Widescreen iPad thoughts (after playing with a Surface 2)

[Kaido]

A little off-topic here, but my buddy picked up at Surface 2 today. The Surface is the Microsoft tablet running Windows 8, which is available in two flavors: non-pro (running R/T, which is the table OS equivalent to iOS) and Pro (which has an i5 CPU and runs full Windows). The R/T version is $450 and the Pro version is a whopping $900. He opted for the R/T version, primarily for doing Exchange & occasional RDP via VPN.

I have to say I'm very impressed, especially for one reason in particular: it's widescreen. Specifically, 16:9 1080p. When the iPad first came out, one of my complaints was that it was not a true widescreen. Once I got one in my hands, I came to appreciate the 4:3 aspect in actual usage and thought that widescreen would actually be garbage. However, after playing with a Surface 2 for an afternoon, widescreen is definitely awesome! It feels REALLY good in your hands - it's spread out wide enough that it's very comfortable to hold, but your thumbs can still cross on the keyboard, and typing is waaaaay easier.

And just some quick discussion points: it came with Office, which was awesome for setting up Outlook etc. However, since it's not running on an x86 Intel-compatible CPU, you can't install a lot of apps. I went to download Chrome and it said no way - go visit the app store. So it looks & feels like Windows, but the compatibility issues can throw you off. He didn't want to spend $900 on the Pro because he would have just gotten a nice laptop instead, and the R/T worked out to be $50 less than a base-model iPad.

The touch input was surprisingly good, especially since a lot of buttons & menus were very tiny. I do not like Windows 8, but I actually really liked it on the Surface 2. There are some various quirks (software numpad was upside down, kickstand now goes to 2 positions instead of one, but that's still kind of weird, etc.), but nothing you can't deal with.

I don't know if Apple will ever do a widescreen tablet, especially since they're pretty set on Retina resolutions, but I definitely would not mind seeing a widescreen model after getting my mitts on the new Surface tablet. I was really surprised at how good it felt in my hands and how natural the input & interface was physically. One of the reasons I'm picking up an iPad Mini Retina is because the full-sized iPad is a bit large & awkward to hold; for whatever reason, the 16:9 Surface layout is just much nicer in the hands. I also like the thinness of the iPad Mini, which is much closer to my Kindle.

I have also played with Windows phones in the past and have found them surprisingly intuitive to use. Not being snide, but it's exactly the kind of smartphone I'd buy for my Grandma - large, easy-to-read buttons with nice visual stuff like scrolling lists of contacts. I wouldn't say no to like the 40-megapixel Lumia with wireless charging! I actually currently prefer my smaller 4S screensize for quick one-handed operation & for tossing in my pocket and whipping it out fast.

I did not get a change to try vertical mode other than with the tiles "Metro" interface on Windows. To me, vertical 16:9 looks a bit squished. I'd like to test out a PDF or read some websites like Engadget on it before I make more comments, but it seemed a bit too thin - horizontal use definitely was the best setup with this device. With the iPad, widescreen is great for games & movies, which vertical is great for surfing websites. So there's pros & cons to each screen type.

So just throwing this out there for discussion. I was not prepared to like the Surface 2 as much as I did, particularly as far as the physical widescreen layout went. I think that combined with like Swiftkey or Swype would be the bomb. I really liked typing on the widescreen a whole lot better than I do on the iPad. Saving my pennies for the Mini Retina tho, so no Surface tablet in my immediate future

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

I'm far more impressed with Win RT and Win 8.1 than WP8.

I honestly feel the iPad is very limited compare to the Surface. For me, the decision was a no brainer for getting a Surface over the iPad. The web browser is awesome and alleviates a lot of the app concerns.

Honestly I think MSFT has a winner with the Surface line. As the apps start coming, IMHO we will really start to see the benefits of having the full blown NT kernel running under the hood.

 

[Ravynmagi]

I'm far more impressed with Win RT and Win 8.1 than WP8.

