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Why you can't have the death penalty as it exist today Glenn Ford

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I might be in favor of abolishing the death penalty if prison was actually a punishment instead of simply a place to keep criminals separated from society in relative comfort. Say...hard labor in the desert or arctic.
 
QuantumPion said:
I might be in favor of abolishing the death penalty if prison was actually a punishment instead of simply a place to keep criminals separated from society in relative comfort. Say...hard labor in the desert or arctic.
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So being ass-raped by big black men is your definition of "relative comfort"?
 
LunarRay said:
Laws should reflect what is best in our society.
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What is best for society, keep someone in prison forever, for fast track the death penalty?

Instead of abolishing the death penalty, we need to speed things up. Instead of executing one a month like what Texas does, pick that up to one a day, maybe even 2 or 3 a day.

The problem with the death penalty, criminals know they will probably die waiting on appeals. The death penalty is no longer a deterrent to crime because the appeals process takes so long.
 
desy said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...glenn-ford-is-exonerated-and-free/?tid=pm_pop

Again another innocent man is freed after facing death for decades. The pro DP camp says no innocent people have ever been put to death however time and again the Justice system is flawed and I don't buy into collateral damage is OK, ever, its what makes our rule of law the envy of the globe for those that don't have it.
I'm not saying there aren't those deserving of it but that the real world application bar is set too low.
One state cleared 10% of death row inmates with new DNA testing that is a huge rate of error when addressing someone's life
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The innocence project has freed thousands of innocent people in prison, jail and on death row over the years. Just visit their website and read just how many poor mostly non white folks are wrongly convicted. So yes, I truly do believe the system is way beyond flawed when potentially you could have 100s of thousands innocent over the years, and many whom have died wrongfully with death sentences.
 
Jaskalas said:
Given our capacity to screw up, I'm comfortable excluding the DP from all cases except in ones where the "suspect" is absolutely certain. Such as Boston Bombers, Aurora theater, Fort Hood, etc.

Basically people who are caught in the act. No circumstantial cases whatsoever.
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:thumbsup:

If there's any doubt at all, you simply can't.
 
MagickMan said:
:thumbsup:

If there's any doubt at all, you simply can't.
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The problem with absolutely certain is: you're counting on a lot of people to do their jobs really well. Crime labs to not f-up, prosecutors to turn over exonerating evidence, police to be thorough with the investigation, etc. Absolute certainty is a nearly impossible target. And then we'll still need the expensive and drawn out review process to make sure no one fucked up.

so, sure, there's a handful of cases where it looks like there may be absolute certainty. and then there's a bunch of cases where it was absolutely certain, and then it's found out the police botched the investigation and the prosecutors didn't hand over exonerating evidence.
 
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I used to be pro-DP, but I'm now against it. First, there is unfortunately a wide valley between "reasonable doubt" and "absolutely certain this person is guilty." We have seen a scary number (>0) of death row convictions overturned recently because of new evidence. Second, I don't think it is the role of the State to kill its citizens when any alternative exists.
 
Texashiker said:
To start with, if there is any reasonable doubt the jury has to find the person not guilty.
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I'm not talking about reasonable doubt, I'm talking about anything circumstantial at all. In other words, unless the person is caught in the act, the death penalty shouldn't be an option at all. That's how much I (dis)trust our legal system. :colbert:
ElFenix said:
The problem with absolutely certain is: you're counting on a lot of people to do their jobs really well. Crime labs to not f-up, prosecutors to turn over exonerating evidence, police to be thorough with the investigation, etc. Absolute certainty is a nearly impossible target. And then we'll still need the expensive and drawn out review process to make sure no one fucked up.

so, sure, there's a handful of cases where it looks like there may be absolute certainty. and then there's a bunch of cases where it was absolutely certain, and then it's found out the police botched the investigation and the prosecutors didn't hand over exonerating evidence.
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That's what I mean, the handful of cases where there's no doubt the person did it, like the movie theater shooting in Colorado.

bshole said:
So being ass-raped by big black men is your definition of "relative comfort"?
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It takes a really sick fuck to promote and endorse that as a means of punishment for anyone incarcerated. I expect that coming from you, however.
 
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MagickMan said:
That's what I mean, the handful of cases where there's no doubt the person did it, like the movie theater shooting in Colorado.
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If the death penalty has to stay around (a lot of people don't care about the State killing citizens), I think it needs to require the same burden of proof as treason. Two eye witnesses to the same overt act and/or a confession in open court. As we've come to understand since that was written into the Constitution, even that burden of proof is too low, as it depends on the honesty and good memory of witnesses or the honest admission by a suspect who may have been coerced.
 
Texashiker said:
The people who say just to keep the prisoners in prison forever may not realize what the cost is.

As the prison population grows, so will medical care bills.

Who is going to pay for all of that?
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So what's your point? Kill everyone who receives a lengthy prison sentence?
 
QuantumPion said:
I might be in favor of abolishing the death penalty if prison was actually a punishment instead of simply a place to keep criminals separated from society in relative comfort. Say...hard labor in the desert or arctic.
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You must be really fucking stupid if you think prison is comfortable.

Texashiker said:
What is best for society, keep someone in prison forever, for fast track the death penalty?
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If we wanted what is best for society, everyone who supported the death penalty would be exiled to a country that better fits them, with a choice of China, North Korea, or the Middle East. At least the US would be better off.
 
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