who would have known that terrorists were going to use planes AS missiles, instead of just taking hostages, the intelligence community clearly was not ready for this. our intelligence agencies i would think definitely FOR MANY YEARS have known the deadliness of wmds and focused much more on those types of intelligence, which is probably why you haven't seen an attack on american soil. why do you think terrorists would go through so much trouble to hijack planes and suicide themselves, when they could get simply go to iraq and get a few vials of sarin or anthrax and spread it around at the rose bowl or something, possibly affecting at least 100,000 people?
maybe if you think about that, you'd realize something.
yes read that right in the beginning too, keep going.....
"many questions" is what you are looking for, "we have no credible evidence from you, where are they" is generally how it plays out, but go on, you will see for yourself...
What about the terorist camp in northern Iraq? Powell said it was being run by a group with ties to AQ and was being used to teach WMD use. We found the camp, full of AQ, and recipes for WMD and dispersion manuals. You think they are learning about it as a hobby?
I have no doubt they are working on an effective dispersion method.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,265
- 126
I will be first to step up.
If Bush shows the evidence that he said he had and used for the justification of the war. He started the war, and it is for him to justify his actions through PROOF. Now, how long should we give him to provide that which he must already have?
"119. The destruction of the chemical weapons agent mustard gas, which had started
at the end of February, was completed in March 2003. Under UNMOVIC
supervision, Iraq destroyed the 155 mm shells and the mustard gas contained in
them.The shells found in 1997 were stored at a declared location ? the former
Muthanna State Establishment. In total, there were 14 shells, containing
approximately 49 litres of the agent ? four of them had been earlier emptied and
sampled by UNSCOM. The agent was destroyed by chemical reaction and the empty
shells with explosives. Samples taken from the shells showed that mustard gas
produced over 15 years ago was still of high quality ? 97 per cent purity."
you think they didn't?
2. Destruction of additional items identified by UNSCOM after 1994
8. In 1996, UNSCOM found new evidence of chemical production and analytical
equipment and precursor chemicals acquired for chemical weapons purposes still
remaining in Iraq. Many of those items had been exempted from destruction by the Commission in 1995 on the basis of false Iraqi declarations as to their past use or intended purpose. In 1997, UNSCOM designated for destruction and supervised the
disposal of the following newly identified items and materials (see S/1996/848):
? 325 pieces of production equipment (of those, possession of 120 pieces was
only disclosed by Iraq in August 1997);
? 125 pieces of analytical instruments;
? 275 tons of precursor chemicals.
thats AFTER 1994, they found and destroyed more than that before then...
Here is the CIA's Oct 2002 Assessment, I'm sure Bush relied heavily on this
Here is the British Assessment
this:
"And the document
discloses that his military planning allows for some of the WMD to be ready within
45 minutes of an order to use them."
is on page 7.
Want the 2 UN reports from MArch and May of 2003?
Here is the British Assessment
this:
"And the document
discloses that his military planning allows for some of the WMD to be ready within
45 minutes of an order to use them."
is on page 7.
Want the 2 UN reports from MArch and May of 2003?
if they are working on an effective dispersion method, why attack iraq? at least when saddam was in power we knew where all these supposed weapons were, now we have NO idea at all. and what would an effective dispersion mthod be that would be easy to sneak into the country and not destroy the wmd's before dispersion, a super big water hose with accessory fan? if they did happen to get wmd's into the country i foresee maybe 20-30 people dying, but causing much more mass hysteria than actual casualties.
UNRESOLVED DISARMAMENT ISSUES IRAQ?S PROSCRIBED WEAPONS PROGRAMMES
Thirteenth quarterly report of the Executive Chairman of the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission in accordance with paragraph 12 of Security Council resolution 1284 (1999)
30 May 2003United Nations Security Council
Thirteenth quarterly report of the Executive Chairman of the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission in accordance with paragraph 12 of Security Council resolution 1284 (1999)
30 May 2003United Nations Security Council
'Dirty Bomb' Materials & WMD Seized in Georgia ~ Cessium and Nerve Gas Concentrate
They can create the dispersion vehicle anywhere. Pack enough explosives around that in a Uhaul.......
They can create the dispersion vehicle anywhere. Pack enough explosives around that in a Uhaul.......
Originally posted by: Alistar7
We gave Saddam twelve + years.....
so bush should get twelve years as well. wow, the depths....aah nothing
another alistar straw man, never answers questions, but just says something totally off-track.