I honestly feel the iPad is very limited compare to the Surface. For me, the decision was a no brainer for getting a Surface over the iPad. The web browser is awesome and alleviates a lot of the app concerns.

Honestly I think MSFT has a winner with the Surface line. As the apps start coming, IMHO we will really start to see the benefits of having the full blown NT kernel running under the hood.

I kinda feel the opposite. Windows RT seems kinda pointless. It can't run x86 apps and still has a very small app selection. So unless running Office on a tablet is the primary goal (seems like a laptop would be better for that), then it seems like people would be much better off with a Windows 8.1 tablet like a Dell Venue Pro or something along those lines. At least the iPad has a huge app selection.

 

[Eug]

1. I prefer 4:3 actually, for a mainly surfing machine, which is what I use our iPad for. In landscape mode, there is more vertical space.

2. I don't use Outlook, ever. I don't even use it at work, much to the dismay of my workplace as our entire workplace is Outlook based. For important meetings and such I forward the events to myself for use in iCloud Calendar, or sometimes even enter them manually.

3. I don't use Office or anything comparable on my tablets. I do real work on my laptop and desktop. I did start using an Apple bluetooth keyboard with the iPad but that only lasted a couple of days, because it's a hassle to use it with the iPad as it's a completely separate keyboard. I just ordered a Logitech wireless keyboard cover, which is analogous to Surface's keyboard cover but non-flexible with a reportedly much better keyboard feel (I guess like a Type Cover), but it's still a reduced-size keyboard. The point is not to do significant Office work on it, but mainly so it's easier to type for AnandTech forums, etc. I'm typing on a 13.3" MacBook right now, despite the fact I have a Nexus 7 next to me. Sure, it'd be nice to have Office on my tablets, but honestly I haven't missed it. I use Keynote as well for work and I have never ever felt the desire to run it on my iPad. That may change over time.

4. I'm still waiting for that 12" MacBook Retina from Apple. Despite having two tablets in this house, I am salivating for that next machine. 10" is too small for work, because of the screen size and because of the max keyboard size.

---

I guess the point is I have different needs that are satisfied by products of different sizes.

Productivity: 12" and up.
Internet surfing: Any size down to 7", but 10"-13" preferred. Can be done on a phone, but it's a bit annoying on a phone.
Media consumption: Any size to 7". Can be done on a phone, but it's a bit annoying on a phone.
Carry-all device 24/7: Phone, with max size 4.3". Anything bigger is annoying to use one-handed.

So, this is my current usage:

13" MacBook Pro: Office and iWork, internet surfing, occasional video watching.
iPad 2: Internet surfing.
Nexus 7: Internet surfing, occasional video watching.
iPhone 5s: Internet surfing in a pinch, since I always have it with me.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

I kinda feel the opposite. Windows RT seems kinda pointless. It can't run x86 apps and still has a very small app selection. So unless running Office on a tablet is the primary goal (seems like a laptop would be better for that), then it seems like people would be much better off with a Windows 8.1 tablet like a Dell Venue Pro or something along those lines. At least the iPad has a huge app selection.

RT is the future of windows. The old win32 API is going to become the legacy environment ala dos.

 

[mmntech]

Both the Surface RT and iPad have their strengths and weaknesses, and I think it depends really on what you're using it for.

The Surface is more of a productivity device, and works well in a business environment since it supports the Microsoft Office Suite. Though why any business still wastes their money on proprietary software is beyond me. I can't stress enough how much I really hate Outlook. I also hate the idea of having to log in to MS servers all the time. I trust them with my data even less than I trust Apple.

