Bignate603
Lifer
- Sep 5, 2000
- 13,897
- 1
- 0
This isn't a bad idea. If you're not planning to die in this house it needs to be something other people are going to want. Make your house nice and what you want, but avoid things that only most people aren't going to think of as a selling point. Make your personal touches through easily changeable things, like paint and furniture.
Fritzo
Lifer
- Jan 3, 2001
- 41,920
- 2,161
- 126
A lot of builders are doing a 5% deposit, they build it, and THEN you get the loan (land and house bundled together). It makes it easier to get the loan, you don't need as much money up front, and if things fall through the builder can sell the house to someone else without the bank being involved.
Make sure you do a sanity check for real estate in your area. In some parts of the country real estate is selling below replacement costs which makes building unattractive.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 34
- 91
Imp
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2000
- 18,828
- 184
- 106
Have you looked into or thought about just buying something and gutting it?
If the kitchen is your main concern, buy a house you like, then guyt he thing until there are barely any walls, or you tell the contractor to put the walls where to make your ideal kitchen.
I'm a casual, unlicensed structural "engineer" - design structures for architects whom's clients are usually rich people. I've done guts and multi-million dollar brand new, super fancy houses. Most of the projects I've done, the bottom floor is opened up, while most upper floors are kept relatively similar. Point is that if find that it's cheaper to buy something already built, there are a LOT of options and you can do practically anything you want within the available floor space. Only issue is money...
My impression of the housing market in the US of A is that it's at/near bottoming with a glut of foreclosures being withheld from the market right now, so cheaper to buy?
If the kitchen is your main concern, buy a house you like, then guyt he thing until there are barely any walls, or you tell the contractor to put the walls where to make your ideal kitchen.
I'm a casual, unlicensed structural "engineer" - design structures for architects whom's clients are usually rich people. I've done guts and multi-million dollar brand new, super fancy houses. Most of the projects I've done, the bottom floor is opened up, while most upper floors are kept relatively similar. Point is that if find that it's cheaper to buy something already built, there are a LOT of options and you can do practically anything you want within the available floor space. Only issue is money...
My impression of the housing market in the US of A is that it's at/near bottoming with a glut of foreclosures being withheld from the market right now, so cheaper to buy?
Get the divorce 1st.
Then decide to go into the project together ... which will probably pull you back together.
Then decide to go into the project together ... which will probably pull you back together.
SillyOReilly
Golden Member
- Aug 11, 2007
- 1,532
- 6
- 81
Humpy
Diamond Member
- Mar 3, 2011
- 4,464
- 596
- 126
My advice is to get involved and educated so you understand exactly what you are buying. In addition to relying on an architect and contractor, study the information available at buildingscience.com, join the forums at Fine Home Building and the Journal of Light Construction and ask a lot of questions, etc. Learn where your typical builder and architect is going to cut corners and prevent it.
If you don't have the time to get involved, and it will take a lot of your time, it may be better to buy something where someone else has already paid for the mistakes.
If you don't have the time to get involved, and it will take a lot of your time, it may be better to buy something where someone else has already paid for the mistakes.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
This, absolutely. There are thousands upon thousands of homes already designed.
Ditto the advice on the contractor.
Humpy
Diamond Member
- Mar 3, 2011
- 4,464
- 596
- 126
I would change that to say stock house plans are already partially designed and a could be decent way to start. One would not be able to take a set of plans purchased online directly to the permit office or put them out to bid.
A ton of things depend on the site location. In-state architect and engineer stamps may be required, and it is usually illegal for them to stamp someone else's plans. Someone has to draw a site plan and maybe framing and foundation plans. Substantial revisions may also be needed depending on local code and climate zone, etc.
To get realistic bids from builders someone has to complete door, window, hardware, and finish schedules, also electrical, plumbing, and hvac plans along with their fixture and equipment schedules, etc, plus whatever changes the customer wants.
Some builders may do all this work for "free" :biggrin: but most of it has to be done with off the shelf plans. Still, it may be less expensive than hiring a full service architect.
Last edited:
As a side note if I were building a house today I would build it to be energy independent. Solar power is already there. There's thermal heating and all kinds of cool techs depending on where you live that you can take advantage of so that you never need to pay for heating or electricity again. They pay for themselves pretty quickly now.
