spark igniting the fuel vapors. How do I know this? a)This is why when you jumper a car, you connect red to red, and black to engine block or frame. b)This is why your self installed juiced up stereo shuts off if not properly grounded the the frame. (Theres no ground in your automobile, its just the black terminal of your battery is wired directly to your cars frame.) So now, what does that mean? You can actually have a fire even if the key is in the "accessories mode only" You must completely remove the key from the ignition to eliminate all danger of accidental fire. Cant believe im the only one to point this out.

the gas tank is on the car the whole time. how is that differant than when you're putting more gas in?

the gas tank is an air tight container made of a non-conductive hard plastic which will not dissolve into the gasoline. The only way for a spark to get into the tank is during the refueling process.

the tank on my truck and on my minivan are steel not plastic.

QFT - they warn welders in welding classes about the cautions that are to be used fixing fuel tanks. There are modern tanks that are plastic.

 

[agentK]

Originally posted by: gsellis
Do you remember if they made sure the air/fuel ratio was 15:1 for their experiment?

I don't think they were that accurate in measuring the air/fuel ratio as far as i remember. They just kept adding gas vapors when things didn't explode. 😀