Metro is a very good tablet interface. However, I think the duality of the desktop OS, while good on paper, doesn't apply well to the real world. It can't run x86 apps, nor is it really powerful enough to do any serious work even if it could. The real benefit here though is having a file manager. Something competitors do not have. The Surface 2 Pro is a bit of a different story. However, given it's price, you're better off with the MacBook Air. Same internals, same price, better battery life, full OS, proper keyboard.

iOS on the other hand, on the iPad, feels closer to a mobile phone experience than a laptop computer. Which I also feel is something that's better on paper than in the real world. The iPad Air has some incredible hardware. You just can't tweak it, or install your own apps. You're limited to what Apple thinks you should be doing with it. Which limits the scope of the device a great deal. It works for the numpties who click every .exe file emailed to them. For power users though, you have to jailbreak to do your own thing. Which becomes limited with every OS update. Even just to get a file browser and use an SD card for storage requires you to hack the device. Not so with Android and Windows RT.

 

[Eug]

By mainstream criteria I betcha half the people at AnandTech are "power users". Despite that, iOS tablets are very popular here, and judging by the posts here, the vast majority are not jail broken.

The power users just use other devices as well, specifically laptops, when needed.

 

[Kaido]

1. I prefer 4:3 actually, for a mainly surfing machine, which is what I use our iPad for. In landscape mode, there is more vertical space.

Have you gotten a hands-on with the widescreen Surface 2 yet? That was my reaction as well, until I played with one in-person. It's too skinny vertically to be of much use, but horizontally is awesome! Felt really really good in my hands.

Although playing with my buddy's new iPad Air dashed any dreams of that. It's so thin & light that it's not even funny. If you've played with an iPad Mini, it's basically just a jumbo-sized iPad Mini now. Feels like the same weight & thickness as the Mini, just a larger screen. Incredible. I was blown away by playing with it, because I was prepared not to care at all haha.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Can your iPad air split screen apps. Can it multitask? Can you have pandora running in te background and hop over to a website and play a YouTube video without pandora pausing itself, forcing you to go back to the app and start it again? Can you download torrents and shove content straight to the iPad via USB?

All these kinds of things are highly annoying to me. IOS works great at the phone level because I rarely would want to do the above on my phone. A the tablet level it is incredibly limiting and rather frustrating to use, despite the nice HW. Go legitimately play with a S2 or SP2 for a few days, you will never go back. This is coming from a guy would had an iPad 3 for years and loved it.

 

[Rakehellion]

Can you have pandora running in te background and hop over to a website and play a YouTube video without pandora pausing itself

Why would you want that?

 

[Rakehellion]

Can your iPad air split screen apps. Can it multitask? Can you have pandora running in te background and hop over to a website and play a YouTube video without pandora pausing itself, forcing you to go back to the app and start it again? Can you download torrents and shove content straight to the iPad via USB?

For those things, I'll jus use a real computer because it has ten times the processor power and memory. Torrents? That means you'll need to be plugged in and on wifi, which defeats the purpose of having a tablet.

 

[Rakehellion]

I have to say I'm very impressed, especially for one reason in particular: it's widescreen. Specifically, 16:9 1080p.

The Surface is 1920x1080. The iPad is 2048x1536. The Surface screen could fit inside an iPad.

Widescreen is good for watching movies, but I don't see how a lower resolution display makes website reading easier instead of harder.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

For those things, I'll jus use a real computer because it has ten times the processor power and memory. Torrents? That means you'll need to be plugged in and on wifi, which defeats the purpose of having a tablet.

Wrong. These are basic things that most people *would* do on their iPads if they actually had the choice. The bottom line is anyone using an iPad is forced to compromise and deal with it, and they do.

At this point the iPad basically has a desktop class processor inside of it, so your argument is rather moot. Really what is the point of continually making the iPad faster if the OS can hardly take advantage of any of it.

This is why I believe MSFT made the right choice in unifying their OS's early on. They have a massive headstart as tablets/phones get more and more powerful each and every year. Pretty soon our expectations for tablets will be no different than a laptop/PC/etc.

 

[TreVader]

I am actually very impressed with the Surface Pro 2, not so much the regular Surface 2. I don't see it as having anything that you can't get on an iPad.