Watch out for those permit cost, I know someone who built their own home and the permits them self cost around 50,000.
There are permits to the city, the county, the school district, and others places. Everyone needed their share.
There are permits to the city, the county, the school district, and others places. Everyone needed their share.
Humpy
Diamond Member
- Mar 3, 2011
- 4,464
- 596
- 126
That's one of the major advantages of building new. Those systems can be fully integrated into a high efficiency structure in a way that is typically unfeasible with an existing building.
Find out who the inspectors are and befriend them. Not so that things will pass easily, but that they don't. A lot of builder know the inspectors and get away with a ton of crap. When I built my office the electrical inspector walked through the place with his eyes closed, because of who I know, he thought he was doing me a favor. I WANTED him to INSPECT the work not just pass it. Be there when the inspections happen, if you can not be there look to hire another contractor as your own personal inspector. Document EVERYTHING you see that does not look right. Take pictures of everything, keep email threads for years to come, so that when you find out there is an issue you brought up that was not addresses you have proof he was informed. DO NOT TREAT YOUR BUILDER LIKE A FRIEND!! When the house is done and you are happy, then take him out for a beer and dinner, not before.
As for the building itself:
Look into ICF, closed cell spray foam, geothermal HVAC \ in floor radiant heat, concrete or aluminum\galvanized shingles. Go all out and do all split 2xX" exterior walls so that you can do a complete blanket of spray foam that is not interrupted by the studs.
And on and on!!
As for the building itself:
Look into ICF, closed cell spray foam, geothermal HVAC \ in floor radiant heat, concrete or aluminum\galvanized shingles. Go all out and do all split 2xX" exterior walls so that you can do a complete blanket of spray foam that is not interrupted by the studs.
And on and on!!
kranky
Elite Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 21,019
- 156
- 106
I know I would not attempt to design a house myself. What do I know about designing houses? I'd end up with a house that had some good features and some that I would hate because I didn't know enough. I would tell the architect what is important to you and see what the architect can come up with that incorporates your needs and wants. It was mentioned earlier, but a house that is "too custom" can be very tough to sell. I had a neighbor with a house like that - it was their first house and they loved it's uniqueness when they bought it. 20 years later they wanted to move to something more traditional. The house sat empty for 10 months while they paid two mortgages, and ended up selling it for $50K less than their original asking price (which was "priced to sell" from the start). The house was just too unusual to appeal to the general public. If you are going to live there until you die, then you can go crazy, but that's not usually the case.
I never met anyone who had a house custom-built that didn't say "There are things I would change next time." That tells me everyone who went down that road found out they didn't really know exactly how to design a house.
Don't assume that a custom built home means you will get a quality construction job. The contractors all know each other so they aren't going to nitpick each other's work, their top concern is getting done so they can move on to the next job, and above all - remember in most cases the work is being done by the lowest bidder.
The quality of construction work today is not equal to what it was 30 years ago or more. It's a "get in-get done-get out" mentality with little interest in quality. I really like SNC's suggestion of having another contractor hired to be present at inspections. Your general contractor might be the most quality conscious guy in the world, but he's not doing all the work personally, nor is he there watching every single person every day.
Don't assume that your builder will be there after the project is finished. Your leverage to get things corrected is before you write the final check so don't accept any promises of "we'll come back later to take care of those things".
I never met anyone who had a house custom-built that didn't say "There are things I would change next time." That tells me everyone who went down that road found out they didn't really know exactly how to design a house.
Don't assume that a custom built home means you will get a quality construction job. The contractors all know each other so they aren't going to nitpick each other's work, their top concern is getting done so they can move on to the next job, and above all - remember in most cases the work is being done by the lowest bidder.
The quality of construction work today is not equal to what it was 30 years ago or more. It's a "get in-get done-get out" mentality with little interest in quality. I really like SNC's suggestion of having another contractor hired to be present at inspections. Your general contractor might be the most quality conscious guy in the world, but he's not doing all the work personally, nor is he there watching every single person every day.