He suggested we demand instant proof from Bush, I gave you the CIA's offical assessment from Oct of 2002, I gacve you the British Assessment, I gave you the two final reports to the UN security council from inspections teams. That was the intelligence that was relied upon, read it yourself.
He says bush must give what he has now, Saddam had his weapons, but we gave him 12+ years tp give them up, and he never came clean, and yet more time was what he needed according to some.
Bush needs more time too....
He says bush must give what he has now, Saddam had his weapons, but we gave him 12+ years tp give them up, and he never came clean, and yet more time was what he needed according to some.
Bush needs more time too....
thankfully soviet authorites caught him, the US has been working with Soviet officials to combat the sale and spread of materials like this for over ten years there....
Why did you only quote part of the statement Ali?
An UNMOVIC inspection team found 12 undeclared 122 mm chemical
warheads and motors at the Al Ukhaidar ammunition depot (11 of them were
unfilled and 1 filled with water).
But actually filled!!! Yeah, 11 filled with nothing and 1 filled with water.
An UNMOVIC inspection team found 12 undeclared 122 mm chemical
warheads and motors at the Al Ukhaidar ammunition depot (11 of them were
unfilled and 1 filled with water).
you are correct, I did not intenionally leave that out. I apologize, ty for clarifying that.
118. During an inspection on 7 January 2003 of the Al Mamoun site, UNMOVIC
inspectors observed two large propellant casting chambers. Iraq declared that those
casting chambers had originally been acquired for the Badr 2000 project. That was a
proscribed project, and although UNSCOM had supervised the destruction of the
two casting chambers in 1991 Iraq had managed to refurbish them for use in their
current solid propellant missile projects.
?
just read the whole report, then make up your mind, their conclusions state their is no way to validate Iraq's claims, and even if they could, that would still leave not only massive amounts of WMD unaccounted for, but the technology and equipment would still be in place.
118. During an inspection on 7 January 2003 of the Al Mamoun site, UNMOVIC
inspectors observed two large propellant casting chambers. Iraq declared that those
casting chambers had originally been acquired for the Badr 2000 project. That was a
proscribed project, and although UNSCOM had supervised the destruction of the
two casting chambers in 1991 Iraq had managed to refurbish them for use in their
current solid propellant missile projects.
?
just read the whole report, then make up your mind, their conclusions state their is no way to validate Iraq's claims, and even if they could, that would still leave not only massive amounts of WMD unaccounted for, but the technology and equipment would still be in place.
THE ASSESSMENT OF THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT IRAQ?S WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION
CIA's Oct 2002 Assessment
UN UNRESOLVED DISARMAMENT ISSUES IRAQ?S PROSCRIBED WEAPONS PROGRAMMES
Thirteenth quarterly report of the Executive Chairman of the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission in accordance with paragraph 12 of Security Council resolution 1284 (1999)
30 May 2003United Nations Security Council
13. Again, with respect to anthrax, the Commission, as it reported, had strong indications ? but not conclusive evidence ? that all the quantities produced had not been destroyed, and that hence even today such quantities could remain.
There are the facts at debate, the US and british assessment, and the last two UN reports, from march and may of 2003. Notice the UN felt there was still a very likely chance there was still Anthrax left in Iraq in may of 2003....
CIA's Oct 2002 Assessment
UN UNRESOLVED DISARMAMENT ISSUES IRAQ?S PROSCRIBED WEAPONS PROGRAMMES
Thirteenth quarterly report of the Executive Chairman of the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission in accordance with paragraph 12 of Security Council resolution 1284 (1999)
30 May 2003United Nations Security Council
13. Again, with respect to anthrax, the Commission, as it reported, had strong indications ? but not conclusive evidence ? that all the quantities produced had not been destroyed, and that hence even today such quantities could remain.
There are the facts at debate, the US and british assessment, and the last two UN reports, from march and may of 2003. Notice the UN felt there was still a very likely chance there was still Anthrax left in Iraq in may of 2003....
Originally posted by: SuperTool
If Bush didn't go into Iraq, we would all be speaking Iraqi now.
warning next time please, now I have to wipe my screen off again
(have to remember not to take a sip of pepsi when reading new posts.....)