The Surface Pro/ Pro 2 are both so much more functional than the iPad it kinda makes me wonder who could possibly justify buying a 128GB LTE iPad when functionally the Surface Pro 2 blows it out of the water. The only real advantage the iPad has is battery life (which is, admittedly, a very big advantage).


I already have a macbook air and a macbook pro so there is no reason for me to pay extra for the functionality of an ultra book in a tablet, but for anybody who doesn't have a laptop and wants a tablet the Surface Pro 2 is some amazing stuff.

It still wouldn't be a good idea for apple to make it's own version of the Surface Pro because they'd eat into both the iPad and macbook air sales.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

I am actually very impressed with the Surface Pro 2, not so much the regular Surface 2. I don't see it as having anything that you can't get on an iPad.


The Surface Pro/ Pro 2 are both so much more functional than the iPad it kinda makes me wonder who could possibly justify buying a 128GB LTE iPad when functionally the Surface Pro 2 blows it out of the water. The only real advantage the iPad has is battery life (which is, admittedly, a very big advantage).


I already have a macbook air and a macbook pro so there is no reason for me to pay extra for the functionality of an ultra book in a tablet, but for anybody who doesn't have a laptop and wants a tablet the Surface Pro 2 is some amazing stuff.

It still wouldn't be a good idea for apple to make it's own version of the Surface Pro because they'd eat into both the iPad and macbook air sales.

The SP2 gets over 8 hrs battery life on anands latest tests. Honestly once you get into the 8-12 hr range its all kinds moot. That's good enough to last all day and most people will plug in overnight.

 

[Kaido]

The Surface is 1920x1080. The iPad is 2048x1536. The Surface screen could fit inside an iPad.

Widescreen is good for watching movies, but I don't see how a lower resolution display makes website reading easier instead of harder.

1. It's not about the resolution, the point is about how a physically-widescreen device feels in your hand. I was surprised to learn that it feels great.

2. 1080p on 10" is awesome. Retina is better. But 1080p is still awesome. Most 15.6" budget laptops come with a 1366x768, so going 5" smaller and boosting the resolution up 500 pixels is still not bad.

3. After playing with the iPad Air, I don't think you can beat the Air. So lightweight & thin that it's just stupid.

My point is simply that the widescreen feels very nice in your hands, physically. I liked holding it better than an iPad and I liked using the keyboard in landscape mode WAY better. However, it's not without its shortcomings - too skinny to use vertically, for one. As you mentioned, not Retina resolution either. And per point #3, the Air is incredible. The Air is a Star Trek tablet, it's what tablets are meant to be - great battery life, great screen resolution, nearly weightless, super thin. Definitely will be buying an Air!

 

[Kaido]

I am actually very impressed with the Surface Pro 2, not so much the regular Surface 2. I don't see it as having anything that you can't get on an iPad.


The Surface Pro/ Pro 2 are both so much more functional than the iPad it kinda makes me wonder who could possibly justify buying a 128GB LTE iPad when functionally the Surface Pro 2 blows it out of the water. The only real advantage the iPad has is battery life (which is, admittedly, a very big advantage).


I already have a macbook air and a macbook pro so there is no reason for me to pay extra for the functionality of an ultra book in a tablet, but for anybody who doesn't have a laptop and wants a tablet the Surface Pro 2 is some amazing stuff.

It still wouldn't be a good idea for apple to make it's own version of the Surface Pro because they'd eat into both the iPad and macbook air sales.

That's what threw me off about R/T - looks & feels just like Windows, can't run Windows apps. This is why they have such a high return rate - people buy them thinking they can run all of their current software, but they can't. And not too many people want to pay $900 for the computer version of the Surface 2 when they can buy a touchscreen Ultrabook or something for cheaper.

Still, it was a surprise that it felt good in my hands. I was impressed. I can't really see any particular "need" I would have for a Surface 2 or Pro ever, but it's not something that I would say no to anymore if offered!