Don't assume that your builder will be there after the project is finished. Your leverage to get things corrected is before you write the final check so don't accept any promises of "we'll come back later to take care of those things".
roguerower
Diamond Member
- Nov 18, 2004
- 4,563
- 0
- 76
Find a set of pre-designed plans that you like and then modify them to your liking.
It was said above, but since it doesn't sound like you're in construction, don't act as the GC. You don't know enough about the components or the construction methodology to ensure that construction is occuring as it's supposed to.
Make sure you hold retainage on the GC that you hire in case something goes to shit and try to get a warranty on workmanship (commercial is usually a year).
Pick out all of your finishes ahead of time. Tile, Flooring, Paint, Doors, Hardware, Grilles & Diffusers, Millwork. Make sure you get quotes for them in advance so you can compare the contractor quote down the road. One other thing to look into is buying the material in advance as that's one less item that the sub can mark-up or fuck you over on.
Buy a camera and hold weekly inspections, even if they're only on the weekend and then send a list of deficiencies when you're done. You don't have to walk-through with the builder, but him knowing that you're there every weekend inspecting the work will help shift his ass. That and you've got proof if something fails. Contractors will complain about anything and everything, but when you give them a photo and email documentation showing you brought up the issue they'll shut up ricky-tick. Never fails.
As far as sustainability goes, make sure you put your money into something useful, not a gimmick. Solar is cool, but it's a fucking black hole and not worth it in my opinion. Geothermal drilling to offset the cost of heating and cooling is a much better solution for your money. Put instant water heaters in bathrooms that will rarely be used, that way you can get a smaller tank and cut down on heating costs. Indirect flourescent strips on dimmers for the kitchen and bathrooms along with built in motion detectors if you have a habit of leaving the lights on. Ceiling fans in every room to cut down on the AC costs. Insulation in the attic. Throw in a rainwater harvest system for maintaining the lawn to conserve water usage. The list goes on, but make sure you look at the ROI before moving forward.
Keep in mind that my background is commercial construction and residential is VERY different. That said, plan the work, and then work the plan. Don't move forward with a change unless everything is in writing. No ticket, no compensation.
It was said above, but since it doesn't sound like you're in construction, don't act as the GC. You don't know enough about the components or the construction methodology to ensure that construction is occuring as it's supposed to.
Make sure you hold retainage on the GC that you hire in case something goes to shit and try to get a warranty on workmanship (commercial is usually a year).
Pick out all of your finishes ahead of time. Tile, Flooring, Paint, Doors, Hardware, Grilles & Diffusers, Millwork. Make sure you get quotes for them in advance so you can compare the contractor quote down the road. One other thing to look into is buying the material in advance as that's one less item that the sub can mark-up or fuck you over on.
Buy a camera and hold weekly inspections, even if they're only on the weekend and then send a list of deficiencies when you're done. You don't have to walk-through with the builder, but him knowing that you're there every weekend inspecting the work will help shift his ass. That and you've got proof if something fails. Contractors will complain about anything and everything, but when you give them a photo and email documentation showing you brought up the issue they'll shut up ricky-tick. Never fails.
As far as sustainability goes, make sure you put your money into something useful, not a gimmick. Solar is cool, but it's a fucking black hole and not worth it in my opinion. Geothermal drilling to offset the cost of heating and cooling is a much better solution for your money. Put instant water heaters in bathrooms that will rarely be used, that way you can get a smaller tank and cut down on heating costs. Indirect flourescent strips on dimmers for the kitchen and bathrooms along with built in motion detectors if you have a habit of leaving the lights on. Ceiling fans in every room to cut down on the AC costs. Insulation in the attic. Throw in a rainwater harvest system for maintaining the lawn to conserve water usage. The list goes on, but make sure you look at the ROI before moving forward.
Keep in mind that my background is commercial construction and residential is VERY different. That said, plan the work, and then work the plan. Don't move forward with a change unless everything is in writing. No ticket, no compensation.
I would also hold some randomly timed inspections as well. Doesn't have to be while they are actually working but if you always go on the weekend make sure you occasionally go during the week as well. It cuts down on the chances of them being able to hurry and cover something up/over before your regular inspections
Fritzo
Lifer
- Jan 3, 2001
- 41,920
- 2,161
- 126
I'm a bit more trusting of people as the builders I dealt with seemed to be happy and enjoy their work. I stopped by with a camera and took pictures mostly to tell where studs and ducts were for future reference.