Powell's evidence consisted of tenuous ties between Baghdad and an Al Qaeda leader, Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, who had allegedly received medical treatment in Baghdad and who, according to Powell, operated a training camp in Iraq specializing in poisons. Unfortunately for Powell's thesis, the camp was located in northern Iraq, an area controlled by the Kurds rather than Saddam and policed by U.S. and British warplanes. One Hill staffer familiar with the classified documents on Al Qaeda tells TNR, "So why would that be proof of some Iraqi government connection to Al Qaeda? [It] might as well be in Iran."
You do realize he was captured, in Baghdad?????
The camp was also there, complete with recipes for WMD and dispersion manuals and dead Al-Queda. They also found chemical protection suits identical to ones issued to regular Iraqi forces, same with the weapons and ammo. Coincidence?
and from the Iraqi Daily News
Ansar al-Islam is a radical Kurdish Islamic group that is supportive of Saddam Hussein's regime. This group is located in the pseudo-autonomous Northern Iraq. This group has ties with Taliban and al-Qaeda. It is the most radical group operating in the Iraqi Kurdistan region.
"According to some reports, the group has received $600,000 from al-Qaeda, and a delivery of weapons and Toyota Land Cruisers. There are also reports stating that Ansar al-Islam received $35,000 from the Mukhabarat branch of Iraqi Intelligence Service, in addition to a considerable quantity of arms."
We also know for a fact Al-Queda was invited to Baghdad for meetings and did attend, although not much is known further on that.
You do realize he was captured, in Baghdad?????
The camp was also there, complete with recipes for WMD and dispersion manuals and dead Al-Queda. They also found chemical protection suits identical to ones issued to regular Iraqi forces, same with the weapons and ammo. Coincidence?
and from the Iraqi Daily News
Ansar al-Islam is a radical Kurdish Islamic group that is supportive of Saddam Hussein's regime. This group is located in the pseudo-autonomous Northern Iraq. This group has ties with Taliban and al-Qaeda. It is the most radical group operating in the Iraqi Kurdistan region.
"According to some reports, the group has received $600,000 from al-Qaeda, and a delivery of weapons and Toyota Land Cruisers. There are also reports stating that Ansar al-Islam received $35,000 from the Mukhabarat branch of Iraqi Intelligence Service, in addition to a considerable quantity of arms."
We also know for a fact Al-Queda was invited to Baghdad for meetings and did attend, although not much is known further on that.
From the UN reports in 2003
In addition, photographic evidence shows that R-400A bombs had been located at Al Walid
Airbase in October 1991. This contradicts the declaration by Iraq that R-400A bombs had only
been deployed to Al Azzizziyah and Airfield 37 and that all such bombs had been destroyed in
July or August 1991.
As it has proved impossible to verify the production and destruction details of R-400 bombs,
UNMOVIC cannot discount the possibility that some CW and BW filled R-400 bombs remain in
Iraq.
30 May 2003United Nations Security Council
13. Again, with respect to anthrax, the Commission, as it reported, had strong
indications ? but not conclusive evidence ? that all the quantities produced had
not been destroyed, and that hence even today such quantities could remain.
Theres the UN telling you they cant be sure they are all gone, and more likely than not, they are still there in may of 2003.
In addition, photographic evidence shows that R-400A bombs had been located at Al Walid
Airbase in October 1991. This contradicts the declaration by Iraq that R-400A bombs had only
been deployed to Al Azzizziyah and Airfield 37 and that all such bombs had been destroyed in
July or August 1991.
As it has proved impossible to verify the production and destruction details of R-400 bombs,
UNMOVIC cannot discount the possibility that some CW and BW filled R-400 bombs remain in
Iraq.
30 May 2003United Nations Security Council
13. Again, with respect to anthrax, the Commission, as it reported, had strong
indications ? but not conclusive evidence ? that all the quantities produced had
not been destroyed, and that hence even today such quantities could remain.
Theres the UN telling you they cant be sure they are all gone, and more likely than not, they are still there in may of 2003.
phillyTIM
Golden Member
- Jan 12, 2001
- 1,942
- 10
- 81
the problem, just as with the war and all the supposed false "finds" after it started, is that everything is based on a probability, or a might have, or a could have, or could have been used, or a possible whatever.
where's the hard evidence? we just raped a country based upon unproven allegations. that's certainly no way to conduct ourselves, and certainly not following the American standard of historical importance: innocent until proven guilty.
show us the money,,,the real deal,,,and make us believers.
where's the hard evidence? we just raped a country based upon unproven allegations. that's certainly no way to conduct ourselves, and certainly not following the American standard of historical importance: innocent until proven guilty.
show us the money,,,the real deal,,,and make us believers.
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