 

[Kaido]

Wrong. These are basic things that most people *would* do on their iPads if they actually had the choice. The bottom line is anyone using an iPad is forced to compromise and deal with it, and they do.

Yes, I agree with this - if you could run regular apps on your iPad, I think most people would. But the beauty lies in the simplicity - use apps & then done. You can RDP or VNC into a PC if you need more horsepower, and there are enough creative apps (Airprint, Dropbox, QuickOffice, etc.) to let you find a workaround that you can be fine most of the time.

I do like Windows phones - simple & easy to use. Wouldn't trade my 4S for one, but again, not something I'd say no to otherwise. I think Microsoft has the right idea unifying the experience across devices, so that once you learn one, you learn them all; the only hangup was having the R/T tablet not marketed as not running Windows programs (= high return rate), but they have that partially solved now by having a PC version with a real CPU in there.

I think Microsoft is looking into a future where ARM rules the world - perhaps similar to GPU's, where you have thousands of cores doing the parallel processing at low temps & low energy requirements. Nvidia's GTX 690 already has 3,072 CUDA cores in it, and I've read rumors of Apple experimenting with an ARM-based Macbook Air. Imagine a laptop with a 24-hour battery life that never gets hot...definitely a possibility for the future!

 

[Rakehellion]

Wrong. These are basic things that most people *would* do on their iPads if they actually had the choice. The bottom line is anyone using an iPad is forced to compromise and deal with it, and they do.

I guess. But if I wanted to do those things, I'd use a MacBook air. The reason the iPad gets its 10+ hour battery life is because it doesn't allow some of those things.

At this point the iPad basically has a desktop class processor inside of it, so your argument is rather moot. Really what is the point of continually making the iPad faster if the OS can hardly take advantage of any of it.

"Desktop class" is a meaningless marketing term. A real desktop chip is still 10x the speed of the A7, not to mention having 8x the memory.

 

[Kaido]

I guess. But if I wanted to do those things, I'd use a MacBook air. The reason the iPad gets its 10+ hour battery life is because it doesn't allow some of those things.

And really, that's what gets me - the Air is so close to the iPad in terms of how it feels in your hand for thickness & size, why not just get an Air and do desktop stuff if you're going to get a keyboard anyway? (other than cost) That is what is kind of silly to me about the Surface R/T - a dumb kickstand (first-gen apparently only had one position & the second-gen only has two angles), a hard or soft keyboard optional, and then the tablet. I guess it's handy to type on & then detach, but if you're going to use it to type on a lot, why not just get an 11" or 13" Ultrabook or Macbook Air?

I'm still holding out for a 13" Macbook Air Retina

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

First off the Air has one of the worst screens I've ever used in a high end ultrabook. Don't care how many hours battery life it gets, that screen is absolutely god awful. I returned my unit after one day, couldn't live with that ugly POS.

I have a SP2 and have no regrets. You really hate going back to nontouch laptops after.

 

[Kaido]

First off the Air has one of the worst screens I've ever used in a high end ultrabook. Don't care how many hours battery life it gets, that screen is absolutely god awful. I returned my unit after one day, couldn't live with that ugly POS.

I have a SP2 and have no regrets. You really hate going back to nontouch laptops after.

Makes me curious if Apple will go with a detachable touchscreen on the next-gen Airs with Retina screens. I don't really see them doing it, since they like to drag out their updates to maximize profits (i.e. no Retina upgrade last month with the other MBP's), but it would be cool to have an 11" & 13" widescreen iPad with a keyboard that runs a real OS.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Makes me curious if Apple will go with a detachable touchscreen on the next-gen Airs with Retina screens. I don't really see them doing it, since they like to drag out their updates to maximize profits (i.e. no Retina upgrade last month with the other MBP's), but it would be cool to have an 11" & 13" widescreen iPad with a keyboard that runs a real OS.

I don't anticipate the Macbook line ever receiving touch screens.

They will simply keep iterating the iPads and iOS until they have most of the functionality that is available in OSX.