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,345
- 126
Some more consolidated thoughts....
1) You will want to(if not be required to) own the land outright before approaching for a construction loan. The land will likely be somewhere in the 10%-20% of your homes total value. This is your required equity in being approved to move forward with the construction loans.
2) Construction loans. You'll have to shop around. Banks vs. credit unions...vs bank vs bank vs CU vs CU...they all have different equity requirements, payout methods, interest rates, "gotchas" to cover. Some places will require you to have 80% equity (if you have a $200,000 home contract, you'll need $40,00 in equity/downpayment). Others are only 90%. So on that $200,000 home you'll need $20,000 down.
The construction loan is a temporary loan that intially will cost you very little, and then will continue to increase as more draws are made on it. It's based on a 30 year amortization and will have a higher rate than a mortgage.
For example:
1st draw will come after the foundation is in. Say, $40,000 for excavation and pour/blocking of foundation and rough in plumbing of basement. So you'll be paying like $200 a month until the next pull. That will come after framing, which is around 1/3 of your total contract price. So if it's a $200,000 home you are talking around another $60,000. Now you have a construction loan of around $100,000 you are paying on. Now you are around $500 a month.
You might have a 3rd pull after the electrical, plumbing, and drywall is in, taking your loan up to $150,000 and then a final pull happens when you sign off and roll into a conventional loan.
3) Costs to consider. You say you want to build in the country. Fine. You have to consider the costs of doing so. You'll be likely on a well, will be on septic, and will have to figure out if natural gas is available and how close the electrical run is. A well is going to run you anywhere from $5,000 for a shallow well to over $25,000 or more if you have to drill deep. Septic is going to run you between $5,000 and $8,000. If electric is not near you are looking at several thousand, if not tens of thousands of dollars to have it trenched and terminated at your lot. Then you have other considerations like trees, access, drainage, and elevations to figure out before putting house on the lot. You could easily have $100,000 invested before the hole for the house is even dug.
4) Builders/GM's.
There's three main types of builders.
1 - They show you a plan and build what they want. Very little customizing outside of carpet, flooring, cabinet and paint colors.
2 - Semi-custom. They have a set of plans that they like to work off of and will let you tweak room sizes, give you control over most things like siding, flooring, fixtures, window styles and sizes, ceiling height, door styles, ect.
3 - Full custom. They will build you a home exactly as you want, even if it's a disaster.
Sweet spot is a competent builder in the 2nd option. That's what we did. There were simply a lot of things that I didn't know what I wanted or how I wanted and I deferred to the framers/general on what to do. They had built over 800 houses...I was on my first. I simply didn't know what was appropriate in some situations. Most of the time I was very happy with their suggestions. There's a few I would do over again having lived in the house.
5) General suggestions....go shopping. Hit up open houses, house parades, ect. Look through houses and understand what is important to you. Do your homework and figure out what that type of setup is going to cost you. Cabinets, counters, flooring, ect. All of that adds up. Same with kitchen layouts and bath rooms.
Speaking of bathrooms, unless you or your wife are big bath people, just skip it in the master and put in a huge walk in shower with heads on both sides of the stall. Put in a bench that you can sit on and just relax and enjoy the warmth. That's what I wish I had done. Instead I've got a huge, jetted corner tub that's been used exactly three times in 2.5 years.
Garages - GO BIG. Most builders have like 2' of space between the outter edge of the garage door and the wall. So if you have a car with big car doors you barely have room to open them. Cars have gotten A LOT wider over the years but garage doors haven't. Make your garage *at least* 30 feet deep and give yourself a good 5' of room to each side of a car door. That leaves plenty of space for cars, a few utility shelfs, and your mower and other stuff.
Heating/AC/Insulation. Pay good money now and build it right. I've got a 2x6 studded house, with a ridgid foam wrapping, and enough spray foam to float the titanic. My energy bills are about what a typical house half my sq/ft would be. And that's just with conventional forced air heating/cooling. It would have taken me a long time to recapture the investment on geothermal, if ever. I'm still not *entirely* sold on the tech.
