Why's it illegal to download tv shows?

[AMCRambler]

I've been wondering about this. Since they are broadcasting these shows, why is it illegal to digitize a show and put it on the web on a peer to peer network? It's kind of like making a tape of a song on the radio and giving it to your friend. Only reason I can come up with is that the commercials are edited out of the copies on the p2p networks thus changing the material from it's original form. If anything though, I'd think the major networks would start hosting the files of their tv shows on their sites with the commercials and everything. I'd much rather go to a nice website and download a show at a fast download speed even if it did have commercials. Anyone care to elighten me?

 

[Goosemaster]

It's not so much that it isn't not like maybe illegal but that bittorrent is so easy to use:beer:

 

[rh71]

Still not sure if there's any truth to this but I've read that it's ok as long as the show has been out of syndication for 2 years. So downloading current episodes is a no-no.

As to your proposal, you can fastforward downloadable movies. They would have to stream it (and that in itself does not always prevent downloads)... streaming costs $$$.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
It's not so much that it isn't not like maybe illegal but that bittorrent is so easy to use:beer:

wtf did you just say?

 

[isasir]

Networks want you to watch the show while it's airing on TV. Obviously part of that is due to commercials, but also, Nielson ratings, which affect the amounts they can charge advertisers, is dependent on the # of people that watch the show.

While I can see the possibility of putting it online, and maybe working out something where the amount of downloads affects advertising rates, it just seems like a huge hassle (bandwith, collecting information, protecting it so commercials can't be removed, etc.), that they just prefer things the way they are.

 

[purbeast0]

also, since it is illegal, why is it allowed to be spoken about on these forums, yet if someone brings up software piracy its bannable material?

not trying to start a flameware, i am seriously wondering.

and YES i realize you have to pay for software and NOT pay for local TV, but piracy is piracy.

 

[Gibson486]

TV shows are owned by their respected networks...so for someone else to use them for ANY reason, money has to be involved. By uses a P2P, no money is involved, and no one gets paid. To make matters even worse, shows are coming out on DVD.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
also, since it is illegal, why is it allowed to be spoken about on these forums, yet if someone brings up software piracy its bannable material?

not trying to start a flameware, i am seriously wondering.

and YES i realize you have to pay for software and NOT pay for local TV, but piracy is piracy.

we're just discussing legalities, not discussing where to get them (even though some of those threads get thru the mods).

All the mods are doing is CYA on behalf of AT.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
It's not so much that it isn't not like maybe illegal but that bittorrent is so easy to use:beer:

wtf did you just say?

The legality of this action almsot never seems to come to question because the use of bittorrent is so prevalent and, frankly, so easy for the user.

I was just posting this to demonstrate the uncertainty that has developed over this issue due to the fact that getting episodes is so easy

ie

"getting mp3s is so easy that it COULDN't be illegal


<--pointing out the feebleness and smallmindedness of the average internet user

 

[Scarpozzi]

Do you think anyone that tapes NFL games gets the written consent of the NFL? Sheesh....it's a law so you can't turn around and sell episodes that the networks bought to have people not watch tv. The networks want to make money off the advertisements. The only reason networks even buy TV shows is to get more viewers to see the commercials.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: purbeast0
also, since it is illegal, why is it allowed to be spoken about on these forums, yet if someone brings up software piracy its bannable material?

not trying to start a flameware, i am seriously wondering.

and YES i realize you have to pay for software and NOT pay for local TV, but piracy is piracy.

we're just discussing legalities, not discussing where to get them (even though some of those threads get thru the mods).

All the mods are doing is CYA on behalf of AT.

im not talking about mentioning where to find them.

i am talking about mentioning that you "missed LOST to watch Smallville so I am going to DL it tonight and watch it tomorrow" type comments that users say.

if one user was to say that, nothing would happen to them. i have seen it PLENTY of times. if one was to say "Oh GTA:SA came out today but I didnt have time to buy it and only bought Halo 2, I think i'm going to just download it tongiht and play it tomorrow" that would result in a ban most likely.

i am just wondering the reasons of this.

 

[isasir]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
im not talking about mentioning where to find them.

i am talking about mentioning that you "missed LOST to watch Smallville so I am going to DL it tonight and watch it tomorrow" type comments that users say.

if one user was to say that, nothing would happen to them. i have seen it PLENTY of times. if one was to say "Oh GTA:SA came out today but I didnt have time to buy it and only bought Halo 2, I think i'm going to just download it tongiht and play it tomorrow" that would result in a ban most likely.

i am just wondering the reasons of this.