What I would do in a future house though is this...it'll be a large ranch with a 10'+ tall basement that was fully finished. Both basement and main floor would be heated via radiant heat and zoned. If I was in a cold/snow area I'd also go radiant heat in my garage and also do a snow melt inslab setup for my drive way. If you do radiant heat and a primary heater tank to feed your radiant system you would have a very efficient, comfortable setup. If you are expecting snow, you turn on the manifold for the driveway and get it going and never have to lift a shovel. Awesome. Not cheap. But damn nice.
6) Other other things....
Just know what you are getting into. This a year plus long commitment that is incredibly fun, but also incredibly stressful. Know your contractor. Get feed back from prior customers. See how well their place has held up. How easy the GC was to work with. Ect. You'll be talking to this guy multiple times a day for the next year or more.
Don't just plan, *EXPECT* overages. At least 10%, if not 20% more. And that will likely have to be paid in cash at the end. Your construction loan is only approved for a certain amount of money. Going back and re-writing that is very difficult. If you are at the end of the build and your contract/appraisal only accounted for basic porcelain tile @ $2 sq/ft and modest cabinet configuration for $5,000......but your wife now wants a luxury tile pattern that is $9 a sq/ft and a fully framed custom cabinet set for $25,000 that money has to come from somewhere. You can talk to the bank about rolling it into the conventional at the end and cutting the builder the difference back in a seperate check...or you pay it in cash. Regardless, just know that you will go over. Something always comes up. There's something here or there that you want to upgrade. A room that you want to tweak. A wall you want longer. Ect.
Just do your homework on everything. Shop around on quotes. Get feedback from past clients. And figure out what you want, vs what you need and meet somewhere in the middle.
I just hope that you and your wife have similar tastes in things and have the ability to compromise on some areas. It's going to have to happen to make a build successful. Unless you are made of money there are always compromises that will have to happen. Make sure that you are fair to each other. This is where many of the arguments come into play. All disputes that a couple can have are distilled down into a single focal point over the course of a year. Money being the number one. Control and concessions being the second. General stress and anxiety being the third.
Take your time, understand your financial limits, and see if it's practical for your young family. And be sure that what you do down makes sense for your family 5 years from now. Maybe even 10 or more years from now.
1) You will want to(if not be required to) own the land outright before approaching for a construction loan. The land will likely be somewhere in the 10%-20% of your homes total value. This is your required equity in being approved to move forward with the construction loans.
2) Construction loans. You'll have to shop around. Banks vs. credit unions...vs bank vs bank vs CU vs CU...they all have different equity requirements, payout methods, interest rates, "gotchas" to cover. Some places will require you to have 80% equity (if you have a $200,000 home contract, you'll need $40,00 in equity/downpayment). Others are only 90%. So on that $200,000 home you'll need $20,000 down.
The construction loan is a temporary loan that intially will cost you very little, and then will continue to increase as more draws are made on it. It's based on a 30 year amortization and will have a higher rate than a mortgage.
For example:
1st draw will come after the foundation is in. Say, $40,000 for excavation and pour/blocking of foundation and rough in plumbing of basement. So you'll be paying like $200 a month until the next pull. That will come after framing, which is around 1/3 of your total contract price. So if it's a $200,000 home you are talking around another $60,000. Now you have a construction loan of around $100,000 you are paying on. Now you are around $500 a month.
You might have a 3rd pull after the electrical, plumbing, and drywall is in, taking your loan up to $150,000 and then a final pull happens when you sign off and roll into a conventional loan.
3) Costs to consider. You say you want to build in the country. Fine. You have to consider the costs of doing so. You'll be likely on a well, will be on septic, and will have to figure out if natural gas is available and how close the electrical run is. A well is going to run you anywhere from $5,000 for a shallow well to over $25,000 or more if you have to drill deep. Septic is going to run you between $5,000 and $8,000. If electric is not near you are looking at several thousand, if not tens of thousands of dollars to have it trenched and terminated at your lot. Then you have other considerations like trees, access, drainage, and elevations to figure out before putting house on the lot. You could easily have $100,000 invested before the hole for the house is even dug.
4) Builders/GM's.
There's three main types of builders.
1 - They show you a plan and build what they want. Very little customizing outside of carpet, flooring, cabinet and paint colors.