Well I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that TV downloads hasn't been fully addressed by the TV networks as to how illegal it is.

At this point, everyone knows that d/ling software is illegal. When mp3s first came out, it was wildly distributed. Only when the RIAA made it clear it was a no-no, did talking about something like Napster become an issue on the forums. Then, when allofmp3 came out, and no one knew really what to make of it's legality, I believe it was (and still is?) ok to mention on the forums. Now of course, we have Itunes and other legal d/ling software, so it's pretty much ok again to talk d/ling mp3s.

 

[Gibson486]

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
Do you think anyone that tapes NFL games gets the written consent of the NFL? Sheesh....it's a law so you can't turn around and sell episodes that the networks bought to have people not watch tv. The networks want to make money off the advertisements. The only reason networks even buy TV shows is to get more viewers to see the commercials.

Ever watch Family Guy?

 

[AMCRambler]

I agree with all the points about the advertising end of things and Nielsen ratings. But if I can't watch a show that is on during the week, then they dont get their Nielsen ratingsanyway, and they dont get to include me in the number of viewers to charge for advertising. Now if they put the episode online as well as aired it on tv, then they could include all the people that would download it as part of their audience. Granted they would need to find a way to keep the files from being edited to cut out commercials etc, but how hard is that? They make a proprietary video format that only their player will play, and it has no fast forward. Seems pretty simple to me. Instead of fighting this, they should be trying to exploit this new media format that has been ushered in by broadband connections.

 

[EyeMWing]

Originally posted by: AMCRambler
I agree with all the points about the advertising end of things and Nielsen ratings. But if I can't watch a show that is on during the week, then they dont get their Nielsen ratingsanyway, and they dont get to include me in the number of viewers to charge for advertising. Now if they put the episode online as well as aired it on tv, then they could include all the people that would download it as part of their audience. Granted they would need to find a way to keep the files from being edited to cut out commercials etc, but how hard is that? They make a proprietary video format that only their player will play, and it has no fast forward. Seems pretty simple to me. Instead of fighting this, they should be trying to exploit this new media format that has been ushered in by broadband connections.

That would be the semi-intelligent way of doing things.

The TV industry isn't run by even mildly intelligent people. It's been proposed by underlings BILLIONS of times, though, but none of the bosses will give it a look because it looks like they're condoning it.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
also, since it is illegal, why is it allowed to be spoken about on these forums, yet if someone brings up software piracy its bannable material?

not trying to start a flameware, i am seriously wondering.

and YES i realize you have to pay for software and NOT pay for local TV, but piracy is piracy.

I feel differently about the piracy between software and television though, as software is commercially available. You can go to the store and buy it pretty much whenever you want to. The majority of TV shows aren't available for purchase, so if you miss the show, odds are you might not see it again. I'm not saying that makes it in any way more or less illegal, but AFAIC, if it can't be purchased, it's not stealing.

 

[0roo0roo]

when it comes out on dvd then its piracy.
encoding without commercials is sorta piracy too. if they left em in..wouldn't be much to be said againsat it really

 

[tfbrown69]

A close friend of mine got the C&amp;D letter fwd'd to him by his ISP: How Sad,the new battlestar galactica (which by the way is an awesome series) is only being aired in the UK. ...we can`t see it here until January...

Subject: Takedown Notification [Notice ID: XXX]
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2004 01:23:45 -0800
To: abuse@XXXXXXXXXX
From: nbcuniversaltv@copyright-compliance.com

Re: Unauthorized Use of USA Cable Entertainment LLC
Notice ID: XXXX

Dear Sir or Madam:

USA Cable Entertainment LLC are the exclusive owners of copyrights in many
motion pictures, including the motion pictures and television properties listed
below.

It has come to our attention that XXXXX is the service provider
for the IP address listed below, from which unauthorized copying and
distribution (downloading, uploading, file serving, file "swapping" or other
similar activities) of USA Cable Entertainment LLC motion picture(s) and
television properties listed below is taking place. We believe that the
Internet access of the user engaging in this infringement is provided by
XXXX or a downstream service provider who purchases this
connectivity from XXXX.