2 - Semi-custom. They have a set of plans that they like to work off of and will let you tweak room sizes, give you control over most things like siding, flooring, fixtures, window styles and sizes, ceiling height, door styles, ect.
3 - Full custom. They will build you a home exactly as you want, even if it's a disaster.
Sweet spot is a competent builder in the 2nd option. That's what we did. There were simply a lot of things that I didn't know what I wanted or how I wanted and I deferred to the framers/general on what to do. They had built over 800 houses...I was on my first. I simply didn't know what was appropriate in some situations. Most of the time I was very happy with their suggestions. There's a few I would do over again having lived in the house.
5) General suggestions....go shopping. Hit up open houses, house parades, ect. Look through houses and understand what is important to you. Do your homework and figure out what that type of setup is going to cost you. Cabinets, counters, flooring, ect. All of that adds up. Same with kitchen layouts and bath rooms.
Speaking of bathrooms, unless you or your wife are big bath people, just skip it in the master and put in a huge walk in shower with heads on both sides of the stall. Put in a bench that you can sit on and just relax and enjoy the warmth. That's what I wish I had done. Instead I've got a huge, jetted corner tub that's been used exactly three times in 2.5 years.
Garages - GO BIG. Most builders have like 2' of space between the outter edge of the garage door and the wall. So if you have a car with big car doors you barely have room to open them. Cars have gotten A LOT wider over the years but garage doors haven't. Make your garage *at least* 30 feet deep and give yourself a good 5' of room to each side of a car door. That leaves plenty of space for cars, a few utility shelfs, and your mower and other stuff.
Heating/AC/Insulation. Pay good money now and build it right. I've got a 2x6 studded house, with a ridgid foam wrapping, and enough spray foam to float the titanic. My energy bills are about what a typical house half my sq/ft would be. And that's just with conventional forced air heating/cooling. It would have taken me a long time to recapture the investment on geothermal, if ever. I'm still not *entirely* sold on the tech.
What I would do in a future house though is this...it'll be a large ranch with a 10'+ tall basement that was fully finished. Both basement and main floor would be heated via radiant heat and zoned. If I was in a cold/snow area I'd also go radiant heat in my garage and also do a snow melt inslab setup for my drive way. If you do radiant heat and a primary heater tank to feed your radiant system you would have a very efficient, comfortable setup. If you are expecting snow, you turn on the manifold for the driveway and get it going and never have to lift a shovel. Awesome. Not cheap. But damn nice.
6) Other other things....
Just know what you are getting into. This a year plus long commitment that is incredibly fun, but also incredibly stressful. Know your contractor. Get feed back from prior customers. See how well their place has held up. How easy the GC was to work with. Ect. You'll be talking to this guy multiple times a day for the next year or more.
Don't just plan, *EXPECT* overages. At least 10%, if not 20% more. And that will likely have to be paid in cash at the end. Your construction loan is only approved for a certain amount of money. Going back and re-writing that is very difficult. If you are at the end of the build and your contract/appraisal only accounted for basic porcelain tile @ $2 sq/ft and modest cabinet configuration for $5,000......but your wife now wants a luxury tile pattern that is $9 a sq/ft and a fully framed custom cabinet set for $25,000 that money has to come from somewhere. You can talk to the bank about rolling it into the conventional at the end and cutting the builder the difference back in a seperate check...or you pay it in cash. Regardless, just know that you will go over. Something always comes up. There's something here or there that you want to upgrade. A room that you want to tweak. A wall you want longer. Ect.
Just do your homework on everything. Shop around on quotes. Get feedback from past clients. And figure out what you want, vs what you need and meet somewhere in the middle.
I just hope that you and your wife have similar tastes in things and have the ability to compromise on some areas. It's going to have to happen to make a build successful. Unless you are made of money there are always compromises that will have to happen. Make sure that you are fair to each other. This is where many of the arguments come into play. All disputes that a couple can have are distilled down into a single focal point over the course of a year. Money being the number one. Control and concessions being the second. General stress and anxiety being the third.
Take your time, understand your financial limits, and see if it's practical for your young family. And be sure that what you do down makes sense for your family 5 years from now. Maybe even 10 or more years from now.
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