This unauthorized copying and distribution constitutes copyright infringement
under Section 106 of the U.S. Copyright Act . Depending upon the type of
service XXXXX is providing to this IP address, it may have legal
and/or equitable liability if it does not expeditiously remove or disable
access to the Infringement listed below, or if it fails to implement a policy
that provides for termination of subscribers who are repeat infringers (see, 17
U.S.C. 512).

Despite the above, USA Cable Entertainment LLC believes that the entire
Internet community benefits when these matters are resolved cooperatively. We
urge you to take immediate action to stop this infringing activity and inform
us of the results of your actions. We appreciate your efforts toward this
common goal.

The undersigned has a good faith belief that the use of the property(ies) in
the manners described herein is not authorized by USA Cable Entertainment LLC,
its agents or the law. The information contained in this notification is
accurate. Under penalty of perjury, the undersigned is authorized to act on
behalf of USA Cable Entertainment LLC with respect to this matter.

Please be advised that this letter is not and is not intended to be a complete
statement of the facts or law as they may pertain to this matter or of USA
Cable Entertainment LLC positions, rights or remedies, legal or equitable, all
of which are specifically reserved.

Very truly yours,

Sarah Bergman
BayTSP, Inc. :: Compliance Manager
PO Box 1314
Los Gatos, CA 95031
v: 408-341-2300
f: 408-341-2399
nbcuniversaltv@copyright-compliance.com

Title: Battlestar Galactica (2004) S01E6 - Litmus
Infringement Source: BitTorrent
Initial Infringement Timestamp: 1 Dec 2004 01:23:45 GMT
Recent Infringment Timestamp: 1 Dec 2004 01:23:45 GMT
Infringer Username:
Infringing Filename: battlestar.galactica.s01e06.vcd-fanta.[BT].mpg
Infringing Filesize: 436216730
Infringers IP Address: xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Infringers DNS Name: host.provider.com
Infringing URL:
xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:6881/battlestar.galactica.s01e06.vcd-fanta.[BT].m

 

[ElFenix]

it's illegal because Congress said so.

 

[glen]

Who ever said it was illegal to download TV shows?

 

[thomsbrain]

because it is copyrighted material and you don't own the copyright or a license to it. it is illegal to give a tape of a song on the radio to your friend, too. not that they can stop you, but apparently you're too young to remember the fuss the recording companies put up when philips first introduced the cassette tape. they thought it would destroy the industry. it's no wonder MP3 pisses them off, it's like a great-sounding cassette tape that you can send to a million friends all at once.

 

[Monkey muppet]

OK we all seem to be talking about downloading TV shows where the network would earn the revenue from the number of people watching the adverts. ie: If 10million people watched a show then tan advert slot would cost $xxxx amount but if there were only 1million viewers then the advert slot would cost a lot less.

Just to play devils advacote:

There is a network where no adverts are shown - Therefore where is the moral dillema from recording off this network???????

 

[Trygve]

This isn't the whole answer by any means, but it's something to keep in mind:

I negotiate distribution deals for program content. The different markets (theatrical, home video, PPV, pay cable, free cable, broadcast) within a territory are often split apart and licensed to different distributors, none of whom have the right to distribute the programming by any methods other than what they have licenses. In many cases, a TV network can't authorize you to distribute their programming over the net because they don't have the right to do it themselves, so they can't assign it to you. In 95% of the contracts I do, nobody gets the internet distribution rights, because that kills the potential of selling in other markets and territories. Even if you signed a contract agreeing to distribute the content over the net only in the US, it's very likely that the existence of that license agreement would kill any foreign distribution deals, or at least significantly reduce the amount of money the copyright holder would receive in such a deal.

There's the further consideration that the licensing of the program elements may be themselves limited to certain distribution channels or that there is an associated fee structure with residuals being paid to the actors and/or the copyright holders of music used in the program. The accounting for such residuals is handled as a matter of course when broadcasting the program; it cannot be handled adequately if it's shared over the net. And, as mentioned above, they may have the rights to broadcast the program with the associated music...but they would not have the rights to use the music if it were distributed by other means and either the soundtrack would have to be replaced (I'm dealing with that right now with a couple of movies) or new contracts would have to be negotiated.

 

[SuperTool]

What if we start the Church and Religion of Bittorrent. Then the Congress can't stop us from free exercise thereof

 

[IndieSnob]

IIRC, the fair use laws stated that you could record things for use in your own home off legal broadcast, BUT could not distribute or re-broadcast it whether money is involved or not.